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| Re: Intermediate Station Fare Payment on SIRT (was:Re: Scrap pecking order with R44-SI) (305451) | |
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| (306828) | |
Re: Intermediate Station Fare Payment on SIRT (was:Re: Scrap pecking order with R44-SI) |
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Posted by Fytton on Tue Sep 5 07:41:40 2006, in response to Re: Intermediate Station Fare Payment on SIRT (was:Re: Scrap pecking order with R44-SI), posted by R68A - 5200 on Tue Sep 5 01:42:16 2006. '"The Staten Island Ferry *would not* be a money loser."65,000 people are transported on a typical weekday on the Staten Island Ferry.' It isn't the number of people it carries that determines whether it is a money loser. It is the amount each person pays. As that amount is zero, the ferry is definitionally a money loser. No-one said the ferry was useless - it clearly isn't - or even suggested that a fare should be charged. David of Broadway was simply pointing out that any service which has operating costs but no income must be a money loser. |
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| (306940) | |
Re: Intermediate Station Fare Payment on SIRT (was:Re: Scrap pecking order with R44-SI) |
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Posted by R68A - 5200 on Tue Sep 5 16:17:54 2006, in response to Re: Intermediate Station Fare Payment on SIRT (was:Re: Scrap pecking order with R44-SI), posted by Fytton on Tue Sep 5 07:41:40 2006. David of Broadway originally said that "the cost of installing and maintaining fare control equipment would exceed the revenue that it would bring in" and I disagree with that. Of course it does have to do with what they charge. The fare was $.50 until 1997. |
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| (307200) | |
Re: Intermediate Station Fare Payment on SIRT (was:Re: Scrap pecking order with R44-SI) |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Tue Sep 5 20:59:31 2006, in response to Re: Intermediate Station Fare Payment on SIRT (was:Re: Scrap pecking order with R44-SI), posted by R68A - 5200 on Tue Sep 5 16:17:54 2006. Of course it does have to do with what they charge. The fare was $.50 until 1997.Exactly. It'd be interesting to see what the ridership would be if the fares were brought into line with other ferry and commuter rail operators in the NYC metro area - the rough one-way fare levels would be: SI Ferry: $6.00 SIR to/from St George (peak): $7.00 SIR to/from St George (off-peak): $5.00 other SIR journeys (peak): $3.50 other SIR journeys (off-peak): $2.50 |
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| (307297) | |
Re: Intermediate Station Fare Payment on SIRT (was:Re: Scrap pecking order with R44-SI) |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Sep 6 02:46:57 2006, in response to Re: Intermediate Station Fare Payment on SIRT (was:Re: Scrap pecking order with R44-SI), posted by David of Broadway on Sun Sep 3 15:41:43 2006. One of the reasons that the SI ferry was made free was because, the "brains" in the MTA couldn't figure out a way to program the metrocards to provide for more than one transfer. Passengers who use the subway can make as many changes they wnt within the fare controls, but passengers who must also use buses have not only the incinvenience of transferring from a bus to a subway but if they should also need the take 2 buses to a subway line, they lose the transfer from the 2nd bus to the subway ine unlsee they have an unlimited ride card. Another drawback to the present system is that the 2 hour window starts as soon as a passenger uses the card the first time. Given the worst case scenario, if a passenger entering the system in midtown to upper Manhattan around midnight enroute to the Marine Pk section of Bkln, and just misses a train, he now loses 20 min of that window before he even starts moving. Depending on what connections he may or may not need to make, it may take an hour for him to reach Flatbush Av where he needs to transfer to a bus. He is now 1hr/20 min into his window. Since the midnight headway on the B-41 bus is 1/2 hr mainline and 1 hr to the branches, his transfer privilege could very well expire if he just misses a bus which based on my personal experience is highly likely. This situation also exists in other boroughs as well since with the exception of the B-42/Canarsie shuttle, no bus runs a headway that exactly matches the subway and most midnight bus headways are 1 hour. When I explained this difficulty to the "genius" who occupied the position of director of service planning for buses, he said that it works for "most passengers." Well, forgive me but since ALL passengers are presumed to pay fares, if it does not work for ALL passengers, then it is a faulted system. All that would be needed to correct the situation is either to extend the 2 hour window during the midnight hours and small reasonable cushion before midnight and after 600 AM to allow for extended headways on the buses as was done on the buses in the dayy of paper transfers. Going from a bus to a subway is not such a problem since the use is not registered until the passenger actually boards a bus. Another solution would be to have a device on the exit turnstile which would start the clock on the ability to use the transfer at the time the passenger leaves the subway to get a bus. Hopefully, someone with a lick of sense in the MTA will read this post and take the necessary action. |
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| (307303) | |
Re: Intermediate Station Fare Payment on SIRT (was:Re: Scrap pecking order with R44-SI) |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Sep 6 02:56:36 2006, in response to Re: Intermediate Station Fare Payment on SIRT (was:Re: Scrap pecking order with R44-SI), posted by Rail Blue on Tue Sep 5 20:59:31 2006. You're forgetting that SIR is actually a direct subsidiary of NYCT rather than the parent agency the MTA. That means that it would have to keep the same fare structure as the rest of NYCT even though it chooses not to accept NYCT employee passes at the present time. Some people have suggested that the SIR be operated as a commuter RR like LIRR or MN. Historically speaking, even when the SIRT was owned by the B&O RR, its equipment design was very closely based on that of the BMT steels and all the platforms were high level in true rapid transit style. It is obvious, therefore that the SIR was built and intended to be operated as a rapid transit line despite the many grade crossings that once existed. Another argument for retaining its status as a rapid transit line rather than as a commuter RR is that unlike LIRR and MN, it operates entirely within the city of NY which the other two do not. |
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Re: Intermediate Station Fare Payment on SIRT (was:Re: Scrap pecking order with R44-SI) |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Wed Sep 6 07:41:34 2006, in response to Re: Intermediate Station Fare Payment on SIRT (was:Re: Scrap pecking order with R44-SI), posted by randyo on Wed Sep 6 02:46:57 2006. Another drawback to the present system is that the 2 hour window starts as soon as a passenger uses the card the first time. Given the worst case scenario, if a passenger entering the system in midtown to upper Manhattan around midnight enroute to the Marine Pk section of Bkln, and just misses a train, he now loses 20 min of that window before he even starts moving. Depending on what connections he may or may not need to make, it may take an hour for him to reach Flatbush Av where he needs to transfer to a bus.So transfer at Borough Hall. Since the midnight headway on the B-41 bus is 1/2 hr mainline and 1 hr to the branches That's just silly. The current schedule seems to be:
Presuming I don't need to take a remedial math course, the following can be achieved with the same number of buses:
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| (308263) | |
Re: Scrap pecking order with R44-SI |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Sat Sep 9 03:45:45 2006, in response to Re: Scrap pecking order with R44-SI, posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Sep 3 01:32:06 2006. Or the trains used in SF's Muni Metro. Now those are nice trains. And they may as well expand to NJ as SI will not be connected to the rest of NYC transit. And unless there is a POP/ metrocard collection then SIR doesn't deserve new cars and should only get 2nd hand cars. |
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