Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story (1341544) | |
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(1341563) | |
Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Feb 26 20:26:22 2015, in response to Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story, posted by Gold_12th on Thu Feb 26 17:39:36 2015. Couldn't some kind of heaters be installed to keep the tunnels warm enough that the ice won't form? Actually, I'm a little surprised that the current running through the catenary wires doesn't itself warm them enough to prevent ice buildup. |
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Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story |
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Posted by Bill West on Fri Feb 27 02:02:23 2015, in response to Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story, posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Feb 26 20:26:22 2015. Fair question but while the warmth in the wires, if enough, would prevent ice from adhering it wouldn't stop icicles from growing downwards from the ceiling to the wire. Add some leached cement chemicals or some brake dust and the icicles will arc over. Space heating while the trains are pushing in cold air would be like trying to warm your house on a windy day with the doors and windows wide open.Bill |
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(1341618) | |
Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Fri Feb 27 13:31:51 2015, in response to Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story, posted by Gold_12th on Thu Feb 26 17:39:36 2015. Is that the PATH tunnel? I noticed what appeared to be third rail. |
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Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story |
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Posted by TERRApin Station on Fri Feb 27 13:57:54 2015, in response to Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Fri Feb 27 13:31:51 2015. Is that the PATH tunnel? I noticed what appeared to be third rail.LOL! Amtrak's North River tubes have third rail. |
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Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story |
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Posted by r30a on Fri Feb 27 13:58:58 2015, in response to Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story, posted by TERRApin Station on Fri Feb 27 13:57:54 2015. If he is looking at the images, I am pretty sure the middle one is the Empire tunnel, not the north river tunnels. (Still, neither is PATH) |
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Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story |
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Posted by TERRApin Station on Fri Feb 27 14:01:43 2015, in response to Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story, posted by r30a on Fri Feb 27 13:58:58 2015. No matter which Amtrak tunnel it is, it IS an Amtrak tunnel and all the Amtrak tunnels have third rail AFAIK. |
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(1341628) | |
Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 27 14:31:15 2015, in response to Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Fri Feb 27 13:31:51 2015. Take another look. The tunnel has both overhead wire and third rail. The first type of electrification by the PRR was third rail; the overhead wires were added two decades later. |
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Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Fri Feb 27 14:57:45 2015, in response to Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story, posted by TERRApin Station on Fri Feb 27 13:57:54 2015. Thank you. I did not know that. |
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Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story |
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Posted by Bill West on Fri Feb 27 15:11:44 2015, in response to Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 27 14:31:15 2015. Boxy roof, no bench walls and relatively new looking concrete all exclude original PRR and PATH tunnels. Add in a substantial curve and you have the Empire line.Bill |
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Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri Feb 27 16:06:27 2015, in response to Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Fri Feb 27 14:57:45 2015. You're welcome. |
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Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Feb 28 01:53:46 2015, in response to Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story, posted by Gold_12th on Thu Feb 26 17:39:36 2015. I gotta wonder how the power is set for that operation. Is it done live? Or do the deenergize? And if the power is off, then is just a LOTO on the breaker, or would there be a ground attached to the line? |
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Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 28 02:09:05 2015, in response to Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story, posted by WillD on Sat Feb 28 01:53:46 2015. Overhead IS de-energized, and lockouts and ground straps on both ends. |
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Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Feb 28 02:27:53 2015, in response to Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 28 02:09:05 2015. I dunno, that seems a bit cumbersome to do during rush hour. I could see deenergizing, but presumably to do lockouts and grounds they'd have to ground both ends of the circuit, so there would have personnel stationed at both ends to pull grounds and tags once the work equipment was clear. |
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Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story |
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Posted by Bill West on Sat Feb 28 02:41:29 2015, in response to Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story, posted by WillD on Sat Feb 28 02:27:53 2015. Because of the close clearance with the ice and the metal tip on the hookstick, deenergization would be a practical necessity. For crew safety a no reclosing tag would do for working with hot sticks but they don't ordinarily require grounding (if they did there would be no point to having them).The question of grounding in general makes me wonder if a minor loss with the new catenary vehicles is the lack of a grounding pan. It does save time over manually placement especially when you are moving along the line. We used to have manually operated grounding switches on incoming line terminals and then dropped them in favour of hotstick applied grounds. One day I watched a fellow try to stick lift and apply a heavy ground cable to a 500kv line about 25' over his head. …I think my department head made an oops on that decision. Bill |
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Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 28 02:45:55 2015, in response to Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story, posted by WillD on Sat Feb 28 02:27:53 2015. They kind of have to though. While they have what is known in the power industry as a "chicken stick" tool, the risk of arc over is pretty extreme. The boom is fiberglass, but the end needs to be something a little more conductive than cardboard to knock ice off the roof. That requires some heft and that's usually metal.While the workers are safe with the chicken sticks should power somehow come on, the metal on the ends of them would in many cases close the gap between the wire and the ceiling sufficiently to draw some arcs. When I saw this article, emailed a buddy who works for AMTK and he said, "oh yeah, they shut down the tunnel for a little over a half hour to do that and then clear up." |
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Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 09:42:37 2015, in response to Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 28 02:45:55 2015. Why does this seem to be more of an issue this year than last ?We had double the snow totals last year. |
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Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sat Feb 28 12:29:29 2015, in response to Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 09:42:37 2015. Its COLDER this season, its the low temps causing these problems. |
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Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 28 17:17:59 2015, in response to Re: Amtrak’s Ice Patrol under the Hudson River - video, pics, story, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 09:42:37 2015. Like R33 said. We haven't been above freezing since mid-January up here and you get our cold down there once we're done with it. :)Freeze/thaw cycles tend to open up holes in things and flow more water when it's above freezing, then it turns to ice when it drops below. |
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