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| Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions (503663) | |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Apr 14 17:19:39 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by renee gil on Fri Sep 6 22:54:51 2013. Thanks, Renee! I printed a copy of this for future reference. I hope that everyone else here will do the same. |
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| (1392441) | |
Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by Renee gil on Fri Apr 15 02:46:37 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Apr 14 17:19:39 2016. you're welcome |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Apr 15 17:48:45 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by Norwood205th on Thu Apr 14 16:14:11 2016. to prevent the b/b`s from damage in case of a collision of course. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by Mkeit on Fri Apr 15 19:14:13 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by Howard Fein on Thu Oct 18 08:24:46 2007. You can walk into the parking lot on the west side of 4th Ave and see the trains pass over the Bay Ridge. No one will bother you.Line. |
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| (1393241) | |
Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by Norwood205th on Sat Apr 23 02:12:06 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Apr 15 17:48:45 2016. So basically, they're similar to derails? |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 23 02:14:44 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by Norwood205th on Sat Apr 23 02:12:06 2016. Nope ... that's the "final crunch" to slow things down a bit before hitting that big spring. |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by Norwood205th on Sat Apr 23 02:18:46 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 23 02:14:44 2016. I'd need an MTA to visualize such a structure. |
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| (1393245) | |
Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 23 02:29:22 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by Norwood205th on Sat Apr 23 02:18:46 2016. Yeah, went looking for a photo, didn't find any. But yeah, that's designed to protect you from smacking the wall at speed, because motormen have been killed there as a result. |
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| (1393246) | |
Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by Norwood205th on Sat Apr 23 02:51:14 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 23 02:29:22 2016. To think that MTA workers have died in that tunnel. I don't know how to look at those stubs now. |
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| (1393247) | |
Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 23 02:53:46 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by Norwood205th on Sat Apr 23 02:51:14 2016. Some really horrific ones too. :( |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by Norwood205th on Sat Apr 23 02:56:43 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 23 02:53:46 2016. I should love to be down there at night - Jamaica-179th Street, the Haunted Hub of Hillside Avenue, Queens, NY. |
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| (1393249) | |
Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 23 03:01:59 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by Norwood205th on Sat Apr 23 02:56:43 2016. 04/25/1986. "The motorman, Alick Williams, 54 years old, of St. Albans, Queens, suffered a heart attack, apparently causing the IND train he was operating to derail in a tunnel near the 179th Street station in Jamaica, Queens, at 11:10 P.M. ... [he was] turn[ing] the train around on a relay track near the end of the F line [when he] crashed into a wooden barrier at the end of the tunnel. Mr. Williams... was trapped in the wreckage of the first car, [and] was pronounced dead at the scene. A conductor who was in the fourth car of the eight-car train was unharmed. There were no passengers on board." -- New York Times, 4/27/1986.
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by Norwood205th on Sat Apr 23 03:09:11 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 23 03:01:59 2016. Oh dear. That is a grisly sight. |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 23 03:14:58 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by Norwood205th on Sat Apr 23 03:09:11 2016. Told ya. :( |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Apr 23 07:58:58 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 23 03:01:59 2016. OUCH!!!! |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Apr 24 13:28:02 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by Renee gil on Fri Apr 15 02:46:37 2016. thats one heck of a list..but if you are including elevated structure,then dont forget the Livonia El provision along New Lots. |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Apr 24 18:11:24 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by Edwards! on Sun Apr 24 13:28:02 2016. and its terminal was to be.........................76st!for real. |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by Renee gil on Sun Apr 24 18:44:18 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by Edwards! on Sun Apr 24 13:28:02 2016. yeah, I knew I missed a few. thanks. |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by Renee gil on Sun Apr 24 20:20:17 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by 3-9 on Tue Dec 17 18:24:17 2013. yes it is. |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 24 23:50:01 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Dec 17 17:39:08 2013. yes, the Second Ave Subway |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 25 07:25:34 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by randyo on Mon Sep 23 18:08:44 2013. On East Houston, it's readily apparent that the street was widened- many old buildings have their sides, not fronts, facing Houston- and the sides look rough, indicating that another building likely once existed right next to the existing structures.A similar effect can be seen on the east side of 3rd Avenue in Brooklyn, where the Gowanus Expwy was widened in 1959 or so. I say "similar", as on 3rd Avenue, it seems that all of the building demolition took place on the east side of the street, whereas on Houston, it seems to jump between the north and south sides... |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by GIS Man on Mon Apr 25 09:42:24 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 25 07:25:34 2016. Check the 1924 aerials. Houston St. shown here.Bob http://gis.nyc.gov/doitt/nycitymap/?z=8&p=985871,203355&c=GIS1924 |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 25 14:30:49 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by GIS Man on Mon Apr 25 09:42:24 2016. That seems to prove it... |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 25 17:47:39 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Dec 17 17:39:08 2013. If you think about it, the SAS is part of the IND Second System and the only one that will be at least partially completed although nowhere near what was originally planned. |
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| (1393515) | |
Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Apr 25 17:52:18 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 25 17:47:39 2016. Was the original planned station shelled out for an express or local stop? |
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| (1393531) | |
Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Mon Apr 25 19:16:40 2016, in response to Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by G1Ravage on Wed Oct 17 02:42:24 2007. Posted by randyo on Mon Oct 24 16:43:40 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 21 09:58:52 2011. "I never heard of any plans to eliminate the Bway IRT to V/C although it does look like there is a provision for extension of the IND past 207 St." Have any of you guys heard of this provision. I hadn't heard of it until I was looking in old posts. |
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| (1393552) | |
Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 25 21:04:28 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision, posted by Union Tpke on Mon Apr 25 19:16:40 2016. Have any of you guys heard of this provision. I hadn't heard of it until I was looking in old posts.It helps when you provide a link to the post you are talking about: Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus (1111743) |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Apr 25 21:29:00 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 25 17:47:39 2016. Actually,the SAS was a First system route that was moved to the back burner.The route was originally the trunk for the Concourse line...actually playing up to Hylans desire to remove all elevated roads... When the city actually gave thought to the massive undertaking,it was a no brainer to hold off on building the massive subway and roadway under 2nd Avenue. With the,cancellation of the 10th AVE and 34th st subways...the Concourse was routed to the west side.... The 2nd ave roadway was built,but farther east along the East River. The subway,however,was also built..as a short 4 track line with One station in lower Manhattan. |
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| (1393585) | |
Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by K. Trout on Tue Apr 26 01:23:15 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Apr 25 17:52:18 2016. Going by the blueprints on Joe Korman's site, it could have gone either way...one shows a 4-track, 3-platform express stop, with the downtown and Brooklyn branches diverging south of Grand St; others show the Brooklyn branch diverging north of Houston and a 2-track station at Houston.Note that both plans involve two side platforms, which possibly explains the confusion in what's been observed as built. It's quite clever - with the former, they could use the platforms as built and add the center platform later; with the latter, the side platforms can be extended inwards to fill the available space. |
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| (1393633) | |
Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Apr 26 15:38:09 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by Edwards! on Mon Apr 25 21:29:00 2016. From some of the documentation I have seen, the SAS was supposed to connect to 2 branch lines in the Bronx one up Alexander Av and Morris Pk Ave and the other, along some street I can’t remember up to the East Bronx near Unionport. The Concourse connection to the 8 and eventually the 6 Av line was intended as a replacement for the 6 and 9 Av els which went up Jerome Av. I never heard anything about a 2 Av “roadway” just a subway and I haven’t seen any documentation about any constructed 4 track portion of it or any station in lower Manhattan. Where is your documentation? The outer portions of the Bx lines were to be elevated and one of them, I believe the Morris Pk Av branch was to have connected with the proposed extension of the Concourse Line east of 205 St. Plans were modified after the city took over the NYW&B ROW to drop the Morris Pk Av Line and instead connect the SAS to the Dyre Line including the portion of the ROW between Harlem River and E 180. |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Apr 27 00:43:31 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by randyo on Tue Apr 26 15:38:09 2016. You can't be serious.The 4 track line is in use everyday...and,Im sure youve been inside the ONLY SAS station built until recent times.im gonna let YOU sit on that one and figure it out. The ORIGINAL PLAN for the IND had several north south routes in Manhattan (10th Ave,8th Ave,6th Ave,and 2nd Ave).. The Plan had the 8th and 2nd Ave lines coming FIRST to handle both westside and eastside services...with the 10 ave and 6th ave coming next,with a 34th st crosstown subway connecting them. MONEY and Political wrangling 1changed the direction of the plans,which is the very REASON the SECOND system came about...and Why the 6th ave replaced the SAS in the construction schedule...and Why the 10th ave and 34 st line were deferred to oblivion. |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Apr 27 18:05:41 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by Edwards! on Wed Apr 27 00:43:31 2016. The only station I can think of that was originally intended for the SAS is Grand St and how much of a provision for 2 extra tracks is there is questionable. |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Thu Jul 14 19:24:48 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision, posted by Union Tpke on Mon Apr 25 19:16:40 2016. I know that this has been months, but I would still like to learn more. |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision |
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Posted by renee gil on Thu Jul 14 21:13:14 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision, posted by Union Tpke on Thu Jul 14 19:24:48 2016. There is NO provision for extension of the 8th Avenue subway past 207 Street station. 207th Street station is just another stub end terminal, like the 95th Street station on the R. |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Jul 14 21:30:49 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision, posted by renee gil on Thu Jul 14 21:13:14 2016. My late 1920's Nostrand's (undated) map of New York City shows a terminal under 207th St, itself, at 10th Ave. The rest of the line is basically the same. |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision |
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Posted by renee gil on Thu Jul 14 21:38:28 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Jul 14 21:30:49 2016. 207th Street & 10th Avenue is where the tunnel portal to the 207th Street Yard is located at -- and the 207th Street station on the #1 line as well. |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Jul 14 23:14:35 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision, posted by Union Tpke on Mon Apr 25 19:16:40 2016. It's been mentioned here that there was at one time a plan to extend the A train to Riverdale, with the line going under Riverdale Ave. How far it might have gone, I'm not sure. All the way to the Yonkers line? At any rate, the people then living in Riverdale didn't want it, so the idea was cancelled. |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision |
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Posted by renee gil on Thu Jul 14 23:35:53 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision, posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Jul 14 23:14:35 2016. That may be true, but it was obviously never built. |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jul 14 23:38:05 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision, posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Jul 14 23:14:35 2016. Plan was to 262nd. Riverdale Historical Society used to have the proposal map, saw it when I was in grade school to give you an idea of how long ago THAT was. :) |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision |
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Posted by renee gil on Thu Jul 14 23:40:27 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jul 14 23:38:05 2016. Interesting. |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jul 14 23:44:18 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision, posted by renee gil on Thu Jul 14 23:40:27 2016. From what I recall, it was a proposal, not a contract drawing. Apparently it got shot down rather quickly. It was proposed in the mid-1930's somewhere. |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision |
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Posted by renee gil on Thu Jul 14 23:45:27 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jul 14 23:44:18 2016. still interesting nonetheless |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jul 14 23:53:51 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision, posted by renee gil on Thu Jul 14 23:45:27 2016. Mayor Hylan's 1920 plan was all I could ever find, but the idea was resurrected after the IND reached 207th to little interest in Riverdale. Here's all I could ever find though all these years later:
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision |
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Posted by renee gil on Thu Jul 14 23:56:44 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jul 14 23:53:51 2016. Wow. I never seen that map before. Notice that Manhattan has more subway lines than the outer boroughs. Thanks for posting. |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jul 15 00:36:53 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision, posted by renee gil on Thu Jul 14 23:56:44 2016. so sad allof thatwasn't built. |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision |
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Posted by renee gil on Fri Jul 15 06:49:14 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jul 15 00:36:53 2016. I know, right? |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Jul 15 07:14:05 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jul 14 23:53:51 2016. Good God. It seems like that was designed to eliminate those subway "deserts" that another map has shown. It's an almost-regular "grid" of subway lines. Three lines from Staten Island to Bayonne?? (Well, one seems to end in the water.)As for the A to Riverdale Ave., I'm wondering how it would have gotten there. Broadway to 230th, then left and right on Riverdale? Or diagonally under private property? Looking at a map, I see it could have turned off Broadway around 218th and gone under Baker Field, then through the valley west of Marble Hill (the original course of the Harlem River), the area where JFK High School now is, and come out at 230th and Riverdale. |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jul 15 07:33:26 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by Michael549 on Wed Oct 17 03:24:09 2007. IIRC, the Queens Super-Express was supposed to emerge from the tunnel in Queens and run on the LIRR tracks to Jamaica and then to Archer Avenue. |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision |
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Posted by Dan on Fri Jul 15 09:27:03 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions [Randyo] 207th Street Provision, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jul 14 23:53:51 2016. Very optimistic but looks like Hylan just took a red pen and drew in routes wherever he felt like it. |
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Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jul 15 10:45:31 2016, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jul 15 07:33:26 2016. No. It was supposed to connect to the Queens Boulevard line at Yellowstone Boulevard. |
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