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| (555519) | |
LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by Easy on Thu Jan 17 23:20:38 2008 This doesn't seem like it will ever be able to pay for itself, but I guess we'll see.knbc |
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| (555534) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by WillD on Thu Jan 17 23:42:45 2008, in response to LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by Easy on Thu Jan 17 23:20:38 2008. Huh? They're losing 5.5 million dollars to farebeaters, spending 7 million dollars on inspectors, and then are going to spend 12.2 million dollars on maintaining these gates? So only 300,000 dollars will go toward paying back the purchase cost of the gates which should take around 188 years (or they'll pay off about 1/10th of their purchase cost when they're retired in 20 years). I'd say you're right, gox forbid they don't completely eliminate farebeaters, it could head toward 500 years pretty quick. Christ, why not increase the number of fare inspectors and shell out around 10 million dollars a year? You'd save the 56.4 million dollars for the gates, reduce farebeating, and still save money every year relative to the faregates. |
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| (555542) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by Easy on Thu Jan 17 23:58:11 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by WillD on Thu Jan 17 23:42:45 2008. The real reason seems to be that Metro has spent a lot of money to get our smart card - EZ Pass - up and running. Several transit board and city council people have hinted that the reason that it isn't yet up and running is that it won't work without barriers. Supposedly the fare inspectors were to have been given a little portable card reader, but those are either unreliable (dunno) or maybe they realized that they would be too time consuming (for sure). |
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| (555544) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri Jan 18 00:01:23 2008, in response to LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by Easy on Thu Jan 17 23:20:38 2008. Easy ,to me the goal is once again to destroy any hope for any real rail tranist here in los angeles light rail too & the failure of the los angeles transit coalition the damm winmps & its like the destruction of the pacific electric all over again !! once again make and put up as many barriers and obstructions to any real rail tranist progress as much as possible here oh yea ! & target the transit riding public again reduce and destroy rail public transportation for the transit dependent as much as possible & force us sheep back into our personal cars and buses again !!! & raise the vehicle fees and PETRO [ gas - diesel ] costs as sky high as possible crack down on smog checks so only the most rich can afford to drive eventually rip up the rail transit systems again just like in the days of the pacific electric and only just to catch some free loaders riders ?? hell a better investment would be to add more security guards and sheriffs officers etc fare payment check personell ...... i am not making sense aint' I ?? :( |
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| (555551) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by Easy on Fri Jan 18 00:15:02 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri Jan 18 00:01:23 2008. I doubt that they would spend $60 million in order to kill public transit. That doesn't make much sense. If they wanted to kill public transit they would cut back service until it was so inconvenient that people stopped riding. According to Bart Reed they are planning on announcing major bus service cuts very soon and may potentially cut rail service as well. |
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| (555553) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Jan 18 00:22:43 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by WillD on Thu Jan 17 23:42:45 2008. You're right on the money. Excellent analysis.You can't eliminate the security personnel. Maybe you reduce the numbers, maybe not. Even with faregates, you need transit police to patrol the trains and stations and keep a lid on things. So you're not going to save much there. Second, you reduce the boarding efficiency. If ridership climbs sufficiently, faregates slow entry into the system. I propose that the fine for farebeating be increased from $250 to $500 and a second offense become $1,000. |
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| (555567) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri Jan 18 01:09:06 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by Easy on Fri Jan 18 00:15:02 2008. what i am also saying is that it ''seems'' like the same old crap is being brought in slowly to run the transit riders away and it looks like the rail services are going down with it too this is at a time when the rail service should go ^^^^ Up higher and the fares lowered and now waste more money on fare gates having to carry magnetic rail cards ( i hope not paper ) - MARTA, i do hope they are plastic !! now you will have to get a reader machine what about the monthly pass.... with a mag strip too ? i hope they do not do this to buses as well to me public transit is once again under attack and no one cares including the los angeles transit coalition as well thats how it looks to me easy ! not good so much for mr bart reed and his private elite cult that meets at the phellipe original greasy spoon join near chinatown station ! |
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| (555569) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri Jan 18 01:11:25 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Jan 18 00:22:43 2008. why not just hire moretransit police to patrol the trains and stations and keep a lid on things? that would cost much less and get the job done more and lower the fares |
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| (555570) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Jan 18 01:13:36 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri Jan 18 01:11:25 2008. But remind them that picture-taking is OK! |
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| (555571) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri Jan 18 01:29:15 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Jan 18 01:13:36 2008. truei got a lacmta contractor badge which is up to date which i show to them and then get usually left alone i am ignored totally on the blue line except sometimes for the gold line for some strange reason |
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| (555572) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jan 18 01:37:04 2008, in response to LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by Easy on Thu Jan 17 23:20:38 2008. idiots! having more fare checking leads to better on board behavior. Turnstiles do not. The $$ ##'s are clear--a desire for retail therapy w/ public money. |
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| (555573) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Jan 18 01:41:34 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri Jan 18 01:29:15 2008. What kind of work do you do for LAMTA? |
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| (555578) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri Jan 18 02:28:02 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Jan 18 01:41:34 2008. i am a contractorthats a far as i will expain it on this forum or any other one thankz |
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| (555580) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Jan 18 02:31:01 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri Jan 18 02:28:02 2008. So you stole or forged a badge. |
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| (555586) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri Jan 18 03:17:02 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Jan 18 02:31:01 2008. you can say what ever you please some 3000 + miles away from mei do not care what cheap shot you take at me ! what i do with the lacmta here is my business ......lol & go ahead and beleive what ever you want to help yourself i hope it makes you feel good smile :) ha!! ha!! |
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| (555666) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Jan 18 09:13:38 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by Easy on Thu Jan 17 23:58:11 2008. Supposedly the fare inspectors were to have been given a little portable card reader, but those are either unreliable (dunno) or maybe they realized that they would be too time consuming (for sure).Apparently, LACMTA officials never traveled to Boston, where such a system is working, and used with great reliability. |
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| (555774) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Jan 18 12:24:25 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Jan 18 01:13:36 2008. The LACMTA just passed a set of new rules that explicitly state that photography is allowed. |
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| (555799) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by avid reader on Fri Jan 18 13:21:59 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri Jan 18 01:09:06 2008. Hmmmmmmmm. Salaamallah, my good man.If what you say truly does come about, could you put in a good word for the NYCTA and give us a considerable leg up on the competition to get a hold of your soon to be abandon rolling stock? We will treat them well! avid |
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| (555810) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by Easy on Fri Jan 18 13:40:10 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Jan 18 12:24:25 2008. I don't know if that has officially passed yet. Either way I heard that the draft rule was changed after some correspondences with transit groups - specifically The Transit Coalition and Southern California Transit Advocates. The original wording proposed a total ban on any photography without the express permission of LACMTA.I think that SOCTA sent in their letter after the rules allowed non-commercial photography so maybe they misread the rule. |
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| (555812) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by Easy on Fri Jan 18 13:53:43 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Jan 18 09:13:38 2008. Apparently, although we have a lot of people on our light rail trains. It'd be hard to check everyone between stations like they do now. People without a valid ticket will just get off. |
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| (555813) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jan 18 13:58:53 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Jan 18 09:13:38 2008. another proof that the decision is irrational. |
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| (555822) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Jan 18 14:33:39 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Jan 18 12:24:25 2008. If that's true, I'm glad. |
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| (555837) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri Jan 18 15:25:44 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by Easy on Fri Jan 18 13:40:10 2008. Riverside Metrolink ........??.......!!!has a photographic code that is totally illegal and is enforced ????????..........!!!!!!!!!!! he says the head king kong of the ''Transit Coalition''---- at their 4 Riverside Metrolink Stations.? Not Good. wtf banning me from his forum with no valid reason bart reed !! and why are you mr Transit Coalition trying to do something about this ? at riverside metrolink ?? ---------- i am gonna have my own west coast straphangers forum running soon stand by for the exclusive invites for all my GOOD friends what photographic code ?? is it posted ? you mean you will be arrested in riverside for taking metrolink photos at thier stations? wtf ?? this means handcuffs and jail for what felony or misdemeanor ?? california penal dove violation what ?? how much to get bail ? can you have a jury trial or is is traffic court ?? |
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| (555839) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri Jan 18 15:28:02 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by Easy on Fri Jan 18 13:53:43 2008. i wish they could see most of our light rail stations herethis will be a nightmare it would not work in san diego either how about sacrammento ?? did you see it there ?? and denver ?? no ! |
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| (555840) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by Easy on Fri Jan 18 15:29:19 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri Jan 18 15:25:44 2008. I've heard about people not being able to take pictures in Riverside, but I was able to take a couple dozen shots - some right in front of the security guard - with no problem a couple of weeks ago. |
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| (555841) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri Jan 18 15:30:07 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by avid reader on Fri Jan 18 13:21:59 2008. the trolley system should have never been ripped out in nyc !!that was a big mistake just like the pacific electric here remember your history :) |
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| (555845) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri Jan 18 15:37:06 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by Easy on Fri Jan 18 15:29:19 2008. i think then that it is a bunch of bull in riverside and now i seelike you cant take a pic of a DASH bus i think from the insde to the outside but how do you enforce from the streets thje outside to in ?? its somewhere on thier webpage nuts !! lol .........!! |
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| (555846) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri Jan 18 15:37:18 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by Easy on Fri Jan 18 15:29:19 2008. i think then that it is a bunch of bull in riverside and now i seelike you cant take a pic of a DASH bus i think from the insde to the outside but how do you enforce from the streets the outside to in ?? its somewhere on thier webpage nuts !! lol .........!! |
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| (555860) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by Easy on Fri Jan 18 16:16:19 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri Jan 18 15:37:06 2008. I don't think that it's anything to get too upset about. AFAIK that is not the official policy and it's likely some overreaching security guards that are causing the problems. I'm not going to get upset just because someone making $8/hr doesn't know the law. |
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| (555869) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Jan 18 16:42:30 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by Easy on Fri Jan 18 13:53:43 2008. You could have a ticket check upon exit at Union Station for the Gold Line, although that basically has the same effect as a set of faregates. |
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| (555872) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Fri Jan 18 16:44:13 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by Easy on Fri Jan 18 16:16:19 2008. Do the ticket checkers have police powers or are they simply "meter maids"?I think if they pay is low and supervision is lax these people probably disappear and thus the high rate of fare evasion. |
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| (555875) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by Easy on Fri Jan 18 16:52:12 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Jan 18 16:42:30 2008. That would work for the gold line, but you couldn't have the same thing for 7th/metro for the blue line or Imperial/Wilmington for the green line. Too many people. |
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| (555878) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by Easy on Fri Jan 18 16:58:06 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by Mr Mabstoa on Fri Jan 18 16:44:13 2008. More like meter maids. I don't think that evasion is as high as they say, but most of the people caught are teens. They never seem to have any id and I'm pretty sure many if not most of them give false names and addresses.The gold line uses actual sheriff's deputies for most of the checks so they do have police powers. Still there's often the issue of whether or not the person has id. I've never seen anyone actually arrested for not having a ticket. I did once see a guy get so mad at a fare inspector that he threw his token in his general direction. He was arrested two stops later. |
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| (555890) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jan 18 17:20:43 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by Mr Mabstoa on Fri Jan 18 16:44:13 2008. LA County Sheriffs the times I have seen them. Same as in Sacramento--real cops w/ guns and handcuffs. The whole point is enough checkers to make most scofflaws think they will be caught. This is well understood in law enforcement whether parking meters or burglary. |
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| (555898) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by Easy on Fri Jan 18 17:37:06 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jan 18 17:20:43 2008. We have mostly non-police fare checkers. I only see LASD check fares on the gold line and only occasionally the other lines. The fare checkers have no handcuffs or guns. Just radios. |
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| (555957) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jan 18 19:51:35 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by Easy on Fri Jan 18 17:37:06 2008. The guys I saw at Blue/Green transfer (MLK?) were SD's I believe. |
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| (555984) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by Easy on Fri Jan 18 21:21:37 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jan 18 19:51:35 2008. Yeah, there's a LASD substation at that station so they are hanging around there quite often. That station is called Imperial/Wilmington on green line trains and Rosa Parks on blue line trains. I wonder if people get confused? |
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| (555988) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Jan 18 21:28:24 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by Easy on Fri Jan 18 21:21:37 2008. You mean as in Rosa Wilmington or Imperial/Parks? 80) |
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| (556003) | |
Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jan 18 22:00:46 2008, in response to Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by Easy on Fri Jan 18 21:21:37 2008. thanks for reminding me the name. There and at 7th St Red to Blue were the places I saw officers. |
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| (559335) | |
Update (Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates) |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Jan 26 01:43:01 2008, in response to LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates, posted by Easy on Thu Jan 17 23:20:38 2008. The former executive director of Metrolink, Richard Stanger, sent a letter to the LACMTA board that was strongly critical of the study that Metro's consultant prepared regarding the installation of barrier gates. He raised many of the same issues that other advocates have plus some new information. Evidently the barrier gates that metro wants to install are the "tripod turnstile" variety which are the easiest to evade. He calls them to task (like everyone else has) for their poor and misleading math statistics and even dismisses the Homeland Security issues as separate and irrelevant to the barrier system. His entire letter was posted on a blog.For the time being metro has postponed their decision. Hopefully they do the right thing.
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| (559339) | |
Re: Update (Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates) |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Sat Jan 26 02:22:46 2008, in response to Update (Re: LACMTA committee votes for subway barrier gates), posted by Easy on Sat Jan 26 01:43:01 2008. # 1thank you very much for this report ! # 2 this here is madness !!! leave it to the lacmta to mess things up more and more !! what should be done is lower all of the fares and then step up foot security and fare checkers even after this big waste will fall down [ like the breda lrvs' ] lol !! there will always be SOME folks that will try to evade trhe system !! thats life !! this will remain a small number at best !! i can see the rush hours with backups and even some fights what is the los angeles transit coalition doing about this ? thought they were soooo dammed ''involved'' !!! and my [ West Coast Straphangers ] transit message board will be running as soon as i can finish all of mmy forums topics rules etc.. and we will discuss this sure nuff' here !!! i predict this ''fair-gate'' - barriers, will fail and crash hard no 2 wayz bout this !! thankz 
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