|
|
| Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal (1429871) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
Page 3 of 6 |
||
|
| (1430428) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Thu Mar 16 18:38:30 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Mar 16 02:24:05 2017. I would, if I knew more about Buffalo. As it is, a station at or near downtown seems to be best, on the face of it. |
|
|
| (1430431) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Mar 16 20:00:06 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by 3-9 on Thu Mar 16 18:38:30 2017. There is Exchange Street, but it's been cut down to a single platform. |
|
|
| (1430432) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Mar 16 20:13:46 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Mar 16 20:00:06 2017. Yes, and this discussion is about investing in a better facility downtown vs investing in restoring Central Terminal. |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (1430433) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Mar 16 20:17:20 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 16 12:11:23 2017. What's the plan for Larkinville, because just off a quick Google Maps search, that's pretty much the area I suggested would be the best as well. Close to downtown and allows all 3 services (Empire, Maple Leaf, and LSL) to serve it. I'd put it right there in between the split so it's as close to downtown as possible. |
|
|
| (1430449) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Mar 16 23:25:56 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Mar 16 02:24:05 2017. 5 miles? Where I live we have a far smaller population and two indoor malls within 3 miles (two bus routes serve both!). Both are doing well.Part of it is we're in the middle of nowhere in cold country anyway, and people prefer indoor entertainment for a good chunk of the year. These factors apply to Buffalo as well. |
|
|
| (1430450) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Mar 16 23:36:46 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Mar 16 18:22:24 2017. Ugh, the mall isn't to draw train riders. It's a multi-use building. Amtrak is to be a tenant like anyone else. Denver Union Station has a similar setup - the main hall is basically a public lounge for city residents, the old ticket windows are a bar, there's some fancy eateries in the building, the upstairs is a hotel. Until the commuter rail opened there was just the one long distance train per day serving it. There could have been zero trains serving it and it would still have hundreds of people going there each day. It's also at the foot of a free downtown circulator bus which runs frequently enough that there is no schedule.Someone put the idea succinctly: downtown is already improving without a new train station. This would trigger a round of improvements in a completely different neighborhood. |
|
|
| (1430452) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by pragmatist on Thu Mar 16 23:46:04 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Mar 16 23:25:56 2017. On a nationwide basis, mall real estate developers have hit a bumpy patch. Traditional mall retailers aren't doing that well and have closed many stores, including big department stores that usually serve as anchor stores for malls. Lots of empty space. At the same time, there are still proposals to build new ones. None of us has a crystal ball, we all just try to make our best guess as to what will be 10-20-30 years down the road. Always hard to choose between a project supporting an existing area, or a project spurring the rejuvenation of an area. Pretty hard to finance both. |
|
|
| (1430453) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Mar 17 00:12:30 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by pragmatist on Thu Mar 16 23:46:04 2017. Ah that was part of my post but I cut it for being long winded... while nationwide, indoor malls are doing poorly, they don't take into account regional climate differences. An indoor mall with long walks from the car isn't appealing in areas with decent-ish weather for most of the year. Outdoor malls thrive in those areas because you can always park near the stores you intend to visit. and continuously drop off your purchases in the trunk. But here, not having to walk outside between stores is a huge perk of indoor versus outdoor shopping. Also, indoor malls are learning that non-shopping attractions generate traffic too (Dave & Busters, minigolf, carousels, laser tag, and of course movie theatres). |
|
|
| (1430455) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Mar 17 02:14:49 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Mar 16 23:25:56 2017. Even then, your reasoning for Central Terminal is that there's going to be a mall....seriously....we're eliminating downtown service with service to...a mall |
|
|
| (1430456) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Mar 17 02:20:11 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Mar 17 02:14:49 2017. Not just that, there's going to also be the LSL available, as well as plenty of space for parking. Neither of which is downtown. |
|
|
| (1430457) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Mar 17 02:28:49 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Mar 16 23:36:46 2017. Seriously? You're comparing Denver Union Station, which has always been right on the fringe of downtown, with Buffalo Central Terminal, which is nowhere even remotely convenient to downtown. Part of the reason Denver Union Stations various mixed-use components are so successful is because they're an extension of downtown Denver. In the distance it takes from downtown Buffalo to Central Terminal, you can walk from Denver Union Station to the other side of downtown Denver and back. And again, Amtrak is an intercity service, the point and primary advantage being that it should provide convenient travel between cities. Stopping at a mall that's 2 miles away from any semblance of urban development just because it's a historic structure worth saving is not convenient. Central Terminal certainly might have a future as a train station, but on some sort of local service into downtown Buffalo (and that's a damn long shot). For Amtrak though, it is completely wrong and always has been wrong, for Amtrak and for all intercity passenger services prior. |
|
|
| (1430458) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Mar 17 02:32:27 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Mar 17 02:20:11 2017. Larkinville could easily have all of that and still be in an area where one could reasonably see downtown expand to (and even if not, it would be far more convenient than Central Terminal). |
|
|
| (1430483) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Fri Mar 17 19:11:26 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Mar 17 02:20:11 2017. You may have missed Trump's DOT budget proposal. If enacted, there will be NO Lake Shore Ltd, or any of the 15 long distance train throughout the country. |
|
|
| (1430484) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Fri Mar 17 19:13:48 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Mar 17 02:28:49 2017. Denver is an RTD station. It is served by their commuter trains within it, their LRT adjacent to it, and an RTD bus terminal. Amtrak is a minor tenant that had little to no say in its redesign. |
|
|
| (1430494) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Mar 18 00:39:40 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Joe V on Fri Mar 17 19:11:26 2017. Lol yup, his proposal is shit, and will likely be stillborn in the legislature. Especially since that money is essentially going towards building the pointless wall. Most of the states affected are red states and his hold on the Senators is... tenuous at best. Without federal subsidy I can guarantee the Sunset, Cardinal, Crescent, and Texas Eagle disappear - bloodbath for the red states.The only way he can get it passed is if he reveals his (likely nonexistant) "trillion dollar infrastructure" plan before they vote on it. That said, I can see five long distance trains surviving doomsday: Auto Train (which covers its own operating expenses), Silver Meteor (best performing of the east coast LD trains), Coast Starlight (with WA, OR, and CA paying for it), Empire Builder during summer, and California Zephyr with higher fares (this train is always sold out, if it's not making money it's because they don't charge enough). The LSL would likely truncate to an Empire Corridor train limited to NY running on a similar schedule. At the very least the LSL could survive as a seasonal train opposite the Silver Meteor: Winter the trains run to Florida, summer they run to Chicago. Perhaps a similar seasonal split with the Empire Builder running summers and the City of New Orleans running winters. |
|
|
| (1430495) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 18 00:42:06 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Mar 18 00:39:40 2017. That said, I can see five long distance trains surviving doomsdayWhat doomsday? Defund the FRA and the private sector can start running passenger trains again. |
|
|
| (1430496) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Mar 18 00:48:59 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 18 00:42:06 2017. Actually someone on RR.net had an interesting idea - tax credits for the Class 1s if they take over the passenger trains. Not sure what form it could take but at a minimum, trackage used for passenger trains could have their tax burden reduced (or eliminated, if perhaps there's more passenger than freight). Stations would also be covered. |
|
|
| (1430497) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Mar 18 00:53:20 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 15 09:57:32 2017. It's only a one and a half hour drive, you have to travel for more than triple that amount of time to go to any other comparably sized city. |
|
|
| (1430500) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 18 02:15:48 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Mar 18 00:48:59 2017. They could have done that fifty years ago and saved the public all this trouble. |
|
|
| (1430502) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 18 07:06:22 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 18 00:42:06 2017. You are in La La Land. The LD trains run a Fully Allocated Cost operating deficit of $500 million a year. The Class I's will never get back into the business. |
|
|
| (1430510) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 18 10:06:36 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Mar 18 00:48:59 2017. LION OPPOSES TAX CREDITS. ALL RAX CREDITS SHOULD BE ELIMINATED!Taxes are for the purpose of raising revenue. PERIOD. The are not for social, environmental, or other manipulations. THAT IS WHERE TAX CHEATS COME FROM. Playing games with the right hoops and loopholes and no industry would have to pay any tax at all. ROAR |
|
|
| (1430512) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 18 10:07:53 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 18 07:06:22 2017. If states want trains to run through their boarders, let them pay the subsidies.ROAR |
|
|
| (1430516) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 18 10:29:38 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 18 10:07:53 2017. What subsidies, if the regulations and other associated taxes are out of the way? People still think like socialists on this matter. |
|
|
| (1430532) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Sat Mar 18 12:36:14 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 18 10:29:38 2017. What subsidies, if the regulations and other associated taxes are out of the way?To pay the costs of running the trains. For someone absolutely obsessed with the idea of the "free market," you have absolutely no clue how markets actually work. |
|
|
| (1430535) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 18 13:12:20 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Nilet on Sat Mar 18 12:36:14 2017. You aren't very smart, are you. Get the regulations out of the way and the costs of running the trains drops like a rock. That is how the free market works, and that is how the railroads worked at their best.Why do you hate trains so much? |
|
|
| (1430540) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Sat Mar 18 13:56:08 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 18 13:12:20 2017. Get the regulations out of the way and the costs of running the trains drops like a rock.Eliminate all regulations, and the cost of running the train drops. But at the same time, wages drop. Personal wealth drops. Which means people can't afford to travel, which means there's less demand for passenger rail, which means the railroads can't sell tickets. Empty trains don't make profits, so the railroads won't run them. That is how the free market works. You aren't very smart, are you? and that is how the railroads worked at their best. When? The 1950s, heyday of luxurious streamliners? The 1920s, when railroads crisscrossed the country serving practically every little town? |
|
|
| (1430546) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Mar 18 14:58:09 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Joe V on Fri Mar 17 19:13:48 2017. You're missing the point of my comment to Henry R32, it had nothing to do with trains. He's comparing the potential of Buffalo Central Terminal to the success of Denver Union Stations different mixed use elements. The problem is, in the case of Denver, part of the reason the mixed use of the building is such a success is the fact that it's immediately adjacent to downtown. It's like Tower City in Cleveland. It's woven into the fabric of downtown. Buffalo Central Terminal is nowhere near downtown. It would be an outpost all on its own.But since you bring the transit aspect into it, the reason Denver Union Station is so transit intensive is because IT'S DOWNTOWN. Buffalo Central Terminal would be a useless place as a public transportation hub because all that would be there is Central Terminal. Even with making it a mall, apartments/offices, and Amtrak, it's one building, not a major city center. |
|
|
| (1430552) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Sat Mar 18 16:27:29 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Mar 18 00:48:59 2017. We'd have to seriously define what a "passenger train" is. For instance, is it a train with at least one car for carrying passengers? Would combines count (and what percentage of the cars' space)? How many stations? What's to prevent the railroads from running freight drags with 1 passenger car stuck somewhere in it? |
|
|
| (1430553) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by pragmatist on Sat Mar 18 16:37:37 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Mar 18 14:58:09 2017. The rebound and gentrification of Lower Downtown Denver was well underway before the Union Station project was approved. |
|
|
| (1430554) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Sat Mar 18 16:42:14 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 18 13:12:20 2017. Which regulations are making passenger rail so expensive? And don't say "all of them" - I don't we want to go back to the days when track and equipment conditions were horrendous. |
|
|
| (1430555) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Sat Mar 18 16:43:51 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 18 10:07:53 2017. That would almost certainly kill most of the trains outside of the NEC and Empire corridors. |
|
|
| (1430556) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Mar 18 16:56:50 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by 3-9 on Sat Mar 18 16:27:29 2017. A raw ratio of passenger space versus freight space, maybe at a 3:1 ratio. So 170' of passenger space would be equivalent to 510' of freight. So once the revenue "passenger space" travelling along the rails exceeds that ratio to the "freight space" they get tax credits on the infrastructure that transports that passenger space. |
|
|
| (1430558) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Mar 18 17:03:09 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by 3-9 on Sat Mar 18 16:42:14 2017. Funny thing is, one revenue draining one I know of is the one regulation he probably likes: minimum manpower requirements. If someone wants to run a passenger train with just an LE and conductor, that should be allowed. The only two exceptions I know of right now are SEPTA (allows 2 man crews for trains 3 cars and shorter) and RTD (fully OPTO, dunno how the hell they pulled that off). |
|
|
| (1430559) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Mar 18 17:18:28 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by pragmatist on Sat Mar 18 16:37:37 2017. Even further proving my point! Union Stations success as a multi-use destination depended heavily on the surrounding area. |
|
|
| (1430560) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 18 18:58:57 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by 3-9 on Sat Mar 18 16:42:14 2017. And don't say "all of them" - I don't we want to go back to the days when track and equipment conditions were horrendousYou're positing a reverse argument. It was because of regulations that track and equipment became horrendous, because the private sector was not able to keep up with them, and that was by design so that the public sector would take over the parts of the rail system they wanted to keep so that it couldn't compete with their government-built roads and airports. |
|
|
| (1430561) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 18 19:01:56 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Mar 18 17:03:09 2017. one revenue draining one I know of is the one regulation he probably likes: minimum manpower requirementsNope. That was another thing that pushed the private sector out of passenger rail. If someone wants to run a passenger train with just an LE and conductor, that should be allowed That's a notion out of the public sector. Get the government out of the way and it becomes affordable to run commuter trains with more than two people. With the government in the way (and especially running the operations), it's not even "affordable" to have two crew members on board. |
|
|
| (1430562) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Sat Mar 18 19:20:14 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 18 18:58:57 2017. It was because of regulations that track and equipment became horrendousWhich regulations? |
|
|
| (1430563) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Sat Mar 18 19:22:27 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 18 19:01:56 2017. That was another thing that pushed the private sector out of passenger rail.Cars and airplanes pushed the private sector out of passenger rail. That's how free markets work. |
|
|
| (1430564) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Sat Mar 18 19:24:18 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Mar 18 00:48:59 2017. Then we'll end up with our own version of parliamentary trains. |
|
|
| (1430567) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Mar 18 19:33:27 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Nilet on Sat Mar 18 19:22:27 2017. Except for where the government was taxing the RR tickets to pay for the roads and airports that directly competed with the RRs. A truly free market would have had airports built by the airlines. |
|
|
| (1430568) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Sat Mar 18 19:41:24 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Mar 18 19:33:27 2017. And it would have had the tracks and stations built by the railroads on land purchased by the railroads. |
|
|
| (1430569) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 18 19:57:30 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by 3-9 on Sat Mar 18 16:43:51 2017. All the state-supported corridors would be safe. |
|
|
| (1430573) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 18 20:15:47 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Mar 18 19:33:27 2017. Precisely, or other investors.I still have my 1961 CNJ commuter timetable that blatantly points out the 10 percent passenger ticket tax the feds charged. None of that went into rail infrastructure. |
|
|
| (1430583) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 18 21:36:11 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by 3-9 on Sat Mar 18 16:27:29 2017. How many of those run on the railroads these days?And no, not all freights used to be drag freights. UP had modified some SD40-2s into SD40-2Hs (nicknamed "Fast Forties") in hopes of using them in high-speed freight service. Lead unit 8020 was one of them; most were geared for 80 mph, but some were geared for 90 mph.  |
|
|
| (1430606) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sun Mar 19 14:28:17 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Nilet on Sat Mar 18 19:22:27 2017. It is financially impossible for one (small) sector of an industry to be totally private sector and survive, while the rest of the industry is government run, financed, and subsidized. Anyone who got at least a C+ in College Econ 101 understands that. |
|
|
| (1430615) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Sun Mar 19 16:59:53 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Joe V on Sun Mar 19 14:28:17 2017. It's financially impossible to run a society without government-funded roads and other infrastructure.Anyone not committed to the idea that Somalia is a utopian free market wonderland understands that. In any case, railroads were government-subsidised since Day 1, so they're comparable to airlines in that respect. |
|
|
| (1430616) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sun Mar 19 17:02:57 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Nilet on Sun Mar 19 16:59:53 2017. 19th Century Land grants mean nothing today.There is no comparison between a Class I railroad that gets no government subsidy and pays property taxes to an airline, which is nothing more than a flying bus whose airport, traffic, and dispatching is done by the government. |
|
|
| (1430617) | |
Ology of Terror (Re: NY congressman Higgins writes...) |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Sun Mar 19 17:04:27 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 18 18:58:57 2017. You're positing a reverse argument. It was because of regulations that track and equipment became horrendous, because the private sector was not able to keep up with them, and that was by design so that the public sector would take over the parts of the rail system they wanted to keep so that it couldn't compete with their government-built roads and airports.Man, that conspiracy theory has got to be worth an "Ology of Terror" entry. |
|
|
| (1430618) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Sun Mar 19 17:10:17 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Joe V on Sun Mar 19 17:02:57 2017. 19th Century Land grants mean nothing today.Free infrastructure is free infrastructure. If it was paid for by the government and you're still using it, it's a subsidy. There is no comparison between a Class I railroad that gets no government subsidy and pays property taxes to an airline, which is nothing more than a flying bus whose airport, traffic, and dispatching is done by the government. A Class I railroad is a privately owned company that pays to run its own vehicles on infrastructure subsidised by the government. An airline is a privately owned company that pays to run its own vehicles on infrastructure subsidised by the government. Both pay taxes. Seems like a pretty apt comparison to me. |
|
|
| (1430621) | |
Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sun Mar 19 17:34:56 2017, in response to Re: NY congressman Higgins writes Amtrak's Moorman in support of reopening Buffalo Central Terminal, posted by Nilet on Sun Mar 19 17:10:17 2017. What does it take for you to understand ?Land Grants are NO LONGER subsidies. Nobody gives a shit about the 1890's. The railroads now OWN the land, pay property taxes on that land, and the government has nothing to do with that land. Paying property taxes occurs whether the trains runs or not. The infrastructure is NOT subsidized by the government in any way shape or form. Railroads have the own traffic control system for THEIR rights of way. Airlines do not own airports and do not control traffic - the government does. |
|
|
|
Page 3 of 6 |
||
