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| (1411054) | |
HBLR Extension |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Oct 2 16:43:32 2016 Governor Christie and the state’s top Democratic lawmakers struck a deal on Friday to modernize New Jersey’s fraying network of roads, bridges and railways in the next eight years — a renovation program that will increase costs for commuters, since the state’s gas tax will rise by 23 cents a gallon as early as next weekTo Tenafly When complete, the line will allow light rail trains to travel from Hoboken northbound, past the current terminus at Tonnelle Avenue in North Bergen, and to Ridgefield, Palisades Park and Leonia. It will have three stops in Englewood, including at Route 4 and downtown, and terminate at Englewood Hospital and Medical Center. |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by andy on Sun Oct 2 16:50:17 2016, in response to HBLR Extension, posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Oct 2 16:43:32 2016. Which old rail r.o.w. will the HBLR extension use? |
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| (1411062) | |
Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 2 17:52:47 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by andy on Sun Oct 2 16:50:17 2016. They want to do this to the Erie's Northern Branch. Last estimate for rebuilding the existing railroad was $82 million per mile. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Oct 2 19:09:01 2016, in response to HBLR Extension, posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Oct 2 16:43:32 2016. Fine by me-- I never buy gasoline in New Jersey anyway as I despise full service. An HBLR extension seems worthwhile, though. |
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| (1411088) | |
Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 2 23:26:20 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Oct 2 19:09:01 2016. Not at $82 million per mile over an existing right of way. That's more than enough to run it to Nyack, where it used to terminate. |
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| (1411107) | |
Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by ntrainride on Mon Oct 3 07:53:46 2016, in response to HBLR Extension, posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Oct 2 16:43:32 2016. read somewhere that hblr is testing five car trains. curious as to how that would impact the stations. and it would look pretty cool, i think, five car trains snaking around through the jersey city streets. |
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| (1411108) | |
Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 3 08:19:15 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by ntrainride on Mon Oct 3 07:53:46 2016. Those kind of trains won't fit at the Exchange Place station.Biggest boondoggle ever, this. That is, bigger than closing the railroads to passenger traffic in the first place. |
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| (1411152) | |
Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 3 18:03:53 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 2 23:26:20 2016. The SOB Nutley mayor doesn't want it, so NJT chickened out and cut it back to Englewood Hospital. |
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| (1411158) | |
Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Oct 3 18:36:45 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 3 08:19:15 2016. They'll fit fine if they modify the station a bit. On the York street end, take the ramps that are adjacent to the tracks and raise them to platform height. That side doesn't get much use, so having only one handicap ramp on the center platform and one on the side is fine. Currently there's 2 on the side and 3 in the center. |
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| (1411159) | |
Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Oct 3 18:38:53 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 3 18:03:53 2016. Nutley? That's nowhere near Tenafly... |
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| (1411162) | |
Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Oct 3 18:49:57 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 2 23:26:20 2016. I agree about the inflated cost. |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 3 19:35:50 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Oct 3 18:38:53 2016. Ah, yes, wrong town (had Nutley on my brain for some reason). |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 3 19:36:09 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Oct 3 18:38:53 2016. Ah, yes, wrong town (had Nutley on my brain for some reason). |
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| (1411188) | |
Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 3 21:34:24 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 3 19:36:09 2016. |
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| (1411433) | |
Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Oct 5 15:38:48 2016, in response to HBLR Extension, posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Oct 2 16:43:32 2016. Still can't decide if I'm happy with this, or if I would have rather seen commuter rail on it. If no tunnel is ever built to connect the Hoboken division with Manhattan (my idea being a tunnel via Bergen Arches into lower Manhattan) then I'd agree this is the better plan. But if we were ever to make a huge investment in expanding our mass transit infrastructure, I'd rather see the following plan enacted:1. HBLR redirected via Edgewater Tunnel (serving more of the waterfront development along the Hudson), terminating at Vince Lombardi Park and Ride, or possibly running as far as Paterson via the Cross County Line 2. The current tunnel being re-purposed as a full time XBL with a link into a new tunnel into Manhattan (and into a new PABT) 3. Commuter rail via both Northern Branch (to Nyack) and West Shore Branch (to Stony Point) The other option I would suggest is HBLR past Vince Lombardi and up the West Shore Branch to, say, Dumont, and commuter rail up the Northern Branch to Sparkill and then via the old ROW that connected it to the West Shore Branch in Orangeburg and up to Stony Point that way. Of the 2 lines, West Shore and Northern, which has the highest population density in the NJ section? |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Oct 5 16:40:41 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Oct 5 15:38:48 2016. I am not for anything that increases bus service to PABT.HBLT expansion to Tenafly is fine. |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Oct 5 18:45:42 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Joe V on Wed Oct 5 16:40:41 2016. I'm actually hoping to see decreased bus service into PABT, hence my wish to see a tunnel via Bergen Arches into Lower Manhattan. That, combined with Gateway, will open up a flood of capacity that will allow the space for several defunct services to return (Atlantic Highlands, central NJ) and some existing Hoboken services to divert some schedules into Manhattan (PVL, PJ/Main/Bergen, etc), which would replace a lot of the existing bus service. There are still a lot of areas though that are nowhere near any rail lines (active or not) that would still need their bus service. I also believe the region has grown to such a point where all modes need more capacity, so a full time bi direction dedicated bus tunnel is needed. This isn't just for access to PABT, but for all buses coming into Manhattan. |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Oct 5 19:36:28 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Oct 5 18:45:42 2016. Extending the subway to Secaucus would work better. Unless you happen to be going right to the commuter rail station, you're transferring to the subway anyway.I'm thinking a 4 track tunnel for the L and 7; run the L on local tracks and maybe have a few extra stops along the way, and the 7 on the express tracks direct to Secaucus. Since the 7 uses narrower cars, this maximizes reroute potential (or at least it would if they were both using the same CBTC system... might be some complex handoffs needed there). But assuming signalling could be worked out, both lines could use either set of tracks, except for the station itself at Secaucus. |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Oct 5 19:53:54 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Oct 5 19:36:28 2016. I strongly disagree. If anything you're just moving the transfer point to a different location, and even then, it does nothing to solve the issue of capacity for commuter rail service. Building more capacity is what allows the expansion of the commuter rail system, allowing for less dependency on bus service. |
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| (1411479) | |
Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Oct 5 20:47:16 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Oct 5 19:53:54 2016. The commuter rail system has plenty of capacity on the Hoboken division, though. The subway connection would make that side more attractive, reducing the desire for a direct bus ride. The Newark division already has the subway transfer at NYP so it probably wouldn't help much there.And buses could be diverted to Secaucus for the subway transfer. Unless you were going to the Times Square area you were transferring from a bus to subway anyway - and with both 42nd and 14st crosstowns, there's an easy path to all trunk lines (and in each place where one crosstown has a long walking transfer, the other has a short one). If you want a commuter expansion that's actually useful into Manhattan, it would need to be something elaborate, like a through running tunnel that ran up an avenue and made stops, similar to the Center City tunnel. So trains could enter either NYP or ((unnamed downtown station)) and run up/down 5th ave with stops at 4st, 14st, 23st (for example). *That* is a plan I'd get behind. |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by ntrainride on Thu Oct 6 02:47:43 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Oct 5 20:47:16 2016. well, at least path does that. (wasn't there a plan to extend path out to...somewhere further west?plainfield?). personally, i dont like the concept of mega stations. too damn crowded. grand central terminal is about the best as far as that goes. we'll see what happens though, when lirr gets there. |
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| (1411535) | |
Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Oct 6 06:49:40 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by ntrainride on Thu Oct 6 02:47:43 2016. The LIRR concourse will be off to the west of most GCT activity. There will be some crossing of paths for those LIRR commuters heading to the 4/5/6 and office buildings east of GCT or MNRR customers heading to the 45th Street exit, but mostly the two streams of commuters won't intersect. |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 6 07:46:56 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Oct 5 19:53:54 2016. I am also a big believer in #7 to Secaucus. Yes, give people the option of moving the transfer point west of Manhattan, and reduce bus volume.You also can't keep stuffing everybody and their uncle into Penn Station. It already handles 650,000 people. You seem to forget that an extended #7 adds rail capacity as well as Gateway. So for the $10B price of rebuilding PABT, we could extend #7 and have rail capacity tripled. Instead of $1B building out 10th Avenue station, build a North Hoboken intermediate station, and intercept more buses and HBLRT. Don't expect any real expansion of the NJT rail system in our lifetimes. Other than MOM, Lackawanna Cutoff, P-Purg, and West Trenton would never be heavy hitters if they were to happen. |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by BMRR on Thu Oct 6 08:06:16 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 6 07:46:56 2016. Secaucus to Main street-would there be a additional fare zone? |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Thu Oct 6 08:24:16 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 6 07:46:56 2016. I don't think he necessarily "forgot".Where are you getting your costs from? |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Thu Oct 6 08:25:48 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by BMRR on Thu Oct 6 08:06:16 2016. Your guess is as good as mine. A better question is: "do you think there should be a another fare zone?" |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 6 09:02:21 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by BMRR on Thu Oct 6 08:06:16 2016. However the subsidies work out. I am just speaking of the physical service. |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 6 09:03:54 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by TerrApin Station on Thu Oct 6 08:24:16 2016. He may have assumed #7 instead of Gateway. I have spoken to the project managers at Parson who did the engineering studies. They actually think it would around $8B, 2 years ago. |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by ntrainride on Thu Oct 6 11:28:37 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by AlM on Thu Oct 6 06:49:40 2016. yeah, i was thinking about people headed for the subways. overall, the numbers will increase. |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Oct 6 13:19:21 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 6 09:03:54 2016. $8B for #7 to SEC. What about for the bus terminal? Where did you get your number from? |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 6 14:02:15 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Oct 6 13:19:21 2016. Bus terminal number is in most of the new articles about it and say $10B, plus a $1bB build out of the 10th Ave station. |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Oct 6 14:09:02 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 6 14:02:15 2016. No, $10B is not correct. There are five finalists for the PABT Design Competition. None are $10B, and the majority are less than that. |
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| (1411588) | |
Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 6 14:12:45 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Oct 6 14:09:02 2016. Repeat: $10B is the number that was in most articles, regardless of the 5 finalist article. |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Oct 6 14:20:18 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 6 14:12:45 2016. Repeat: $10B is wrong. Just because you read it in an article doesn't mean it is correct.OH, LOL! I googled it! $10B is a PANYNJ estimate from months and months ago!!! Has nothing to do with the real design proposals! LOL! |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 6 14:23:25 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Oct 6 14:20:18 2016. All I said is it was in most of the articles.We also know from the WTC that whatever number it is, it won't stick. |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Oct 6 14:25:20 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 6 14:23:25 2016. It's NOT in most of the articles! It's in the articles from months ago. And if it's in the recent articles, it's only to compare to the actual cost estimates that just came in, |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 6 14:28:09 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Oct 6 14:25:20 2016. Which range between $3.7B and $15.3B |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Oct 6 14:40:58 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 6 14:28:09 2016. Correct!!!!!!!!!!! But they do not average $10B! |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Oct 7 11:17:39 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 6 07:46:56 2016. With the #7 now going to 34th St.-Hudson Yards, and having tail tracks that continue well south of there (I think to 25th St.?), it is no longer even heading toward Secaucus at the end of the currently existing trackage. So an extension there would not seem likely at all. Not that it ever really did; the political dealing that would have to be made to run NYC subways in New Jersey presented a massive obstacle itself. And if an extra fare was to be charged, how would that be handled? Something like the way it used to be done in the Rockaways seems to be the only practical possibility; the extra fare would be paid to exit the station in NJ, not just to ride there. These days, there would be no need to make the fare exactly double the base fare though; any differential could be charged. |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Oct 7 11:25:03 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Oct 7 11:17:39 2016. The 7 could split at 10th Ave with only half the trains going to NJ. That's still the equivalent of about 5 buses per minute. |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Oct 7 12:12:29 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Oct 7 11:17:39 2016. The maps accompanying the proposal show the line splitting off just south of the 34th St. terminal to turn west to NJ. |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 7 12:33:07 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by AlM on Fri Oct 7 11:25:03 2016. The proposal the FORMER Mayor came up with was a deep level station at the pier..then a Hudson River crossing..deep level station at Hoboken.Phase 2 would push to the rail station in Secaucus. |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Oct 7 18:18:26 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Oct 7 11:17:39 2016. You need to read the Parsons-Brinkerhoff engineering report. Tail tracks are known and accounted for. These folks are not idiots.I am not going to get into this state boundary nonsense. Metro North is also a NYS chartered railroad and runs deep into Connecticut. There is also a MTA police station within the Bridgeport, CT rail station. And then NJT runs well into New York State to Spring Valley and Port Jervis with a MN subsidy. |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Oct 7 22:33:23 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 7 12:33:07 2016. In Hoboken? There's already rail service from there to Secaucus. Or would this be further north in Hoboken, maybe around Stevens Tech? |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Oct 8 07:23:16 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Oct 7 22:33:23 2016. A #7 to Secaucus would pass beneath northern Hoboken, so a station there would be another place to intercept bus and HBLRT riders to take them to 42nd Street.Think about the possibilities if HBLRT ever gets extended to Staten Island. |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Sun Oct 9 11:26:55 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Joe V on Fri Oct 7 18:18:26 2016. You are so worldly. The women must love you. You get a lot of action? |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Sun Oct 9 22:14:33 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by TerrApin Station on Sun Oct 9 11:26:55 2016. Bump |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by ntrainride on Sun Oct 9 23:28:21 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by TerrApin Station on Sun Oct 9 11:26:55 2016. soooo ghey, that remark. |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Mon Oct 10 01:11:04 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by ntrainride on Sun Oct 9 23:28:21 2016. Like you? |
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Re: HBLR Extension |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Oct 11 18:28:38 2016, in response to Re: HBLR Extension, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Oct 5 20:47:16 2016. How many more TPH could Hoboken handle? There's at least 6 new services that could be implemented to replace or reduce bus service. Even if it's true that HOB has spare capacity, there's still the issue of the West Shore/Northern Branches (whichever were to be used) not being able to access it. Diverting buses to Secaucus is also a huge mistake, because unless you work along the 7 or L, you're adding a transfer on to peoples existing commutes. Aside from the 7, PABT also has A,C,E,1,2,3,N,Q,R, so anyone working along any of those would now have to add taking the 7 to their trip. Anything that goes to NYP has 1,2,3, A,C,E and if they'd open up the passage to Herald Square, B,D,F,M,N,Q,R as well. If a tunnel would be built to downtown, you'd have all the connections at Fulton St/Oculus/Stegosaurus Transit Center Mall skating-rink-any-time-it-rains thingy. Why would anyone give up a direct bus ride to the PABT for an extra subway transfer? Whatever gets done has to make sense, and the 7/L extension doesn't. As for a thru running tunnel, what connecting Gateway with ESA and possibly even the lower Montauk? This would allow anything coming in via Gateway to serve both NYP and GCT, really covering midtown and taking a huge strain off the E train. In lower Manhattan, it could extend to the Atlantic Av branch of the LIRR. I'm not suggesting full blown thru running from Trenton to Ronkonkoma here, but something more reasonable could be possible.Just out of curiosity, is there any info on what % of boardings at Hoboken go to WTC vs midtown? |
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