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| Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free (1516387) | |
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Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Thu Jun 20 16:45:22 2019 Luxembourg is set to become the world's first country to make all of its public transportation free. The newly re-elected prime minister Xavier Bettel and the coalition government have announced that they will lift all fares on trains, trams and buses next summer. Taking aim at long commutes and the country’s carbon footprint, the new move hopes to alleviate some of the worst traffic congestion in the world.Landlocked by Belgium, Germany and France, Luxembourg has more than 400,000 commuters travelling in to work from neighboring countries. This year, Luxembourg started offering free transportation to everyone under the age of 20. Secondary school students have also been able to ride free shuttles between school and home. Luxembourg currently has the highest number of cars for its population in the European Union. As The Guardian reports, a decision has yet to be taken on what to do about first and second-class compartments on trains. Commuters now pay €2 for up to two hours of travel, which covers almost all trips in the small country. The governing coalition said it planned to overhaul tax breaks for commuters, a benefit that has been available based on the distance traveled. Beginning in 2020, all tickets will be abolished to save on the collection of fares and the policing of ticket purchases. |
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Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 21 03:17:29 2019, in response to Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free, posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Thu Jun 20 16:45:22 2019. That won't last. |
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Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Fri Jun 21 04:45:41 2019, in response to Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 21 03:17:29 2019. It might. The entire country is smaller than Rhode island, and they have a more homogeneous population than do we. I have a sneaking suspicion that they have no patience with people using public transport as a rolling toilet, etc. It may very well work out there, it would not work here. |
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Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Jun 21 04:59:30 2019, in response to Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free, posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Thu Jun 20 16:45:22 2019. Trivia: most people in Luxembourg speak at least four languages. French and German are both official so everyone knows them, the most common everyday language is a German variant (but separate language) called Luxembourgish, and nearly everyone knows English. |
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Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Jun 21 05:51:48 2019, in response to Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free, posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Jun 21 04:59:30 2019. I had always wondered, though never bothered to look up, whether Luxembourg was a French speaking country or a German speaking one. So now I know. :) |
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Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jun 21 09:10:56 2019, in response to Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free, posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Thu Jun 20 16:45:22 2019. It's not free, they are paying for it with their taxes. |
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Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jun 21 09:20:29 2019, in response to Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free, posted by AlM on Fri Jun 21 05:51:48 2019. 
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Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Fri Jun 21 09:34:16 2019, in response to Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free, posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Thu Jun 20 16:45:22 2019. You thought of that all by yourself? |
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Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jun 21 09:57:08 2019, in response to Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free, posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Thu Jun 20 16:45:22 2019. I am a big fan of public transit in general, trains in particular, and especially particularly, the NYC subway, which I have loved since I was a child. I realize that NYC could not function without it. When I was a kid, I was so offended and upset when a maternal uncle of mine would constantly refer to it as the "stinking subway"- he could never, ever, just call it the subway- he was 100% consistent in that. But even as a kid in the 1970s, I had a sense of what it COULD be.With all that said, I do not think a completely fare-free system would work here. NYC and the USA are, simply put, not Luxembourg. Sadly< I think doing that here would lead to a terrible outbreak of anarchy in the system. Paying a fare, even one substantially reduced by subsidies, makes all users into owners, or at least, stakeholders, much more likely to care about and respect the system. I'll give a non-subway example of the principle: When I was shop steward of my union chapter, we were given a fairly decent allocation of funding from the main union (obviously, that money came from our dues). I would use most of this funding to arrange for very nice holiday meals and special events open to all members of our chapter, with an open bar and nice food in good Manhattan establishments. I COULD have made these events completely free of charge. But I, and my whole council, decided that people needed to show some ownership of the events, so we collected an admission charge usually ranging (depending how much money was available) from 10%-20% of the actual cost (and officials also personally paid this charge as well charges). Could the events have been afforded without these charges? Yes. But a minimal charge succeeded in getting the point across that the events were not really free, and members should act accordingly. |
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Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jun 21 13:06:32 2019, in response to Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free, posted by AlM on Fri Jun 21 05:51:48 2019. I used to hang out in a local bar here in Bkln with a Luxembourgese gentleman who was interestingly a US Army vet. It must have been quite a shock for the rest of the troops to hear their sergeant give orders in something resembling a German accent. He described Luxembourgese as a Germanic dialect but not actually German. |
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Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Jun 21 13:44:12 2019, in response to Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jun 21 09:57:08 2019. There's also the issue of scalability. Luxembourg has a population of 600,000, about the same as the Toledo, Ohio metropolitan area. What works with that tiny population is unlikely to work in New York with its vastly larger population. |
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Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 21 19:46:04 2019, in response to Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free, posted by Steamdriven on Fri Jun 21 04:45:41 2019. Those aren't reasons for it possibly lasting.It won't last. |
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Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 21 19:47:14 2019, in response to Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jun 21 09:10:56 2019. And watch how they react when their taxes go up to pay for it even when fewer use it. |
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Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 21 19:53:55 2019, in response to Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free, posted by chicagomotorman on Fri Jun 21 09:34:16 2019. First hit on Google goes to a website called Arch Daily, and it's from December of last year. |
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Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by Displaced Angeleno on Sat Jun 22 05:55:02 2019, in response to Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 21 03:17:29 2019. You would subscribe to the small-minded belief that everything is a zero-sum game. |
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Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by Displaced Angeleno on Sat Jun 22 06:16:32 2019, in response to Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jun 21 09:57:08 2019. You're comparing discretionary spending items: alcohol, nice food, and a party with an essential service: transportation.Event charges increase turnout by leveraging opportunity costs and the sunk-cost fallacy to encourage people to commit to an event. If I work every day, transportation isn't something I need to be convinced to use, though I may decide which form of transportation to use on the basis of cost, enjoyment, health, time, etc. There are definitely some interesting ideas in re: collective ownership of a transit system, but Oscar Newman's Defensible Space theory in the context of public housing (not entirely dissimilar from public transportation) says that for people to feel compelled to take ownership of a thing, it must be sufficiently private, i.e. a nominal charge to make something technically not a public good isn't enough. |
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Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Jun 22 07:11:29 2019, in response to Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jun 21 09:57:08 2019. Similarly, business owners are frequently reminded that pricing has nothing to do with how much a product or service costs to provide-- it's about perceived value. If something has a value of $100 to a buyer, I don't have to sell it for $1 because it cost me 50 cents to produce even though that gives me a 100% markup-- and if it cost me $200 to produce I'm not going to sell any even at $150 despite taking a 25% loss on each sale. Most important, often perceived value is derived in part from the price. Sellers often make money by creating a perception of value by overpricing things somewhat. If the subway system were free, people would treat it as such and value it accordingly. |
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Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by Kevin from Midwood on Sat Jun 22 08:37:46 2019, in response to Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Jun 22 07:11:29 2019. No. The system in the 1970s and 1980s went to hell even though fares were required. The system was fine back when the 5-cent fare was long in the tooth and nearly amounted to free. Free-to-enter public parks and libraries function quite well.What matters more than anything is who's in charge. I've seen co-op apartment buildings with high owner-occupancy rates that were shitholes (i.e., with cockroaches, lazy supers, dirty common areas) because bad people got themselves elected to the board and made bad management decisions. |
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Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sat Jun 22 13:47:06 2019, in response to Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free, posted by Kevin from Midwood on Sat Jun 22 08:37:46 2019. Well, as the 1970s prove, a fare isn't enough, by itself to make the subway seem valuable. It has to be properly run and maintained. Nevertheless, I believe that a noticeable, but affordable, and if necessary, subsidized fare should be charged. |
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Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 22 14:03:41 2019, in response to Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free, posted by MainR3664 on Sat Jun 22 13:47:06 2019. No need for subsidy. That's instituted to keep government in control. |
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Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by BrooklynTrain on Sun Jun 23 16:52:23 2019, in response to Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 21 19:47:14 2019. NY already subsidizes mass transit (especially the LIRR and Metro North). This is just an increase in the subsidy. |
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Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Jun 24 03:31:49 2019, in response to Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free, posted by BrooklynTrain on Sun Jun 23 16:52:23 2019. NY already subsidizes mass transit (especially the LIRR and Metro North).The NTD provides the data to quickly determine operating subsidies (excess of operating expenses over fares). I've included various operating agencies and the mode (FB - ferry boat, MB - motor bus, HR - heavy rail, CR - commuter rail, CB - commuter bus, LR - LRT, RB - BRT). I was surprised how much buses are subsidized over rail. I included Houston because its bus network redesign is the poster child for a "bus turnaround". The operating subsidy for MN and the LIRR over NYC is somewhat questionable, when it's computed on a per passenger-mile basis. It's much less than the bus subsidies. Also, DeBlasio's East River ferry services are not out of line with other modes. The unfavorable press and goo-goos have looked at the per trip subsidy, rather than the per mile subsidy. They have also ignored the subsidy for buses. Agency,Mode,Subsidy per unlinked trip,Subsidy per pass-mile New York City Economic Development Corporation,FB,$8.14,$2.02 MTA Bus Company,MB,$4.87,$1.72 MTA Long Island Rail Road,CR,$6.07,$0.21 MTA Staten Island Railway,HR,$7.48,$1.20 Port Authority Trans-Hudson Corporation,HR,$2.50,$0.59 MTA Metro-North Railroad,CR,$5.59,$0.21 MTA New York City Transit,CB,$11.79,$0.94 MTA New York City Transit,HR,$0.48,$0.12 MTA New York City Transit,MB,$2.40,$1.14 MTA New York City Transit,RB,$2.07,$1.12 Nassau Inter County Express,MB,$2.57,$0.45 New Jersey Transit Corporation,CR,$4.43,$0.19 New Jersey Transit Corporation,MB,$3.11,$0.42 Metropolitan Transit Authority of Harris County Texas,CB,$4.48,$0.24 Metropolitan Transit Authority of Harris County Texas,MB,$5.30,$1.08 Metropolitan Transit Authority of Harris County Texas,LR,$3.23,$1.15 |
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Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Jun 24 09:39:02 2019, in response to Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Jun 24 03:31:49 2019. Very interesting. Thank You. |
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Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Jun 24 09:44:23 2019, in response to Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 22 14:03:41 2019. Well, has any system succeeded with all costs paid by the fare? To do that, wouldn't the fare have to be so high as to discourage use, and then not cover fixed costs?I really don't see how transit can succeed all on its own. In fact, airlines and even long distance buses are subsidized by having the government pay the costs of building and maintaining the necessary infrastructure. And let's not forget the enormous expenses necessary to provide security for air travel... |
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Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Jun 24 09:45:39 2019, in response to Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free, posted by randyo on Fri Jun 21 13:06:32 2019. I've heard it described as a blend of German (biggest component) along with a good deal of French and Italian... |
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Re: Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Tue Jun 25 13:04:37 2019, in response to Luxembourg Becomes First Country to Make All Public Transit Free, posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Thu Jun 20 16:45:22 2019. A few points:
Luxembourg is a seat of power in the EU. The government has substantial financial resources at its disposal. Unless they are made to understand the importance of investing in their infrastructure for the long-haul, free transit will be meaningless. If they think it will decrease the number of automobiles or trips by automobile in its present condition they are sadly mistaken. As a transit advocate and policy wonk, I say create demand pricing zones to discourage cars in them during certain hours or entirely. Lockbox that revenue exclusively for infrastructure. Scale-up automobile registration fees over x-years and lockbox that revenue. Build demand for service. Tart-up maintaining the infrastructure so companies and investors want to throw themselves at it. Public works projects used to be sexy to investors, then the 80s and 90s happened: They were maligned simply for being longer-term, not "Mo money, mo fast!" |
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