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| (1380317) | |
Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 7 21:52:49 2016 Interesting reading |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Thu Jan 7 22:20:26 2016, in response to Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 7 21:52:49 2016. Excellent. Thanx for sharing. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by The Silence on Thu Jan 7 22:25:10 2016, in response to Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 7 21:52:49 2016. "A public hearing was held, but opponents to the plan felt they were being railroaded"Someone thinks they're punny.... |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Express Rider on Fri Jan 8 04:38:35 2016, in response to Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 7 21:52:49 2016. Thank you for sharing also.I have cut and pasted this into a WORD doc and saved in my BMT transit folder. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Jan 8 05:09:56 2016, in response to Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 7 21:52:49 2016. Thanks for that.Its strange to see people actually fought so hard Not to have a certain mode of transit services operated through their neighborhood,while others begged for it. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Jan 8 09:32:23 2016, in response to Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 7 21:52:49 2016. Fascinating stuff, thanks. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri Jan 8 10:56:09 2016, in response to Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 7 21:52:49 2016. Same deal with the surface el trains. They had this and that complaint about it, but the bottom line was they simply didn't want it and got a court order to discontinue it (which the BRT did immediately), so it lasted less than a year. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Q4 on Fri Jan 8 11:02:58 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Jan 8 09:32:23 2016. Thanks for sharing. I like Raskin wonder if they had voted the elevated down, if they would have ever gotten a subway. It could have been included as part of the IND's first system or been another planned but not built part of the second. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Jan 8 11:06:17 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Q4 on Fri Jan 8 11:02:58 2016. Just to be clear, what is the Jamaica Ave EL considered - starting at Cypress Hills, which would include the S curve? So the Fulton St portion has nothing to do with this, right?If this is all true, I would guess that if Jamaica Ave didn't get an EL the Fulton Street portion would have been extended in some other way over time to places more accepting. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Jan 8 11:09:14 2016, in response to Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 7 21:52:49 2016. Chris: Its nice to hear from you. That's an interesting article aobut the Jamaica El.Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Jan 8 11:15:39 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Edwards! on Fri Jan 8 05:09:56 2016. There have always been NIMBYs. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 8 11:34:48 2016, in response to Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 7 21:52:49 2016. Thanks for sharing. Very Interesting.Makes me wonder if the El would have been built had the Malbone St wreck happened any sooner. That wreck bankrupted the BRT. Would a bankrupt BRT been able to build the El? I doubt it. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri Jan 8 11:39:32 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 8 11:34:48 2016. Since the Jamaica El was a Dual Contract project, the BRT bankruptcy wouldn't have had any affect on it, one way or another.Many lines were built or completed after November 1, 1918. |
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| (1380362) | |
Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri Jan 8 11:42:47 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Jan 8 11:06:17 2016. There could have been the possibility of extending service to Jamaica via the Chestnut Street ramp, if an interline agreement could have been concluded. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by BMRR on Fri Jan 8 13:12:40 2016, in response to Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 7 21:52:49 2016. Thanks for posting, very interesting. Noiseless HA. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by The silence on Fri Jan 8 13:33:10 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Jan 8 11:06:17 2016. In the circumstances they are referring to the section above Jamaica Avenue.Personally, it's Jamaica as far as Broadway Junction, and then "Broadway-Brooklyn" to the bridge. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri Jan 8 13:55:34 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by The silence on Fri Jan 8 13:33:10 2016. According to NYRT blueprints, its Broadway L until the curve at Crescent and Jamaica, and then Jamaica L from there out. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by The Silence on Fri Jan 8 14:53:50 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 8 11:34:48 2016. dual contracts = city money. it didn't matter how much the operator's capital budget was. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 8 15:00:12 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Jan 8 11:06:17 2016. More than likely, if the Jamaica Av el had not been built, a subway along Jamaica Av from the Fulton St subway at ENY to Jamaica might very well have been built and possibly even as a full 4 track subway with express service. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Jan 8 15:12:38 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by randyo on Fri Jan 8 15:00:12 2016. Doubtful. Pre-IND, all subway lines in Queens were els. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri Jan 8 16:23:48 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by italianstallion on Fri Jan 8 15:12:38 2016. I can't think of any instance in New York where people resisted an el and they were rewarded with a subway.I can think of a few instances where people successfully resisted an el and got nothing in return. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Jan 8 16:25:18 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by SLRT on Fri Jan 8 16:23:48 2016. Yep. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jan 8 16:54:34 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by SLRT on Fri Jan 8 16:23:48 2016. The Archer Ave subway- some reward! The Jamaica el had to come down for that piece of mob-built overpriced garbage? |
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| (1380426) | |
Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 8 18:57:57 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by italianstallion on Fri Jan 8 15:12:38 2016. Actually, I was referring to an IND extension of the Fulton St subway when the IND eventually came along. |
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| (1380429) | |
Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 8 19:10:57 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Jan 8 11:06:17 2016. If they could not build along Jamaica Av, I think BRT what have said to Richmond Hill and Woodhaven, "fuck you, walk to the Liberty Av el or the LIRR on Atlantic" (which still had a rapid transit service).Maybe they would have reactivated the Chesnut Street Incline and sent those trains to Jamaica (and Queens Village and Valley Stream), which is not a bad idea anyway. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Qveensboro_plaza on Fri Jan 8 19:48:52 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by SLRT on Fri Jan 8 16:23:48 2016. A few years after this episode, the residents of Williamsburg and Bushwick successfully resisted an el through their neighborhoods for the 14th Street - Canarsie line. That's the only time I can recall a community actually getting a subway. |
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| (1380435) | |
Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri Jan 8 21:10:21 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Qveensboro_plaza on Fri Jan 8 19:48:52 2016. That's a good point, though I think that was an exceptional circumstance because the line was partially built and needed to be completed one way or the other. |
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| (1380436) | |
Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by jimmymc25 on Fri Jan 8 21:14:12 2016, in response to Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 7 21:52:49 2016. Good stuff.....Thanks Chris!Jimmymc25 |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jan 9 01:51:01 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Qveensboro_plaza on Fri Jan 8 19:48:52 2016. If I recall from “Routes Not Taken” the original Crosstown Line was supposed to be elevated from Qnsbro Plz south approximately along the route of the present G line. Community opposition delayed it until the IND came along and built it as a subway. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Jan 9 05:40:44 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jan 8 16:54:34 2016. Not to mention the fact that because of that dirty dealing,both on the mob and city\states government...none.of those subway expansion projects were ever completed.Even unto this very day,when the REAL NEED for them exists. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Bob Andersen on Sat Jan 9 09:31:05 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Qveensboro_plaza on Fri Jan 8 19:48:52 2016. The third track on the Myrtle Ave. line north of Broadway was built in anticipation of a connection with that Canarsie El near Wyckoff. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Think twice on Sat Jan 9 10:04:34 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by BMRR on Fri Jan 8 13:12:40 2016. "It glides as softly as a cloud." — Lyle Lanleyegotripexpress.com |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Think twice on Sat Jan 9 10:05:11 2016, in response to Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 7 21:52:49 2016. Great article. Thanks for posting.egotripexpress.com |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jan 9 14:57:36 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Q4 on Fri Jan 8 11:02:58 2016. Doubt it, Jamaica Ave would have been a difficult road to build a subway under, it's just too serpentine. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jan 9 14:59:51 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Jan 8 11:09:14 2016. I'm still around, just a lot busier these days. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Jan 9 15:00:15 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jan 9 14:57:36 2016. you mean just like the carnarsie line was. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jan 9 15:04:05 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by BMRR on Fri Jan 8 13:12:40 2016. I have a rare photo of the BRT representative at these community meetings:
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jan 9 15:05:32 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Jan 9 15:00:15 2016. That route turned off and on many straight roads. Jamaica Ave is, by it's historical nature, a collection of constant curves. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 9 15:30:27 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jan 9 15:05:32 2016. Hard to keep the staggered rail joints evenly staggered through all those curves. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sat Jan 9 20:12:54 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jan 9 15:04:05 2016. Wow! Can you send me that picture on a postcard! |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jan 9 23:52:14 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Union Tpke on Sat Jan 9 20:12:54 2016. That's the postage stamp, silly. :) |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Jan 10 11:30:34 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by BMRR on Fri Jan 8 13:12:40 2016. In the words of Mister Bill, define noiseless. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jan 11 10:35:06 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 9 15:30:27 2016. It would also have made a third track express run rough on the neck, speeding 50 MPH through all those back and forth curves. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jan 11 15:16:49 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jan 11 10:35:06 2016. Even if the locals short-turned at 111th St and the expresses made all stops to 168th St, after that? |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jan 11 15:33:21 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jan 9 14:57:36 2016. Any worse than the Concourse or Queens Blvd? |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 11 19:01:08 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jan 11 10:35:06 2016. Sort of like the Lex between 14th and 34th ?(They don't do 50 there). |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 11 19:01:39 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jan 11 10:35:06 2016. I meant B.B. and 14th. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jan 13 07:16:50 2016, in response to Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 7 21:52:49 2016. Very interesting indeed. Interesting how 50 years later, in the 1968 "Plan for Action", the phony arguments for demolition got started. Maybe some folks in the neighborhood had long memories, and recalled how they never wanted the line in the first place... and put the bug in Ronan's and Rockefeller's heads to get rid of the line. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Jan 13 18:45:59 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 11 19:01:08 2016. You mean the Park Ave. straightaway? Too bad I didn't ride on that stretch in the olden days. Those SMEEs must have screamed on the express tracks. |
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Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jan 14 08:10:10 2016, in response to Re: Article: The Unpopular Birth Of The Jamaica Ave EL, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jan 13 07:16:50 2016. A hell of a lot of houses went up in Woodhaven and Richmond Hill, many without driveways, in anticipation of the Jamaica el. Can you say "Brooklyn Manor", which was a real estate term for some of them. They owe their existence to the el. |
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