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| Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally (328129) | |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Flxiblemetro on Tue Oct 24 15:45:21 2006, in response to Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Secondavesubway on Tue Oct 24 10:40:49 2006. Let's hope the NIMBYS don't get in the way. |
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| (328283) | |
Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Oct 24 15:55:26 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by R4 Bryn Mawr LCL/R5 Paoli EXP on Tue Oct 24 15:24:17 2006. Is that both directions or downtown AM/uptown PM?Yes, it's both directions. And you didn't account for new ridership. Yes, but I also did not account for people entering at 125th, 116th, 103rd and 77th. These people will have most likely continue to use the Lex because there isn't a corresponding station on the SAS. Thus, the 50-50 split is not accurate. More residents of the UES will continue to use the Lex than will move to the SAS. That should more than compensate for any new growth in ridership. BTW, from where do you suppose these new riders will come. There isn't too much land available on the UES at reasonable prices. |
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| (328284) | |
Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Tue Oct 24 15:56:16 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 15:33:33 2006. At that point, the Second Avenue subway, to be called the T line, will have stops at East 96th, East 86th and East 72nd streets, and connect to East 63rd Street and Lexington Avenue, where riders can transfer to the N, R, and W trains. The MTA estimates 213,000 riders will use the T line each day.The writer of this story, Chuck Bennett, is a idiot. It's impossible to cram 213,000 daily riders into 4 stations. The number cited would be a more realistic figure on the projected daily usage for the entire 2nd Ave trunk line from 125th Street down to Hanover Square, once completed of course. (don't bet on it!) |
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| (328285) | |
Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Oct 24 15:59:55 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by italianstallion on Tue Oct 24 15:27:31 2006. there will be new ridership, including former bus riders.The number of daily bus riders crossing the 60th St threshold on 1st, 2nd and York is 27,000. It's peanuts compared to the 625,000 using the Lex. |
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| (328287) | |
Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 16:07:07 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Oct 24 15:55:26 2006. "Yes, but I also did not account for people entering at 125th, 116th, 103rd and 77th. These people will have most likely continue to use the Lex because there isn't a corresponding station on the SAS. Thus, the 50-50 split is not accurate. More residents of the UES will continue to use the Lex than will move to the SAS. That should more than compensate for any new growth in ridership."You also entirely ignored the changes in bus service that the TA will implement for the opening of the Q extension to 96th St. Bus service will be adjusted to deliver more passengers to that station. Some riders will prefer to use the bus to reach the new Q terminal because they know they are more likely to get a seat on the train. Obviously, when the 96-125 segment opens, new stations will open in their neighborhoods. |
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| (328288) | |
Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Tue Oct 24 16:14:13 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 16:07:07 2006. Incorrect! (as usual)96th Street terminal will be served by the same 2 bus lines, the M15 and M96. The routes on either line are expected to remain unchanged, while the service frequency will decrease. Why? Because there will be fewer, not more passengers on both the M15 and (more significatly) on the M96 route. |
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| (328289) | |
Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Oct 24 16:15:50 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Oct 24 15:13:04 2006. No it isn't, as everyone has told you. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Oct 24 16:22:34 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by WillD on Tue Oct 24 15:32:01 2006. It would only be a shuttle, if by some chance weekends or nights they cut it back to 63rd St or something. For example, the M line between Broadway-Myrtle and Metropolitan Ave on the weekends that route is a 'shuttle". However, normal M trains to Chambers or Bay Pkway are NOT a shuttle.The Lefferts line is a shuttle only when the A is cut back. Otherwise that stub is a normal line. So obviously, as long as the Q is running from the northern terminal and onto the Broadway line after 63rd St, it is NOT a shuttle any more than any of the stub lines in the system are a "shuttle". I mean we may as well call the E line route from Jamaica Center to Queens Blvd a "shuttle" then, which obviously would be silly. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Tue Oct 24 16:25:09 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Oct 24 15:13:04 2006. The Q shuttle?.Then how will the Brighton Line be served? Weekday-only B service? Brighton shutdowns on evenings, nights and weekends? |
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| (328295) | |
Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by R30A on Tue Oct 24 16:31:32 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Tue Oct 24 15:56:16 2006. IIRC, that was the annual ridership, but at least it is based in fact.The rest of the statement is absolutely ridiculous-- The T will NOT be the service starting the line, and will NOT stop at 63/lex, and the passengers will NOT need to transfer to the N R W, which will NOT stop at 63/Lex either. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Tue Oct 24 16:34:38 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by R30A on Tue Oct 24 16:31:32 2006. . . .and NO ONE will walk the 4 blocks using a paper transfer anyway. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by mshull on Tue Oct 24 16:38:38 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Oct 24 15:34:34 2006. I'm surprised that there are not more tail tracks throughout the system. Time and again, people refer to the tail tracks at Times Square on the 7 as the reason that so many 7 trains can get turned there in an hour.I'm sure the tail tracks at Jamaica Center do the same thing, by allowing trains to enter at full speed. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 16:55:12 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Tue Oct 24 16:14:13 2006. "96th Street terminal will be served by the same 2 bus lines, the M15 and M96. The routes on either line are expected to remain unchanged, while the service frequency will decrease. "And since you work at bus operations, you would be expected to know... I would expect the TA to consider rerouting some buses to 96 st terminal and to even consider rerouting some express bus service from the Bronx to the SAS. As to frequency of bus service along a line where stations are not close together and where only 3 stations, initialy, are on 2nd Av, I would not expect significant changes in frequency. But since you were promoted to director of bus operations last month, there's no question you're right... |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by R4 Bryn Mawr LCL/R5 Paoli EXP on Tue Oct 24 16:55:50 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Tue Oct 24 16:34:38 2006. 3 |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by R4 Bryn Mawr LCL/R5 Paoli EXP on Tue Oct 24 16:56:15 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Oct 24 15:13:04 2006. No, you are like a moron. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 17:00:05 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Oct 24 15:34:34 2006. "But federal funding has been easier to come by since."Actually, no, federal funding is harder to come by. Many more projects are being rejected these days with Bush in office. New York got special privileges regarding Lower Manhattan because of 9/11 (funding for South Ferry, the Fulton Transit Center, PATH and the new WTC site, but the SASand ESA got funding by being really good projects, which are also extensions, not virgin projects (FTA has been funding extensions preferentially. That's how St. Louis got money for a Metrolink extension). I'm not saying zero new projects got money. It did get harder, however. |
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| (328307) | |
Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 17:02:28 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by R4 Bryn Mawr LCL/R5 Paoli EXP on Tue Oct 24 16:56:15 2006. Stop it! Be nice. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by monorail on Tue Oct 24 17:04:13 2006, in response to Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Secondavesubway on Tue Oct 24 10:40:49 2006. Daily News:'Second Ave. subway plan picks up speed' "After 60 years of planning, we are now building," Yogi Berra: "It ain't over til it's over" |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 17:17:57 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by monorail on Tue Oct 24 17:04:13 2006. True. The tunnel boring contract has to be signed and the FTA has to deliver a signed multi-year funding agreement. We anticipate these events will occur very soon. But they have not yet occurred. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Market-Frankford on Tue Oct 24 17:57:55 2006, in response to Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Secondavesubway on Tue Oct 24 10:40:49 2006. And watch . . . it'll get delayed again."We expect construction to begin mid-2008." "After being put off for decades, constrction will finally begin in 2010." "Construction wil begin in late 2014 or early 2015." dot dot dot |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by FLASH GORDON on Tue Oct 24 18:32:06 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Market-Frankford on Tue Oct 24 17:57:55 2006. YOUR PLAYING MY TUNE.FLASH GORDON |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by FLASH GORDON on Tue Oct 24 18:40:10 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Oct 24 10:54:10 2006. Its the second time there breaking ground too.They maybe breaking wind too. FLASH GORDON |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Oct 24 18:59:15 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 17:00:05 2006. Thats more than true...It took them 10 YEARS! to get the FEDS on board... Not only that..they had to fight tooth nail and claw..to get what litle funds thats on the way... AND they have to do it ALL OVER AGAIN to get the thing finished by the 2020 buildout. |
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| (328329) | |
Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Oct 24 19:16:26 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 15:30:46 2006. Hah..You keep squaking..but you know just like I do..THINGS HAPPEN. The way the price keeps going up..you never know..they may just build the upper portion and toss up their hands and say "We cannot afford to build to lower Manhattan.The SAS will remain as is untill funding is availible...." You know how it is when you hear "when funding is availible"...that means its been DEFERRED.... You remember that word..don't you? |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by R4 Bryn Mawr LCL/R5 Paoli EXP on Tue Oct 24 19:45:02 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by mshull on Tue Oct 24 16:38:38 2006. I'm sure the tail tracks at Jamaica Center do the same thing, by allowing trains to enter at full speed.Nope. The crossover is too far away (on both levels) for the tail tracks to make much of a difference. And the lower level tail tracks are often occupied by trains during off-peak hours. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Tue Oct 24 20:59:12 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Flxiblemetro on Tue Oct 24 15:45:21 2006. ISAWTP. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Tue Oct 24 21:05:01 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 15:33:33 2006. Well, Noozeday talks out of its ass when it comes to issues on the LIRR and NYCTA. It just shows that you can't trust Noozeday when it comes to transit issues despite having a left slant. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Oct 24 21:13:01 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Tue Oct 24 20:59:12 2006. Why do you hope that? What is the potential NIMBY threat? How could they cause problems? How could they cause delays? What part of the process would they be able to disrupt? |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Tue Oct 24 21:18:33 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Oct 24 21:13:01 2006. There are a few UES residents that don't want the SAS to be built. Particularly the people who will be displaced by the property aquisions that the project will require (not that I sympathize with them). |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Oct 24 21:30:55 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Tue Oct 24 21:18:33 2006. Obviously. But what can they do about it at this point? |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Tue Oct 24 21:33:08 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Oct 24 21:30:55 2006. They most likely will do nothing because they don't have enough power to stop the project. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by American Pig on Wed Oct 25 02:53:22 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 15:16:56 2006. Did you forget about riders arriving from Brooklyn?Did you forget that Brooklyn is not north of 60th Street? How about the percentage of riders getting off the Queens Blvd. lines at 59 Street? The number of riders getting off the 7 at 42nd St and transferring? The growing number of riders getting off the BMT L subway and transferring? Riders coming from the Staten Island Ferry? All of these are south of 60th Street. They have nothing to with people originating north of 60th Street and riding to south of it. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by American Pig on Wed Oct 25 03:12:24 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 16:55:12 2006. And since you work at bus operations, you would be expected to know...And you would. I would expect the TA to consider rerouting some buses to 96 st terminal Which buses? Name one. Look at a Manhattan bus map and pick one. ...and to even consider rerouting some express bus service from the Bronx to the SAS. Since there is currently NO express service that does not run directly to the CBD and there has not been such service in many years, I find this very unlikely. Nobody's going to pay $5 or whatever the express bus fare is in 2010 just to transfer to the subway. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by American Pig on Wed Oct 25 03:14:46 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by FLASH GORDON on Tue Oct 24 18:32:06 2006. Why is his playing your tune? |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by American Pig on Wed Oct 25 03:15:31 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by monorail on Tue Oct 24 17:04:13 2006. As for the Lex, nobody rides it anymore, there are too many people. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Fytton on Wed Oct 25 04:40:46 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Oct 24 15:55:26 2006. "BTW, from where do you suppose these new riders will come?"Off the M15 bus. It isn't a coincidence that it is the busiest bus route in the USA - it's that busy because the SAS isn't there. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Oct 25 07:17:19 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Fytton on Wed Oct 25 04:40:46 2006. Off the M15 bus. It isn't a coincidence that it is the busiest bus route in the USA - it's that busy because the SAS isn't there.As I mentioned in a subsequent link, the number of M15 riders is small, compared to the number of Lex Subway riders. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by qveensboro_plaza on Wed Oct 25 10:12:50 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 16:55:12 2006. At the very least, The TA should consider extending the BX55 limited bus, which replaced the Bronx portion of the Third Avenue El and currently terminates at 149th Street. If they extended it to 96/2nd, with stops at the eventual Phase 2 station locations of 125, 116 and 106 Streets, it would give central Bronx commuters a viable option for East Side subway service other than changing at 149 for the 5 train.Uptown service would be via First Avenue and Willis Ave to 149/3. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by LA Scott on Wed Oct 25 10:15:09 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Fytton on Wed Oct 25 04:40:46 2006. Are there any statistics listing the busiest bus routes in the United States?In Los Angeles, I've seen numbers like 70,000 bus boardings a day on Wilshire and 44,000 a day on Vermont, anthough in both cases this included multiple line numbers running on one street. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Oct 25 10:35:59 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by qveensboro_plaza on Wed Oct 25 10:12:50 2006. Hmmm, that's an interesting idea. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Fytton on Wed Oct 25 10:38:32 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by LA Scott on Wed Oct 25 10:15:09 2006. "Are there any statistics listing the busiest bus routes in the United States?"My statement came from the current thread on BusChat about the possibility of BRT for five busy bus routes in NYC - the press release from the MTA about it said that the M15 was the busiest route in the country. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Wed Oct 25 10:44:11 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Tue Oct 24 15:56:16 2006. Yeah, I thought that was strange too. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Fytton on Wed Oct 25 10:49:16 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Oct 24 15:20:52 2006. 'I'll believe it when the tunnel boring begins'I'll believe it when it opens to passengers. How long did the 63rd St tunnel under the East River lie disused until trains started running through it? 25 years? |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Oct 25 12:00:35 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Flxiblemetro on Tue Oct 24 15:45:21 2006. Tere will be some complaints. If you look at MTA's website, you'll see that modifications to design have been made to reduce the taking of property. In other cases MTA may negotiate compensation of some sort (read: payoff) |
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