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WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Aug 13 23:01:58 2007 This is old, but if this was posted I didn't see it. Looks like late night weekend service may be replaced with buses. That kinda sucks.Night Owls May Need A New Way Home Metro Could Replace Wee-Hour Weekend Trains With Buses By Lena H. Sun and Jonathan Mummolo Washington Post Staff Writers Sunday, August 5, 2007; Page C01 On Fridays at midnight, the platform at Metro Center Station looks a lot like it does at rush hour. Tired workers, sweat dripping from their foreheads, wait for their trains home. The chatter of a group of 20-somethings echoes through the station. And it's crowded -- riders line the platform and fill the benches. Leaning on a trash can among the masses is Charles LaDuca, a 42-year-old government consultant who again pulled a long day at the office and is counting on Metro to get him to his Silver Spring home. Buy This Photo Area college students Emma O'Grady, left, and Alyssia Shmokler plot the best way to get home on Metro after a night out in Washington. (Photos By Pouya Dianat -- The Washington Post) More on Metro Transit Metrorail Decision-Making? Not So Good At Last, Metro Has a Message for 'Escalumps' METRO MEMORIAL FUND: Workers' Daughters Get Money For School Three Red Line Stations Reopen After Security Scare Metro to Consider Other Ways to Get Rid of Birds More Metrorail News Metrorail Extension Performers Appear Today at Metro Stations METRORAIL EXTENSION:Airports Authority Signs Deal to Initiate Transit Project FAIRFAX COUNTY:Supporters of Metro Tunnel Face Uphill Climb With Board :Fairfax Closed Doors for Sessions on Metro Extension Rail Project For Dulles Raises Concerns More Stories Who's Blogging? Read what bloggers are saying about this article. MetroRiderLA What's Up Arlington Get There Full List of Blogs (14 links) » Most Blogged About Articles On washingtonpost.com | On the web Save & Share Article What's This? DiggGoogle del.icio.usYahoo! RedditFacebook "We're here occasionally really late, and we're really dependent on it being open," LaDuca said on a recent Friday night. "With traffic, driving isn't an option for me on a regular basis." It might have to become one, because Metro General Manager John B. Catoe Jr. is considering replacing the night-owl weekend trains with buses as a way to cut costs and provide more time for the agency to work in stations and on tracks. Catoe has asked Metro staff members to research the feasibility of his plan, and he expects a response by next month. "I have to look at every option I can to reduce costs," Catoe said. "I don't know the numbers, but if we can't save anything, I'm not even going to take it to the board." The reevaluation of late-night service -- which runs from midnight to 3 a.m. Saturday and Sunday on all train lines -- is part of an overall review of Metro's finances as the transit agency looks to next year, when officials expect to raise fares because of an expected budget gap. Catoe scrapped a plan to raise rail and bus fares this year but has frequently said he plans to propose an across-the-board increase this fall. Metro trains first began running after midnight in 1999, when the system's hours were extended to 1 a.m. At the time, Metro had the earliest closing time among the nation's major transit systems, and the move was celebrated as a sign that button-down Washington was getting a shade hipper. Spurred by support from riders and late-night businesses, Metro has gradually pushed its weekend closing time to 3 a.m., despite objections from agency officials over its approximate $5 million cost and its impact on the system. Late-night service was an immediate hit when it began, but ridership started to drop in 2004, when Metro began charging premium instead of off-peak fares between 2 and 3 a.m. In May 2006, the average after-midnight ridership on weekends was 22,376 trips, down 27 percent from 30,649 in May 2005. The number of late-night riders rose slightly this May, averaging 23,184 trips per weekend. Nearly half of those riders boarded trains between midnight and 1 a.m. On an average weekday, passengers account for about 700,000 trips. In addition to trying to cut costs, Catoe is giving late-night service a look so workers have more time to repair the system. Over the years, as ridership has swelled, Metro has opened earlier and closed later, shortening the "maintenance window" -- the hours when trains are idle and repairs are made. Late-night users aren't happy about the prospect of losing their rides. more here |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by PATHman on Mon Aug 13 23:47:35 2007, in response to WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by Easy on Mon Aug 13 23:01:58 2007. It's just talk. I'm confident the WMATA will continue to provide quality service to its customers. Too many people use the Metro during late nights for this to actually occur. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Aug 13 23:48:43 2007, in response to WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by Easy on Mon Aug 13 23:01:58 2007. I wouldn't say the service is being eliminated. They do want to eliminate the rail service and replace it with bus service. Should they go through with this plan, I think they should operate buses every night all night when the rail system is closed. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by JohnnyMints on Mon Aug 13 23:52:44 2007, in response to WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by Easy on Mon Aug 13 23:01:58 2007. Well if the late night train service is being replaced by bus service, it's not exactly like all these people will be stranded with no other options and the WMATA is leaving them high and dry. The service will still exist, just in bus form. Not quite the same as the Metrorail, but it's there if you need to use it. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Aug 14 00:12:32 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Aug 13 23:48:43 2007. Yes that's what I meant and I like your idea. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 14 00:15:15 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by PATHman on Mon Aug 13 23:47:35 2007. If they want to save it, they'll have to push their elected officials and WMATA officials very hard.Fixing trains and ROW while the ststem is operating is more expensive than doing it when it's shut down, and providing less time to do it with no trains running is bad news for a system that has had maintenance snafus. Metrorail's board and management don't want to sacrifice the State of Good Repair, so this cutback may go through unless more operating $$$ support is found. A properly running system in good physical shape, that closes at midnight, is far better than one run to 3AM where maintenance gets deferred. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by PATHman on Tue Aug 14 00:41:58 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 14 00:15:15 2007. In this system the people usually have the last say. Last year they got rid of an annoying service pattern on the Red Line in which every other train heading to Shady Grove terminated at Grosvenor. In addition, they extended off peak Yellow Line service to Fort Totten. If enough people speak out then late night service will be preserved. This is a very customer friendly system. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 14 00:47:08 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by PATHman on Tue Aug 14 00:41:58 2007. The people didn't cause those changes. WMATA would have not made either of those changes had the governments requesting them not paid for the additional expenses in full. While the people did let their elected officials know they wanted the Grosvenor turnbacks eliminated, WMATA wasn't going to make that happen unless Maryland paid for it (Maryland did not have the money to eliminate them on the other end just yet, although I'm sure if they ever have the cash, they will). The Yellow Line to Fort Totten, I believe, was the idea of some DC Councilmembers. I'm not sure the people were clamoring loudly for that one, though I'm sure they like it. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Aug 14 06:39:03 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Aug 13 23:48:43 2007. SEPTA does that with it's (albeit) smaller Broad St. Subway & Market Frankford lines. They bus all night. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Aug 14 08:22:48 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by JohnnyMints on Mon Aug 13 23:52:44 2007. With the bus only stopping at train stations and the lack of late night auto traffic, it shouldn't be too bad of a bus ride. That how it is in Philly. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by Red Line to Glenmont on Tue Aug 14 11:28:38 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 14 00:47:08 2007. Actually, the Yellow Line extension was mentioned at at Public Hearings, including by me about 2 years ago at a hearing in College Park. They said they didn't know if they could do it, but apparently they could. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by Red Line to Glenmont on Tue Aug 14 11:35:32 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Aug 14 08:22:48 2007. And if they run them every 20 minutes or half hour, all nine branches starting at the same station at the same time rather passing having the 3 downtown transfer points, it could work out well. The big problem, which Philadelphia has worked out by having some buses overnight run every 5 minutes sometimes, is since a bus only holds about 50 people, they may need to run them fairly frequently and have extras available as needed. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 14 12:10:59 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by Red Line to Glenmont on Tue Aug 14 11:35:32 2007. I figure they could do something like this:Route 1: Shady Grove to Glenmont Route 2: Vienna to New Carrollton Route 3: Largo to Rosslyn Route 4: Greenbelt to Branch Avenue Route 5: Metro Center to Franconia-Springfield via Huntington Arlington Cemetery would not be served by any route. I think all other stations are easily served except for Tenleytown. Perhaps a one bus shuttle could connect Tenleytown to Friendship Heights, where the regular service could be picked up. All 5 routes would stop at Metro Center, which would be the timed transfer point between all the services. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by PATHman on Tue Aug 14 12:12:55 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by Red Line to Glenmont on Tue Aug 14 11:35:32 2007. Still, psychologically, a bus is less appealing than a train. People will not want to ride it. Even here in New York the phrase "shuttle bus" is taboo. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 14 12:13:25 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 14 12:10:59 2007. I like your plan."Arlington Cemetery would not be served by any route" That would save having to upgrade the wheelchair lifts. Coffins weigh more than the usual 600 lb limit. 8-) |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Tue Aug 14 12:14:48 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by PATHman on Tue Aug 14 12:12:55 2007. If you have to get somewhere, people really don't give a damn what they ride. If their only choice is a bus, they will ride it. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 14 12:16:26 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by PATHman on Tue Aug 14 12:12:55 2007. "Shuttle bus" is not taboo to riders. It's not as good as a train, but riders still rank it better than no service at all.References that get bandied about on railbuff sites and chatboards do not represent general public attitudes. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 14 12:18:39 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 14 12:10:59 2007. A bus should be able to get to Wisconsin Avenue easily...from Connecticut Avenue, left on Van Ness and right on Wisconsin. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 14 12:20:58 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by Red Line to Glenmont on Tue Aug 14 11:35:32 2007. Or, WMATA could have Northern run as many of the buses using artics as possible (assuming no more than 50 are needed) and have 40 footers only run on Northern routes that normally use artics (or have Montgomery run some Northern routes to fill gaps) to have artics running for the bustitutions. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 14 12:25:02 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by PATHman on Tue Aug 14 12:12:55 2007. However, for a system that needs to shut down overnight for whatever reason, a shuttle bus means that customers will not be stranded and can get back to the stations to retrieve their cars. From what I am reading, it sounds as though a bus every 10 minutes could do the trick. Services in Virginia could be run out of Four Mile Run (where IMO, all services should begin), services on the Red Line could be done from Northern and Montgomery, and services to Prince Georges could be done out of Landover and/or Bladensburg.No real problems here, since WMATA Metrobus has some lines running 24/7 (mostly in DC). |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by hhp664 on Tue Aug 14 12:42:50 2007, in response to WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by Easy on Mon Aug 13 23:01:58 2007. I used to use the service regularly, however now it is too expensive and also inconvient. When i work late as a engineer for amtrak and get in after the last train leaves union station for metro center at 11;55am i can't use the service. Although lets be honest to catch a train from franconia springfield to union station at rush hour costs me 3.75$ one way and 3.75$ back plus 3.75$ to park You do the math almost 12.00 daily and in newyork they complain over two dollars. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by LA Blue Line on Tue Aug 14 12:49:37 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Tue Aug 14 12:14:48 2007. People with no alternatives have no choice but to take what you give them. Many people that do have an alternative will decide to use that rather than ride the bus. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by Eric B on Tue Aug 14 14:02:30 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Aug 14 08:22:48 2007. Remember the desperate 90's when MTA was talking about cutting most midnight servive and running buses instead? |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Aug 14 16:13:47 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Tue Aug 14 12:14:48 2007. They run PCC-II trolleys on the 15 in Philly mostly. Some times a bus comes along. The people don't care, it takes them where they want to go. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by JohnL on Tue Aug 14 16:25:06 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 14 12:16:26 2007. I think people accept occasional bustitution of a line as part of life. Whether those with possible alternate means of transportation will accept buses rather than trains is a real question.Should this measure come to pass, I wonder whether we will see an increase in automobiles driving into Washington (or at least the areas on the party circuit) because taking a bus home at 3am is not seen as cool. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 14 16:34:03 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by JohnL on Tue Aug 14 16:25:06 2007. Your question is a reasonable one.If it's temporary and you're at work and you don't finish before the train stops running, you can take the bus or you can call your spouse to come get you, or you can spend $$$ on a taxi, or you can flop down on the office couch. If you're at home, you can choose to bring your car if you know you're staying out past the last train. There were drops in ridership when train services have been cut back, though obviously not total. We'll see. Maybe the counties will cough up the money. I think WMATA needs more dedicated revenue streams. Yeah right, you could say. Suburban legislators are great at dreaming up new routes but lousy at paying to keep people working to run the routes. You can't get mileage out of a plaque that says "Senator Charles Jones late-night train operator program." |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Aug 14 16:41:14 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Aug 14 16:13:47 2007. "let them eat cake" is for the transit dependent. the entire flavor of the carpeted Metro anti subway is comfort for the "choice" read auto owner rider. many of them in fact refuse to use buses. For starters the perceived comfort of a barrier fare control station as opposed to a bus stop sign on the corner is a strong differential. These are the same people who DRIVE to Metro(or BART).. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 14 16:43:03 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Aug 14 16:41:14 2007. True, WMATA is big on Kiss'N'Ride. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by JohnL on Tue Aug 14 16:44:10 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 14 16:34:03 2007. You can't get mileage out of a plaque that says "Senator Charles Jones late-night train operator program."That’s true in so many ways: people take infrastructure for granted and don’t understand that it costs money just to keep the lights on. Politicians don’t like putting a lot of money in maintenance budgets because it doesn’t bring them the electoral success that new projects do. But then the same people who complain about potholes, don’t notice when there’s money in the budget so they’re fixed promptly and then ask where all their transportation dollars went! I posit that, in general, we have the politicians we have because we’re the people we are! |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 14 17:11:10 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by JohnL on Tue Aug 14 16:44:10 2007. Ha! So true!Around here, in Kansas City, you can lose count of the number of grand buildings that Senator Kit Bond has put up with earmarks. In the case of transit, he was key in getting $12 million dollars to build infrastructure and buy new buses for the Bus Rapid Transit Lines on Main street (currently operating) and Troost Av (funded with construction starting soon). Meanwhile the Area Transportation Authority is strggling to pay bus drivers to drive the routes. No politician will encourage anything but sales taxes,and the state of Missouri pays KCATA less than $1 million each year in operating support. But if thebuses stop running, those fancy shelters with their arrival time announcement boards will still be there. :0) |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 14 17:51:17 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 14 12:18:39 2007. Have you ever been on Van Ness Street? |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 14 17:53:02 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 14 12:25:02 2007. WMATA does NOT have any 24/7 bus lines, contrary to what they say or anyone else says. They come close, but it is not 24/7 service. Please find me a route that offers 24 hour service. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Aug 14 18:02:36 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 14 17:53:02 2007. SEPTA is in a 16 day shut-down on the EL from 40th to 69th. The Congo line of shuttle buses is well done. You don't have to wait more than one minute for a ride. Now this , of course is in the daytime. At night I guess they still run the owl buses. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 14 18:08:09 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Tue Aug 14 12:14:48 2007. If their only choice is a bus, they will ride it.Given a choice between bus or car - I always drive - otherwise I prefer a cab. Taking a bus is an absolute last resort! |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by PATHman on Tue Aug 14 19:01:26 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Aug 14 16:41:14 2007. Last Thanksgiving I visited an uncle that lives in Germantown, Maryland (a 20 minute drive from Shady Grove). At Shady Grove it seemed like the majority of the ridership is people coming in from the I-370. Hardly anyone used the feeder bus routes. However, can you blame them? A sleek train with comfortable seats doing 75 is a much more appealing option than a bumpy bus stopping at every other block. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 14 19:04:45 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by PATHman on Tue Aug 14 19:01:26 2007. Clearly you don't take those buses. Many run express from Germantown to the Metro. Many people also drive to the Germantown Transit Center and pick up the express bus straight to the Metro from there. |
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Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 14 19:09:35 2007, in response to Re: WMATA considers eliminating late night weekend service, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 14 17:53:02 2007. "WMATA does NOT have any 24/7 bus lines,"Thank you for that important detail. Oh well. Is anybody asking for all night bus service? |
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