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| Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? (390870) | |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by randyo on Sat May 16 19:58:29 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by VictorM on Sat May 16 19:12:37 2020. I wasn’t sure, since I have a photo of the old Dekalb model board and the track numbering changes back then were even weirder. |
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| (1547445) | |
Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat May 16 20:07:09 2020, in response to Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by randyo on Thu May 14 17:11:38 2020. If the BMT did things right, how come when they changed the name of Canal Street station that leads to the Manhattan Bridge to “Broadway Canal” they just slapped a wood sign above Canal Street to read Broadway Canal, similar to what they did at 138 Street, instead of redoing the tile? Or was the name changed after the BOT or NYCTA took over? |
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Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat May 16 20:44:41 2020, in response to Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by randyo on Sat May 16 15:20:23 2020. Just wonderin about something. Had the Ashland Place connector been installed to connect the Fulton St el to Dekalb Ave, what would have become of the IND Fulton Line? |
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Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sun May 17 01:33:39 2020, in response to Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat May 16 20:07:09 2020. I thought that name change took place before the line even opened, when they canceled the planned crosstown line and used the station for trains that would run on Broadway. Which would mean it was the BRT that did that. Same for Gold St./Myrtle Ave. - wasn't the name changed before the line opened? Possibly just before? |
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Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by randyo on Sun May 17 02:12:06 2020, in response to Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat May 16 20:07:09 2020. As differentiated from Gold St, the name of the station wasn’t completely changed, but the name Canal St was added above the mosaic. When the lower level at Canal first opened it was supposed to be only “temporary” since the Manny B tks to Bway were finished ahead of the lower Bway Subway and the Montague St tunnel. The BRT opted to build a temporary ramp from the lower level to the main Bway Line in order to get Southern Div service to Bway rather than wait for the rest of the line in lower Manhattan to be completed. Since the lower level station was eventually intended to be made apart of the planned Canal St Xtown line and the temporary ramp removed, the BRT didn’t feel it was necessary to make a permanent alteration to the station mosaic. As originally planned the upper level at C/Hall was supposed to be a 2 tk stub terminal for Bway Lcls and the lower level was supposed to be the through express station with the middle used for short turns from either direction depending on what service pattern might have been needed. When the Montague St tunnel was completed, for plans for the Cnal St Xtown line had been shelved so it was decided to leave the exp tks connected to the Manny B and build a false floor for the upper level tks S/O C/Hall and make them the through tks and not use the lower level for any sort of passenger service. |
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Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by randyo on Sun May 17 02:29:39 2020, in response to Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by Elkeeper on Sat May 16 20:44:41 2020. It might probably never have been built, but possible some parts of the IND “Second System” like the Utica/Stuyvesant subway might have been built instead. Another possibility is that the IND might have been connected in some way to the Fulton St El near the present Lafayette Ave station and the Ashland Pl connection demolished. |
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[PHOTO] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun May 17 06:23:26 2020, in response to Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat May 16 20:07:09 2020. 
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun May 17 06:27:33 2020, in response to [PHOTO] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun May 17 06:23:26 2020. Wow! What year was this taken? |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun May 17 06:30:27 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by Dj Hammers on Sat May 16 11:51:13 2020. Thanks for the correction! |
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Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun May 17 06:31:06 2020, in response to Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by randyo on Sat May 16 14:40:38 2020. Have you seen any documentation for the plan in the 1930s? Thanks. |
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Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun May 17 06:32:00 2020, in response to Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by randyo on Sun May 17 02:12:06 2020. I still have no idea why they wanted a Canal Street crosstown. |
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun May 17 07:35:32 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by Union Tpke on Sun May 17 06:27:33 2020. Wow! What year was this taken?I would guess sometime in the early to mid 1940's. Bill Newkirk |
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Dave Rogoff's Article on The Canal Street Subway |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun May 17 09:38:02 2020, in response to Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by Union Tpke on Sun May 17 06:32:00 2020. I found Dave Rogoff's article on the Canal Street subway, which can be found here. |
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Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Sun May 17 12:24:30 2020, in response to Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by randyo on Thu Feb 22 17:35:57 2007. I read something recently that stated the station was originally called Gold Street to remove any association with the Myrtle Avenue El, but was changed to Myrtle Avenue within short order because Myrtle Avenue was the main commercial drag at that time, and the merchants along Myrtle Avenue felt they would get more business if the station was also named Myrtle Avenue. |
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Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun May 17 12:54:18 2020, in response to Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 22 20:47:41 2007. 
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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Sun May 17 13:58:42 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by SLRT on Sat May 16 12:26:31 2020. That would have been some feat of engineering for the time. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun May 17 14:40:59 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by SLRT on Sat May 16 12:26:31 2020. If the Brooklyn Bridge connector from Chambers St had been built, imagine the clusterf**k crossovers betwtween Chambers and Canal Sts? |
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Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun May 17 16:01:29 2020, in response to Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by TheCanarsieConnection on Wed Feb 21 04:04:52 2007. I found an article from the Brooklyn Eagle from 7/21/1922. It referred to the former Gold St station as Myrtle Ave. Remember, this was at the height of the proposal to relocate the Bridge-Jay el station eastward, so that the platforms would sit between Bridge St and Myrtle Ave (at Gold St & Flatbush Av). According to the article, this was to have been an elevated/subway transfer there. |
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Re: Dave Rogoff's Article on The Canal Street Subway |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun May 17 16:04:35 2020, in response to Dave Rogoff's Article on The Canal Street Subway, posted by Union Tpke on Sun May 17 09:38:02 2020. thank you for that. |
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by randyo on Sun May 17 17:44:02 2020, in response to [PHOTO] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun May 17 06:23:26 2020. At 138 St they actually painted the original mosaics white and painted black lettering over it in an attempt to duplicate the original font. |
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Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by randyo on Sun May 17 17:57:23 2020, in response to Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by G1Ravage on Sun May 17 12:24:30 2020. That’s pretty much accurate. More people knew where Myrtle Ave was than Gold St so it was decided to change the station name. |
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Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by randyo on Sun May 17 18:06:27 2020, in response to Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by Elkeeper on Sun May 17 16:01:29 2020. The creation of a transfer between Gold St and a new station to be constructed at Myrtle/Flat Ext was mentioned in the PSC report from circa 1915 which I have often cited on this forum. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun May 17 18:18:03 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by Dj Hammers on Sat May 16 11:51:13 2020. DJ,no they aren`t.the provisions for the bklyn bridge are ramps,not tunnels.and yes i,ve been in the bridge approach tunnels,several times.you CAN see the provision from the s/b end of the J train platform.look up into the tunnel and you can make out a waist high wall,some times there is a light on,sometimes there is not. |
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Re: Gold Interlocking Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun May 17 18:20:24 2020, in response to Re: Gold Interlocking Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by GIS Man on Fri Feb 23 13:02:14 2007. they were not allowed to run WITH PASSENGERS,they could deadhead w/o passengers |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun May 17 18:34:20 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri May 15 20:47:32 2020. Thanks as always!& Best to you and Irene, and stay well! :) |
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun May 17 18:41:09 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by randyo on Sun May 17 17:44:02 2020. Forgotten NY  |
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Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun May 17 18:54:01 2020, in response to Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun May 17 12:54:18 2020. Don't several #7 local stations have dual names of the numbered street and pre circa 1910 street name ? |
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun May 17 18:56:29 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun May 17 07:35:32 2020. this may have been from a newspaper article about a bomb threat or something similar in the station. Late 1940s, or IIRC the year 1948 would be about right. These photos may be of the crowd during this ongoing incident/ investigation |
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun May 17 19:12:26 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by Express Rider on Sun May 17 18:56:29 2020. or, IIRC maybe, photo was of the crowds due to an interruption in subway service? |
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Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun May 17 20:38:30 2020, in response to Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by randyo on Sun May 17 18:06:27 2020. That new Bridge-Flatbush station had as much success as the Ashland Place connection. |
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Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by gbs on Sun May 17 22:47:24 2020, in response to Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by Joe V on Sun May 17 18:54:01 2020. Not the same at all. In Queens those dual names usually refer to the same street, with the name being from before the consolidated grid system and the number after. So 69 St used to be called Fisk Av and 46 St used to be called Bliss St. (An exception is "90 St - Elmhurst Av", which refers to two separate streets, both crossing Roosevelt Av at that location.) In some neighborhoods the old names remain. In Rego Park it's 63 Drive, but west of Woodhaven Blvd it's still Penelope Av (like it used to be in Rego Park too). And in Forest Hills Gardens, 71 Av is still Continental Av. Myrtle Av and Gold St are perpendicular, and when Flatbush Av was extended from Fulton St to the bridge, it cut diagonally through the existing rectangular grid and meets both Myrtle and Gold at that intersection. Either name (or both, like Hoyt-Schermerhorn) could have been used. |
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by randyo on Mon May 18 02:54:49 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun May 17 18:41:09 2020. That’s what I was talking about. When I got off there one day I walked up to one of those signs and looked at it from a certain angle and was able to see the original “Mott Haven” and trace the mosaics oof the original lettering with my fingers. |
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Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by randyo on Mon May 18 03:00:16 2020, in response to Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by gbs on Sun May 17 22:47:24 2020. He’a talking about exactly the same thing, the old street name and the new street number. stations on the Liberty Av A Line el structure used to have the same thing. |
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Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by randyo on Mon May 18 03:00:31 2020, in response to Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by gbs on Sun May 17 22:47:24 2020. He’a talking about exactly the same thing, the old street name and the new street number. stations on the Liberty Av A Line el structure used to have the same thing. |
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by randyo on Mon May 18 03:05:55 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by Express Rider on Sun May 17 19:12:26 2020. The crowds at Canal St during rush hours could get pretty heavy. I once had an AM platform trick at Canal the was referred to as the “chain gang.” If a train was coming off the Manny B at the same time a Bway Bkln lcl was discharging its passengers upstairs, one of the plat C/Rs would go partway up the stairs and rope off the stairway so that passengers coming from the Centre St Line and passengers coming off a Manny B exp would not overcrowd the platform. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 18 08:53:31 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by Mitch45 on Sun May 17 13:58:42 2020. It was built, or mostly built. But the City (so someone knowledgeable told me) forced it from ever being utilized. It was mapped on official BRT engineering drawings and you can at least see the trackways on some Brooklyn Bridge photos near Park Row. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 18 08:57:38 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by Elkeeper on Sun May 17 14:40:59 2020. Not really. Remember that there were intended to be two to three so-called Brooklyn Loops.The only one completed was Manhattan Bridge to Montague Street Tunnel. The Brooklyn Bridge one was to loop to the Williamburgh Bridge. As you can see from the map, the Brooklyn Bridge tracks ran straight through the interlocking to Canal. The Nassau tracks straight through to Manhattan Bridge. |
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Re: Gold Interlocking Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 18 09:00:01 2020, in response to Re: Gold Interlocking Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun May 17 18:20:24 2020. But as it was, they continued to operate with passengers on the Centre Street Loop until 1928. Also through the Malbone Street Tunnel. And Lower Level 9th Avenue until 1954 IIRC.Remember it is a protocol, not a law. |
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Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 18 09:03:33 2020, in response to Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by Union Tpke on Sun May 17 06:31:06 2020. I doubt that plan. The bluebirds were to be the el car of the future, because they could operate on any line allowing 10 foot wide cars.Observe the Multis on 14th Street-Fulton Street. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon May 18 09:21:58 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by SLRT on Mon May 18 08:57:38 2020. Actually two of the three loops were built. The first loop entered Manhttan at 60st Street and returns to Brooklyn via the Manny B or Montague Street. The second loop came over the Willy B and ran down Centre Street to return to Bkyln via the Brooklyn Bridge. The so-called "Centre Street Loop". The connection to the Brooklyn Bridge was of course never completed. The Centre Street tracks were connected to Nassau Street tracks in 1931. Sometimes this is referred to as the "Centre St-Nassau St Loop". The third loop was to enter Manhattan via the Manny B (south tracks) and return to Bklyn via the Montague Street Tunnel. This was built. Interestingly there was very little through revenue service from the Willy B back to Brooklyn via Montague Street until November 1967 (Chrystie Street). Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Gold Interlocking Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon May 18 12:08:55 2020, in response to Re: Gold Interlocking Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by SLRT on Fri Feb 23 16:07:44 2007. BU gate cars operated in the Centre St subway until the beginning of August, 1927. By then, enough Triplexes had been place in service on the Southern Division to allow the transfer of enough Standards to the Eastern Division. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 18 12:09:53 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon May 18 09:21:58 2020. If you're counting 60th Street as part of a completed first loop, I have to respectfully disagree.60th Street could have been one of the Brooklyn Loops if the planned Crosstown (BMT) elevated had been built, especially if the hoped-for connection to the Franklin Shuttle hadn't been NIMBY's to death. Point is, all the loops allowed the lines using it to return to their points of origin. 60th St to Southern Division doesn't. |
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Re: Gold Interlocking Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon May 18 12:23:09 2020, in response to Re: Gold Interlocking Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by GIS Man on Fri Feb 23 13:02:14 2007. The 9th Ave el ran Composites for about 10 years, from 1940-1950. They were too heavy for regular service on the 9th Ave line, so five 3-car Comosites were sent from the east side els, up 9th Ave, on the last day of service (6/10/40). They were stored on the center track above 167th St. After 1950, various IRT steel subway cars were used with their third rail shoes cut back so they could use the Anderson tunnel's elevated 3rd rail. |
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Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by ModelRider on Mon May 18 14:26:25 2020, in response to Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 22 19:53:00 2007. The only photos I could find online: 
And one modern day tease 
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Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 18 14:34:06 2020, in response to Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by randyo on Sun May 17 17:57:23 2020. But Gold Street is such a nicer name... |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by zac on Mon May 18 15:05:33 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon May 18 09:21:58 2020. While traffic on Nassau St is pretty light today, with just the J/Z, at one time it must have been pretty busy, with Culver, Jamaica, Myrtle and other special services coming through there.And for some reason seems to have no end to the fascination of this little line. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by The Silence on Mon May 18 15:13:39 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun May 17 18:18:03 2020. At least the top one is because I was back there once as well and that's just about exactly what I saw... OK, it was a little darker but still. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 18 15:28:03 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by zac on Mon May 18 15:05:33 2020. Very busy, and they had strategies to handle it in rush hour.By ending the Broadway-Brooklyn at Canal. By ending the Myrtle-Chambers on the center tracks at Chambers By relaying the Jamaica trains on dedicated tracks south of Broad St. By running the West End Locals, the Culver Expresses and the two Bankers Specials in one direction only via the Loop. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon May 18 18:09:22 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by SLRT on Mon May 18 08:53:31 2020. I've seen photos showing these trackways; don't quite remember where. nycsubway.org maybe?I think a photo of one of the ramps was also in the Routes Not Taken book |
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon May 18 18:44:27 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Original Sea Beach Route-What Is Gold St.?, posted by randyo on Mon May 18 03:05:55 2020. And man, could those BMT standards unload in a hurry! I used to witness that at Union Square every Saturday. Our 8th Ave.-bound train would just empty; people would POUR out. Sometimes we'd join them and transfer to the Broadway line for a nice express sprint to 34th St. on what I referred to as a, "train with a letter up front." |
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