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| Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly (1351660) | |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Charles G on Wed May 13 16:05:14 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 13 15:35:07 2015. From the articles I've seen the on board equipment has not yet been analyzed -- but I have not been exhaustive in my research.https://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/national/2015/05/ap_estimates_train_in_deadly_crash_was_traveling_107_mph http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ntsb-amtrak-train-was-going-more-than-100-mph-before-deadly-crash/ |
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Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before: |
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Posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Wed May 13 16:09:09 2015, in response to Incident to SEPTA there minutes before:, posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 10:37:49 2015. Adding requisite uncertainty to timestamps and taking into account confusion of location, I'm quite willing to believe that derailment and caternary damage at one location could cause caternary to droop and damage windshield of nearby train. |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by alm on Wed May 13 16:35:57 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Charles G on Wed May 13 16:05:14 2015. The current NY Times article has an oddly worded sentence. The train was going over 100 mph and they have the black box, but no indication that the latter is the source of the former. |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed May 13 17:05:33 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by alm on Wed May 13 16:35:57 2015. One of the many articles on this crash.Crash |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed May 13 17:27:25 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 07:50:47 2015. Speed limit is enforced by cab signal indication westbound, but not eastbound.Why not? |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Charles G on Wed May 13 17:38:32 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by alm on Wed May 13 16:35:57 2015. At least one of the articles I cited is similar. A casual reader can infer that the black box is the source -- especially when the NTSB has apparently also said speed was excessive -- but there is no source for the speed other than the video analysis I mentioned. |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 13 17:39:26 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by alm on Wed May 13 16:35:57 2015. Mayor Nutter stated last night on channel 10 that "Amtrak officials told me that the information can be downloaded remotely from the train and they've already done that." What that means of course could be anything from soup to nuts but the indication is that they already had the info last night. |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by alm on Wed May 13 17:41:17 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Charles G on Wed May 13 17:38:32 2015. Do you have permission to post on Subchat? You said "infer" when you meant "infer." |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 13 17:47:03 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by 3-9 on Wed May 13 17:27:25 2015. Probably no transponder installed there yet. :( |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed May 13 17:49:16 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 13 17:47:03 2015. I really, really hope that isn't the only reason. :-( |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Dave on Wed May 13 17:50:40 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Charles G on Wed May 13 17:38:32 2015. NTSB reported the speed was 102 mph. |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed May 13 17:53:11 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Wed May 13 13:54:01 2015. Not at that point. Still around 80 when the crash happened and very typical for a summer night at that point.The one thing that COULD be a factor is we've had very warm weather the past few weeks after what had been the coldest first half of spring since 1967 (coldest spring on record) that was so cold and snowy it actually delayed the start of turf racing at Aqueduct by two weeks. The extremely cold late February and early March followed by a cold late March-early April before it got warm could have contributed to this. |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Charles G on Wed May 13 17:54:28 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Dave on Wed May 13 17:50:40 2015. Right. But they didn't report the source of that 102 mph.Ultimately it doesn't matter. It's pretty clear the train was going way too fast. 102, 106, 107. All are more than double the limit. So now it's a "why?" issue. |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 13 18:01:45 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by 3-9 on Wed May 13 17:49:16 2015. Yeah, tax cuts and congress keep pushing that fixer-upper funding out again and again. Right now, they're pushing away this year's finish it up deadline out to 2020. What could POSSIBLY go wrong? :( |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 13 18:02:28 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Charles G on Wed May 13 17:54:28 2015. Sure hope it isn't ... "Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz." :( |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by alm on Wed May 13 18:06:23 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 13 18:02:28 2015. No reason for going 102 is really any better than any other. |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed May 13 18:10:44 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 13 18:02:28 2015. Not likely given they had just left 30th Street within 20 minutes of this, though it is possible for sure. |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 13 18:11:16 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by alm on Wed May 13 18:06:23 2015. Yep. When I saw how the train landed and where on a map, I knew it was Spuyten Duyvil redux. :(I fear it may turn out to be even more Spuyten Duyvil once the information is in. |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 13 18:12:49 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed May 13 18:10:44 2015. You never know if it's sleep apnea behind it. Onset of a fast doze off can happen very quickly. |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 18:16:12 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 13 18:12:49 2015. MN had a deadman control, obviously not very effective.This engine has to have an Alerter, supposedly more foolproof. |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 13 18:17:59 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 18:16:12 2015. Probably did. But alerters can become an autonomic reaction to just hit it even if you're half asleep. That's why the push for full PTC. |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 13 18:26:15 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 18:16:12 2015. Considering the alerter only goes off if there are no inputs on the controller for a certain amount of time IIRC (that's what I recall it doing during a cab ride I had back on the Acela Express in September 2001), I'm not sure that is significantly more foolproof than deadmans. |
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Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before: |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed May 13 21:15:41 2015, in response to Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before:, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 13 13:08:18 2015. Well that's the smart way to handle things even if you're innocent. Chalking things up to operator error makes things easier on many fronts, except for the operator of course. |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed May 13 22:13:47 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by alm on Wed May 13 18:06:23 2015. Brake or cab signal failure? |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed May 13 22:14:35 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 13 18:17:59 2015. The alerter makes me think of the snooze on my alarm clock... |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed May 13 22:36:46 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 13 18:01:45 2015. Guess that was the reason after all. :-( |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 13 23:11:37 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed May 13 22:14:35 2015. Exactly the problem. :( |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 13 23:12:23 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 13 18:26:15 2015. Yep. Which is why you just wiggle stuff to keep it from going off. |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 14 00:15:27 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 13 18:01:45 2015. This just gets even MORE shameful. *AFTER* this wreck here's the latest on what's going to be done about it. :(Positive train control automatically slows or even halts trains moving too fast or heading into a danger zone. Under current law, the rail industry must adopt the technology by year-end. The crash came a day before the House Appropriations Committee approved a transportation budget for the next fiscal year that included a funding cut for Amtrak. One amendment proposed by Democrats called for $825 million in capital investments in PTC technologies for passenger rail, but it was blocked by the Republican majority. Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/14/us-usa-train-derailment-idUSKBN0NY04E20150514?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Thu May 14 00:23:56 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 14 00:15:27 2015. Where was ACSES? Amtrak has a lot of blood on their hands in this one. I understand it took the freight railroads years and years to make a new PTC system. Amtrak has had one that works since 1999. All they had to do was install it. No need to reinvent the wheel here. What has taken them so long? |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 14 00:25:39 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by ElectricTraction on Thu May 14 00:23:56 2015. Ain't coming anytime soon either.http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=1351850 Looks like that blood is in DC. |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu May 14 01:14:27 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 07:50:47 2015. There is also this: (From Facebook) I see six hits, likely from projectiles or gunfire. That may indicate that the engineer may have been incapacitated or not able to see where he was. |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 14 01:39:42 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by AMoreira81 on Thu May 14 01:14:27 2015. FBI and DHS were among the first on the scene, and the first thing they looked at was that windscreen. They determined the night of the crash that "terrorism" of any sort had been ruled out, and that would have included any gunfire.If you've ever seen the aftermath of a derailment where a locomotive goes on the ground, the damage is consistent with flying ballast. |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by AlM on Thu May 14 02:11:53 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by AMoreira81 on Thu May 14 01:14:27 2015. It would take very clever terrorists to force a train to speed up to 106 mph before a 50 mph curve. |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by chud1 on Thu May 14 03:20:33 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 14 00:15:27 2015. crucify da house committee for cutting da funding.chud1. :)..... |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Thu May 14 07:18:16 2015, in response to Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 12 21:35:00 2015. Linkedin |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu May 14 07:39:01 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 14 00:15:27 2015. That is why the government should not operate railroads.Poo... That is why the government should not be allowed to run government. ROAR |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu May 14 07:43:27 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed May 13 22:13:47 2015. Brakes worked according to some passengers, but of course when the engineer woke up from his daze no amount of brakes would have saved his beak.Cab signal? If the guy was looking out his window he would have seen where he was. LION said him was 'disoriented' and thunked him was past that curve and then all of a sudden (at that speed) there it was before him. Bend over, Kiss it good bye! ROAR |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu May 14 07:45:06 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed May 13 18:10:44 2015. Micro sleeps happen all of the time, him needs hardware backup. Him had it knot. Now train is in a knot, is it not?ROAR |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu May 14 07:50:45 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Joe V on Wed May 13 18:16:12 2015. A deadmans control, or an alerter is only effective for a DEAD MAN, not for a sleeping man.I can hold on to my teddy bear all night long, and no matter how many times I twist and turn, in the morning the bear is exactly where I put him, in the crook of my arm. If I can hold on to a bear while I sleep how hard is it to reset an alerter with your eyes closed? Alerter needs to require a four digit number to clear, random four digit numbers should be displayed by the alerter, and paroled in kind. (Challenge and Parole, LION was reading a book on WWII and found the word "parole" as the reply to the challenge of another.) ROAR |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu May 14 07:51:57 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 13 23:12:23 2015. Wiggled stuff will show up in the black box, as will the alerter and its reply.ROAR |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by R30A on Thu May 14 07:59:43 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 14 01:39:42 2015. But the train immediately following it also had a similarly shattered engineer's window. And some windows were shattered on the Southbound immediately before it. |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by AlM on Thu May 14 08:06:02 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by R30A on Thu May 14 07:59:43 2015. It's possible that some gang was throwing rocks at trains. But that doesn't cause a train to speed up to 106 instead of slowing down to 50. |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by WillD on Thu May 14 08:21:48 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Jersey Mike on Wed May 13 08:03:46 2015. I wouldn't call the complete crumpling of a carbody "getting off easy" by any stretch of the imagination. |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu May 14 08:52:36 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by ElectricTraction on Thu May 14 00:23:56 2015. it is installed in that area, but not active since FRA only requires ACSES at speeds over 125 mph. |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu May 14 09:11:22 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by chud1 on Thu May 14 03:20:33 2015. 2 corrections seem in order at this point.First: The PTC system was funded for the NEC, was installed in the area southbound but not yet northbound Second: The bill, which also funded housing, was rejected because it violated President Obama's "spending cap" which mandates no new speech without equal cuts elsewhere. |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu May 14 09:12:57 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu May 14 09:11:22 2015. That should have been "spending" and not speech. Sorry for the auto correct |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu May 14 09:55:16 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by R30A on Thu May 14 07:59:43 2015. But the train that got wrecked wrapped around a wire post. It must have pulled on the wires up and down the line throwing stuff at other equipment.ROAR |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu May 14 09:57:17 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu May 14 09:12:57 2015. Looked more correct the way that you wrote it.This prex does not want any more speech from the right. ROAR |
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Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Thu May 14 10:09:39 2015, in response to Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 12 21:35:00 2015. Engineer does not remember |
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