History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. (447397) | |
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(447452) | |
Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Jun 17 14:01:01 2007, in response to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by Dan on Sun Jun 17 11:20:07 2007. I wonder what Robert Moses would have thought and done if there had been a gas shortage in the 1930s and 40s? |
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(447466) | |
Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by Sir Ray on Sun Jun 17 14:57:31 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by daDouce Man on Sun Jun 17 14:01:01 2007. "gas shortage in the 1930s and 40s"Hmm, WWII gas rationing, anyone? |
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(447507) | |
Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by BMT Standard on Sun Jun 17 17:14:07 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by Sir Ray on Sun Jun 17 14:57:31 2007. Of course, gasoline rationing during WWII was not because of a shortage of oil, but because of a shortage of rubber. |
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(447597) | |
Re: History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Sun Jun 17 20:44:19 2007, in response to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by Dan on Sun Jun 17 11:20:07 2007. I saw the front page of this article while buying something in a store this morning and bought it to read the rest. The article has 2 pages worth of images of 6 different time periods and those 6 failed attempts at a SI connection.It's very sad to know that it's now 2007...and things haven't changed a bit. Soon enough though, hopefully they'll finally replace the long obsolete ferry with a subway/rail connection and finally call it a done deal. That'll probably have the same effect on Staten Island's "Downtown" as the HBLR did for Jersey City and Pavonia/Newport. |
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(447608) | |
Re: History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun Jun 17 20:59:44 2007, in response to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by Dan on Sun Jun 17 11:20:07 2007. "...barroom rants of mass-transit advocates."Kinda sounds familiar. |
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(447723) | |
Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by TunnelRat on Sun Jun 17 23:39:58 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by BMT Standard on Sun Jun 17 17:14:07 2007. that`s true,there was an abundance of gas but rubber was in short supply.I did a long post on the S.I.tunnel last year,several months ago I had bob emory post the original S.I.herald[iirc]1925 on why the tunnel was stopped.there is a 2 track tunnel under owl`s head pk.[65st& the belt p`way]leading towards,but not under the bay.I assume the same amount of as built tunnel exsists at the S.I.ferry terminal,althought I have yet to find any documentation on it. |
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(447951) | |
Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 18 11:14:50 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by BMT Standard on Sun Jun 17 17:14:07 2007. Wasn't there an artifical rubber made during WWII ?It probably didn't replace natural rubber supplies cut-off from the East Indies. |
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(447953) | |
Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 18 11:18:05 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by TunnelRat on Sun Jun 17 23:39:58 2007. Was the 2 track tunnel under owl`s head park the BMT or the IND extension? |
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(447972) | |
Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 18 11:57:00 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 18 11:18:05 2007. Neither,it was a B&O frieght tunnel,with hopes of running pass.service.the PSC[I believe]nixed that[pass.service]it was suppossed to connect to the lirr at 5th.ave.I have spoken to 2 seperate guys who were in the bklyn.tubes before all traces of the manhole&subway type grating were covered over. |
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(447975) | |
Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 18 12:01:59 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 18 11:57:00 2007. Wasn't there some talk in the last few years about a freight tunnel being built between Brooklyn and either Staten Island or Jersey? |
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(447976) | |
Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 18 12:04:41 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 18 12:01:59 2007. sure was,I believe it was under the guiliani administration. |
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(447980) | |
Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 18 12:15:16 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 18 12:04:41 2007. How far did that project go? |
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(447984) | |
Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 18 12:26:44 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 18 12:15:16 2007. Under owls head park to senator st.the begining of the park&up to,but not under the water in the sewerage/con ed substation at the 2nd ave entrance to the belt p`way.I,m assuming there was an equal amount of tunnel built on the S.I.side.There is no way to access these tunnels.Several times the question of access to 76st.has come up with people saying there MUST be access to inspect the tunnel.WRONG.I have posted 5 locations where tunnels were built& sealed up with no access. |
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(447995) | |
Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 18 12:46:43 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 18 12:26:44 2007. I would think something was built in Staten Island for a connection with the BMT coming from Brooklyn. I read something about it a long, long time ago in the library.Where were those 5 locations where tunnels were built and sealed up with no access? |
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(448003) | |
Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 18 12:57:45 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 18 12:46:43 2007. you might have the afore mentioned tunnel confused with the B&O tunnel.The ERA did for many years untill I mailed the newspaper article to them.the 5 locations are 76st,S.I.tunnel,66th.ave between queens blvd& the lirr[track,3rd rail&signals going to lirr still in place]95st to 101st 4th ave bmt.flatbush&nostrand irt.2 tunnels for at least a train length. |
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(448011) | |
Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 18 13:12:36 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 18 12:57:45 2007. Maybe I got it confused. I knew it was a connection from Staten Island to Brooklyn and assumed it was going to connect to the BMT. It was along time ago and I didn't know then the things I know now.What was the story about the tunnel at 66 Ave between Queens Blvd and the LIRR? It sounds like there was a near connection to the LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch at Whitepot Junction. |
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Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 18 14:11:52 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 18 13:12:36 2007. 66th.ave was to be the IND taking over the LIRR at whitepot junction.I vividly remember riding the local between 63rd.drive&67ave&seeing the cutoff for the rockaway conn.opened[around1956]there is an emergency exit right where the pocket starts there was a big,blue &white sign stating"motormen beware dead end"several years later the tunnel was sealed up& the sign removed.bums lived in the tunnel&used to start paper fires in the winter to keep warm.the t.a.had enough&sealed it off.there is roadbed up to the wall& the catwall extends into the wall. |
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(448108) | |
Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by vfrt on Mon Jun 18 15:47:02 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 18 14:11:52 2007. A Staten Island old timer once told me that the S.I. tunnel shafts were filled in when I-278 & the VZB were being built. We know that is true. But he remembers the tunnel as extending quite a bit under the water to a solid wall because they strung lights up down there to inpsect it before the shafts were filled in. He described it as a muddy mess. I doubt it myself, another urban legend??????? |
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(448161) | |
Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 18 17:46:08 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by vfrt on Mon Jun 18 15:47:02 2007. the S.I.tunnel shafts,if I read the post correctly were nowhere near the VZ bridge,they are at 65st&the belt p`way.these shafts are not filled in.I ran accross a t.a. 3rd rail maint.about 6 years ago who was in the bklyn side of the tunnel with a friend apx 10 years ago.I don`t know if the st.george shaft was filled in.I personely believe it wasn`t.I have yet to read anything,except the article I posted on the S.I.end. |
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(448177) | |
Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by vfrt on Mon Jun 18 18:06:33 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 18 17:46:08 2007. It's my understanding the the S.I. shafts were near the present site of the VZB toll plazas on S.I. |
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(448189) | |
Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 18 18:21:56 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by vfrt on Mon Jun 18 18:06:33 2007. no,65st&the belt. |
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Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 18 18:26:57 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 18 14:11:52 2007. I thought so.I've always noticed the ramp coming down to the Manhattan-bound local track since I was little. But I didn't know the turn-out from the Jamaica-bound local track once went past its current ending. Once I was looking around the LIRR ROW at Whitepot Junction and I never noticed any trace of a portal leading toward the subway. |
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(448197) | |
Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 18 18:28:46 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 18 18:21:56 2007. On the Staten Island side, the connection to Brooklyn was not too far south of the bridge. |
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Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 18 18:56:00 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 18 18:26:57 2007. it only went for over a train length,got no where near whitepot.there is also an underjump[no tracks,just an empty tunnel going under the 4 track ROW that slowly ramps up to 63rd drive.it only runs for about 200feet& is sealed up both n/b&s/b.however I did see the AS BUILT blueprints in the b/print room in the middle 70`s that shows tunnel was built all the way thru to 63dr&where ever ut ends on 66th ave. |
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Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 18 19:00:01 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 18 18:28:46 2007. wrong again,that was a proposal to link it up with the south beach line.I,m thinking what your friend saw was the 4th ave extension to 101st,then onwards to S.I. |
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(448230) | |
Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 18 19:03:51 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 18 19:00:01 2007. I would have thought the connection across the Narrows would allow passenger trains from Brooklyn to travel to either Tottenville or Saint George. I'm just a little confused about where the frieght line would have went. |
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Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 18 20:54:48 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 18 19:03:51 2007. It would have started at 5th ave from the lirr trackage as a tunnel,continue to owls head pk.under the narrows to st.george then as a seperate rail line to around arlington.it is unclear if it would have crossed into jersey using the current lift bridge or tunneled under water. |
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(448400) | |
Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 19 03:24:40 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 18 18:56:00 2007. was this tunnel to be extended to the Whitepot underjump or was it to use a new tunnel to access the Rock? |
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(448467) | |
Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by TunnelRat on Tue Jun 19 07:51:35 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 19 03:24:40 2007. it was to be extended to whitepot junc.it was to take over the rockaway div.lirr trains were to run while subway construction was taking place. |
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(448492) | |
Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by Eric B on Tue Jun 19 09:24:55 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 18 13:12:36 2007. The freight connection they've been talking about most recently goes straight from NJ to Brooklyn, not through Staten Island. Is that what you were thinking of? |
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(448736) | |
Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Jun 19 17:17:59 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 18 20:54:48 2007. It would have been interesting to see what the Staten Island map would have been if any connection was made. |
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(448740) | |
Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955. |
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Posted by TunnelRat on Tue Jun 19 17:19:45 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by daDouce Man on Tue Jun 19 17:17:59 2007. there are maps out there,someone posted them last year. |
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(448998) | |
Forgotten tunnels to nowhere |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed Jun 20 03:12:41 2007, in response to Re: Footnote to History of S.I. to Brooklyn subway projects 1923 - 1955., posted by TunnelRat on Tue Jun 19 07:51:35 2007. On a seperate thread regarding the SAS I mentioned that I once heard that there is a small section of completed tunnel running over the Christie St subway and meant to access the J/M/Z. What is the whole story? |
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Re: Forgotten tunnels to nowhere |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Wed Jun 20 03:52:02 2007, in response to Forgotten tunnels to nowhere, posted by SMAZ on Wed Jun 20 03:12:41 2007. What is the whole story?It extends to somewhere in the vicinity of 76th and Pitkin. |
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(449003) | |
Re: Forgotten tunnels to nowhere |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Jun 20 04:01:52 2007, in response to Re: Forgotten tunnels to nowhere, posted by Rail Blue on Wed Jun 20 03:52:02 2007. Funny.Ive seen pictures of it.. |
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