Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity

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Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by Hoghead on Tue Jun 26 00:49:01 2007 edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Rather decent New York Times story here.
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by Easy* on Tue Jun 26 01:36:41 2007, in response to Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Hoghead on Tue Jun 26 00:49:01 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Nice article and table.
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by Hoghead* on Tue Jun 26 02:01:10 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Easy on Tue Jun 26 01:36:41 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The graph is quite interesting. It also shows there must be one or two good employees underground. , , all running at 100% or better passenger capacity, yet still having an average on time performance of 94%. The is still the most lightly used train--people just don't seem to want to ride. The graph also seems to indicate that maybe one train per hour could be added to the and possibly 1.5 trains per hour could be added to the train.
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by CurAke79* on Tue Jun 26 02:14:12 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Easy on Tue Jun 26 01:36:41 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Wow the (2)(3), (4)(5)(6), (E), and (L) trains did really good.
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by Alargule* on Tue Jun 26 03:38:23 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Hoghead on Tue Jun 26 02:01:10 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d That would probably only lead to a higher percentage of late trains. What this graph shows is that the system really needs a modernization of its current signalling system, allowing for more tph on one track (it's possible, just take a look at Moscow). The SAS is also a line the city is in dire need for, so they better speed up the construction process. The graph does make me wonder, though, where the crowds on the Seventh Avenue and E lines come from?
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by SMAZ* on Tue Jun 26 03:39:17 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Easy on Tue Jun 26 01:36:41 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I don't get how the (L) is at 88% track capacity. How many TPH do they run?
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(451884)	view threaded
Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by Wallyhorse* on Tue Jun 26 04:08:09 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Easy on Tue Jun 26 01:36:41 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Very interesting indeed: It mainly shows how important the 2nd avenue line is going to be!
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(451900)	view threaded
Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by stephenk* on Tue Jun 26 06:42:25 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 26 03:39:17 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Likewise the Lex ran 30tph+ per track in the 50s, now it is at 100% capacity running 21tph. The figures don't quite add up!
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by The Queen* on Tue Jun 26 06:47:32 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Hoghead on Tue Jun 26 02:01:10 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The V is lightly used because it doesn't go anywhere. Im sure it it were extended to, I dunno, lets say Brooklyn, the avg passenger load would place it out of 'last place' AG
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by 33rd Street* on Tue Jun 26 06:58:38 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by The Queen on Tue Jun 26 06:47:32 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Maybe the MTA should run television ads to encourage people to ride the V.
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(451905)	view threaded
Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by 33rd Street* on Tue Jun 26 07:00:36 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Easy on Tue Jun 26 01:36:41 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d This table clearly demonstrates that Second Avenue Subway is really needed.
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Tue Jun 26 07:09:50 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by 33rd Street on Tue Jun 26 06:58:38 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d But I think people waiting for an F and who let a V go by can already see how empty it is.
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by Clayton* on Tue Jun 26 07:14:26 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by 33rd Street on Tue Jun 26 07:00:36 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d It also demonstrates that Bloomberg needs to put a hold on congestion pricing until mass transit infrastructure is ready to handle the supposed increase in ridership.
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by BMTLines* on Tue Jun 26 07:26:18 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Clayton on Tue Jun 26 07:14:26 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d If congestion pricing becomes a reality drivers will fill up the parking garages north of 86th Street and then take the already crowded IRT lines to their destinations...
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by Wallyhorse* on Tue Jun 26 07:27:46 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by BMTLines on Tue Jun 26 07:26:18 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Then in that regard: I would look at making the 86th street stop on the SAS a three-track, two island platform station that can serve as a terminal for short-turn trains during rush hours.
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by AMoreira81* on Tue Jun 26 08:22:28 2007, in response to Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Hoghead on Tue Jun 26 00:49:01 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Bloomberg does agree with this, but wants to impose this charge anyway. Maybe Silver is right in saying hold on for a bit and wait for the SAS to be at least partially completed. And buses won't work to increase capacity at all. This confirms what should have been known for a long time: Mass transit in Greater New York has already reached its breaking point. (New Jersey Transit won't be ready for another five years either.)
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by AMoreira81* on Tue Jun 26 08:24:55 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Clayton on Tue Jun 26 07:14:26 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d ...on both sides of the Hudson. NJ Transit, while not covered here, has publicly stated that they won't be ready. Now, if Bloomberg had proposed this the day he entered office, it would have been more warmly received by the voters, and the MTA and NJT (including NJT-related operators) would be ready. Bloomberg needs to realize that people who want to ride are all but turned away because "there's no room at the inn".
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by Rail Blue* on Tue Jun 26 08:41:36 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Easy on Tue Jun 26 01:36:41 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Okay, clearly more trains should run on the 6 and the L. For the latter, the cars can be found by shortening the V train.
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by AMoreira81* on Tue Jun 26 08:48:00 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Rail Blue on Tue Jun 26 08:41:36 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d A shorter V train, however, does no good along 6 Avenue up through Lexington Avenue, where you would now create a dash to where the V train is stopping on the platform, especially when the F is delayed.
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by AMoreira81* on Tue Jun 26 08:52:54 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Easy on Tue Jun 26 01:36:41 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d And now it becomes clear why many Assembly Democrats are opposed to the congestion pricing plan on principle...this would mean bad news for much of the eastern Bronx and the UES in particular...the MTA really needs to look at a completely new trunk for Queens that would branch off Second Avenue.
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by Wado MP73* on Tue Jun 26 09:13:48 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Alargule on Tue Jun 26 03:38:23 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The graph does make me wonder, though, where the crowds on the Seventh Avenue and E lines come from? I'm sure Penn station and PABT contributes to the crowding.
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by Stephen Bauman* on Tue Jun 26 09:57:45 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 26 03:39:17 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I don't get how the (L) is at 88% track capacity. How many TPH do they run? They operate 16 tph. According to their figures, that gives them a track capacity of 18 tph. It's one of the benefits of CBTC. They used to operate 24 tph and advertised their track capacity at 32 tph with the original signal system.
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by Stephen Bauman* on Tue Jun 26 09:59:04 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by 33rd Street on Tue Jun 26 07:00:36 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d This table clearly demonstrates that Second Avenue Subway is really needed. Only if these figures are to be believed.
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Tue Jun 26 10:06:57 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Alargule on Tue Jun 26 03:38:23 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d where the crowds on the Seventh Avenue The Bronx and the UWS.
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Capacity of the (L) [Was: Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity]
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Tue Jun 26 10:12:46 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 26 09:57:45 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Take a look at this: ------ LINK Subway crush Trains at capacity; congestion fee no quick fix, MTA says by patrick arden / metro new york JUN 26, 2007 MIDTOWN. If you’re reading this standing up, you already know the subway is crowded. Yet a bad situation is bound to grow worse, warned NYC Transit President Howard Roberts yesterday, as he painted a bleak picture of an overloaded subway system in crisis, with the nearest quick fixes at least “four or five years” away. “This is scary,” Roberts told reporters after making a presentation to a Metropolitan Transportation Authority committee. During rush hours, he said, the busiest train lines — including the 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and E — are running at or over capacity. “Right now on a lot of these lines we’re several years and a big capital project away from being able to provide what I would consider to be adequate service,” he said. “We are constrained.” Adding more cars to trains and extending station platforms could alleviate pressure. But that takes money the MTA doesn’t have, said Roberts, and one potential funding solution — congestion pricing — could exacerbate the problem in the short run, especially if diverted drivers choose to take trains on already overcrowded lines. “There’s no room in the inn,” Roberts explained, before pointing out that other busy lines, such as the C and the 7, can still accommodate new riders. But that does mean the MTA would have to rely on buses to meet the increased demands caused by congestion pricing. “If all those cars don’t come in, there will be more room for the buses,” Roberts said. The automated system known as communications-based train control (CBTC) is also key, he added. On a recent trial on the L, CBTC allowed 30 trains to run in one hour instead of the line’s current capacity of 21. At present, however, the L is running just “17 or 18” trains an hour, Roberts said, due to budgetary constraints. CBTC, platform expansion and running more cars all require time and money. “If we’re going to do one project at a time,” Roberts said, “just take the number of lines and multiply it by four or five years. In my point of view, that’s not going to get you where you need to go.” The cure? Expansion projects provide a real solution, but even the Second Avenue Subway won’t completely cure crowding on the Lexington Avenue line, Roberts cautioned. Funding for the first leg of the Second Avenue Subway is also $1 billion short.
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by Wado MP73* on Tue Jun 26 10:16:14 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Easy on Tue Jun 26 01:36:41 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d And we call our trains crowded? The average for the most crowded sections in Tokyo's rush hour was 220% in 1975 and down to 170% in 2005. From left to right. Tokyo, Osaka and Nagoya. Here's some figures by sections, badly translated by Google.
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by AMoreira81* on Tue Jun 26 10:18:24 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Wado MP73 on Tue Jun 26 10:16:14 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d HOWEVER, the stats that were cited before appear to cite the design capacity for the car, not the seated capacity (i.e., based on my reading, the cars are carrying as many or more than the amount of persons the car was designed for).
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Re: Capacity of the (L) [Was: Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity]
Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Jun 26 10:20:10 2007, in response to Capacity of the (L) [Was: Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity], posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jun 26 10:12:46 2007. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d It shouldn't be budgetary constraints, but rather the lack of available cars (or trained crews). The R160s should solve this problem very easily, whenever they finally enter service.
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Re: Capacity of the (L) [Was: Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity]
Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jun 26 10:24:16 2007, in response to Re: Capacity of the (L) [Was: Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity], posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Jun 26 10:20:10 2007. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Why do you think they have a lack of cars and crews?...not enough money!
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by Wado MP73* on Tue Jun 26 10:37:48 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Jun 26 10:18:24 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Both NYC and Japan stats are based on design capacity, however the New York ones are average of each whole line while the Japanese ones are about the most crowded sections. I'm sure the Lex sees over 120% at some sections.
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Tue Jun 26 10:46:58 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Jun 26 10:18:24 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Yes, design capacity, but not crush capacity.
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Tue Jun 26 10:48:07 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Wado MP73 on Tue Jun 26 10:37:48 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d however the New York ones are average of each whole line I initially didn't read it that way, but you may be right.
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Re: Capacity of the (L) [Was: Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity]
Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Jun 26 10:51:56 2007, in response to Re: Capacity of the (L) [Was: Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity], posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jun 26 10:24:16 2007. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d But the new cars are being delivered that will make that statement irrelevant in about a year and a half. In addition, only a few crews have yet to be trained.
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by PATHman* on Tue Jun 26 10:59:39 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Easy on Tue Jun 26 01:36:41 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I have to disagree with some of the data (though I agree that the V is underutilized and useless). The 1 train has to be way above 84%. Even during middays it's often SRO. The 3 doesn't really seem that crowded (same as the 5 train-except between Bowling Green and Grand Central). The 7 has to be above 83% (unless the they counted the local and express). There is no way more people ride the C than D. As for the E, I agree with that figure-it's always crush loaded. This is the result of a failed service pattern that makes the E the only viable line on Queens Blvd. In general, the A Division lines will experience more crowding since their rolling stock is smaller than their B Division counterparts.
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Re: Capacity of the (L) [Was: Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity]
Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jun 26 11:05:53 2007, in response to Re: Capacity of the (L) [Was: Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity], posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Jun 26 10:51:56 2007. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I know. But if the MTA was swimming in money, they could have ordered new cars earlier.
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Re: Capacity of the (L) [Was: Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity]
Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Jun 26 11:07:53 2007, in response to Re: Capacity of the (L) [Was: Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity], posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jun 26 11:05:53 2007. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I'm not so sure that the problem is when the cars were ordered, as opposed to how Alstom couldn't build them right at the start (the first few shells were seriously flawed and had to be scrapped before they ever made it to North America).
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by Broadway Lion* on Tue Jun 26 11:10:44 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Alargule on Tue Jun 26 03:38:23 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d It is NOT the signal system. Everybody says "Signal System" and "Signal System cannot handle new equipment." Well, DUH! The problem is NOT the signal system it is the new equipment. The equipment should have been spec'ed to run on the existing signal system. This means trains that can stop more quickly. Yes, bigger heavier trains. Yes, composite brake shoes, these add to the stopping distance. The easiest solution is: 1) Install track brakes to allow for quicker stops within the parameters of the existing signal system. 2) West site seems to have spare capacity: use big articulated buses to take people from southern and western Bronx directly to the IND at 207th and 168th Streets. 3) Provide faster express service on the (J) train so that some of the (E) traffic can be diverted there. 4) Start more (E) trains from 179th Street forcing more people, especially those arriving on a bus to use the new faster (J) train. The LION has roared! Let the MTA hear. (Indeed, I think I will WRITE to the MTA and tell them what they need to do.) ROAR
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by Broadway Lion* on Tue Jun 26 11:13:07 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Wado MP73 on Tue Jun 26 09:13:48 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Crowds on the (2) come from the Bronx. From White Plains Road.
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by Broadway Lion* on Tue Jun 26 11:15:39 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by stephenk on Tue Jun 26 06:42:25 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The add up given the stopping distances required for the new equipment. Put track brakes on those suckers so that they can stop within the design parameters of the existing signal system and you can put those trains back on the line. THAT is easier than extending stations and adding cars. ROAR!
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by Broadway Lion* on Tue Jun 26 11:18:00 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jun 26 04:08:09 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Sure, it will help upper east side, but it does squat for passengers coming down from the Bronx. PLAN NOW to extend the line to Fordham University via a Third Avenue Subway. ROAR
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by shadyelstation* on Tue Jun 26 11:22:38 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by PATHman on Tue Jun 26 10:59:39 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d have to disagree with some of the data (though I agree that the V is underutilized and useless). The 1 train has to be way above 84%. Even during middays it's often SRO. The 3 doesn't really seem that crowded (same as the 5 train-except between Bowling Green and Grand Central). The 7 has to be above 83% (unless the they counted the local and express). Remember that the table lists average crowding, which implies that some trains are more (or less) crowded than others. While emphasis is made on peak levels it is possible that the table was compiled using crowding levels both during rush hours and non rush hours. There is no way more people ride the C than D. The figures list loads as a percentage of capacity; remember that the (C) runs 480' trains as opposed to the (D)'s 600' trains (thus, it is entirely possible for more people to use the (D) than the (C), but for the (C) to be more crowded). As for the E, I agree with that figure-it's always crush loaded. This is the result of a failed service pattern that makes the E the only viable line on Queens Blvd. I believe making the (J)/(Z) a more viable option (via a new express service, perhaps) as well making better use of the (V) (either combine it with the (M) or send it to Brooklyn) could help alleviate the (E) a bit. I agree that the (E) is VERY crowded at peak hours. In general, the A Division lines will experience more crowding since their rolling stock is smaller than their B Division counterparts. True, but the A Div makes up for its smaller space by running more frequent service than the B Div. In a way each division's shortcomings cancel each other out and we return to the crux of the problem...peak crowding reaching its peak.
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by Broadway Lion* on Tue Jun 26 11:22:55 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Clayton on Tue Jun 26 07:14:26 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Congestion pricing needs to go forward. More than that the LION would close many of the auto routes into Manhattan to private cars. LRV is nice, but easily 20 years away if they started now. Big multi-section buses on a dedicated bus lane could be done by the end of the summer. Make the Buses south of 60th street FREE, make Broadway a pedestrian mall with a busway in the middle (to become an LRV in time). Put two way bus traffic on 5th 6th 7th and 8th Avenues (usurping the parking lane on both sides). With any drive on the City's part, this could be in place by September. ROAR
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by RonInBayside* on Tue Jun 26 11:23:16 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by stephenk on Tue Jun 26 06:42:25 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d "now it is at 100% capacity running 21tph" Read the article! It says 27 tph, not 21.
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by shadyelstation* on Tue Jun 26 11:23:35 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jun 26 11:18:00 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d **TRUTH** from the LION.
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Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Tue Jun 26 11:23:45 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by PATHman on Tue Jun 26 10:59:39 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I have to disagree with some of the data I think there is some confusion and misunderstanding here, and not all of it is your fault. For example, what does "average passenger load as a % of train capacity" really mean? Is it the average load at every station for every train during the peak hour? Is it the average load for every train in the peak hour at the peak loading point? If it is the former, then it makes total sense that the numbers shown will be much lower than if it is the latter, which would much better reflect the "crowding" that most people experience. Even during middays it's often SRO. I don't think this is showing middays. Also, SRO does not mean the train is any where near capacity. (same as the 5 train-except between Bowling Green and Grand Central). Are you only thinking about the sections of the line that you yourself ride? Are you ignoring the (5) traveling through the UES??? (unless the they counted the local and express). Of course they counted the local and express!!!! There is one row for the 7! There is no way more people ride the C than D. That's not what it's saying. I think it's saying that the average passenger load per train (either at the peak loading point or along the entire line, I'm not sure) is higher for the C than D. Remember, the C has a lower capacity per train that the D, and it also appears, based on the public schedule, to run less TPH in the SB AM peak than the D. Therefore, it is totally plausible that C has a higher avg load.
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Re: Capacity of the (L) [Was: Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity]
Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jun 26 11:24:17 2007, in response to Re: Capacity of the (L) [Was: Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity], posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Jun 26 11:07:53 2007. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d you're stuck in the details.
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(452001)	view threaded
Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by Broadway Lion* on Tue Jun 26 11:24:51 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Rail Blue on Tue Jun 26 08:41:36 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Nope. Those cars will not work on the new (L) line, and any cut to (V) service would screw the QUEENS LION! ROAR
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(452003)	view threaded
Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by AMoreira81* on Tue Jun 26 11:26:21 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jun 26 11:18:00 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d OR, reconfigure the Concourse subway to have a line feed to the EAST side instead of the WEST side...i.e., extend the Second Avenue Subway down 3 Avenue to 3 and 149, but then have it make a sharp left to meet the Concourse line just before 167...the Concourse line definitely has the capacity, and it would take a lot of riders off of the 4 and possibly the 5.
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(452005)	view threaded
Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Tue Jun 26 11:36:45 2007, in response to Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by Hoghead on Tue Jun 26 00:49:01 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I'd like to see the raw data that was released to the media by NYCT. I don't see it as a press release on their website.
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(452006)	view threaded
Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity
Posted by RonInBayside* on Tue Jun 26 11:38:17 2007, in response to Re: Some Subways Found Packed Past Capacity, posted by shadyelstation on Tue Jun 26 11:22:38 2007.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The E is crowded, but PATHMAN's ascribing that to the new service pattern is utter nonsense. The new service begun in 2001 succeeded in redistributing the passenger loads on the F train as well as improving local service along Queens Blvd. That was the goal of the service plan. The E is crowded because ridership is up generally, the E serves the heart of Jamaica and is fed by an army of buses, LIRR and AirTrain. Jamaica Center is truly a zoo in the morning. While it is true that some people board the E because it is the express service headed for 53rd/Lex, the answer is not to cancel the service plan; the answer is to improve J service for people headed to Lower Manhattan, and post comparative arrival times at 53rd/Lex for the V. Riders using local stations west of Roosevelt-Jackson Heights will use the V to get to 53 Lex. Riders boarding at Roosevelt should be educated by the TA - the difference in travel time to 53/Lex between E and V is 5 minutes. From 71/Continental it is 7-8 minutes, and probably less when you factor in the delays the express experiences due to passengers trying to squeeze in and holding the doors.
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