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| Re: Third Avenue right after the el (1316312) | |
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| (1316611) | |
Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by GIS Man on Fri Oct 3 08:44:32 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by italianstallion on Thu Oct 2 18:01:54 2014. For any questions on street lighting, contact Kevin Walsh at forgotten-ny.com. That's his hobby and specialty.Bob |
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Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Oct 3 11:22:19 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Oct 2 12:20:54 2014. "... be joined in The Bronx by a Bronx branch of the SAS"If that ever happened, the rebuilt El would have to be built to B Div. specs |
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Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by Express Rider on Fri Oct 3 16:14:22 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by Jeff Rosen on Thu Oct 2 22:38:33 2014. I've not kept up with Facebook policy. I'm probably generalizing about this, but it seems like articles are published from time to time about Facebook making changes to their privacy policy.Also, I haven't made it a priority to join. Guess I should find out more about it. Thanks. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 3 17:43:40 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by Express Rider on Fri Oct 3 16:14:22 2014. You're not alone. Won't find me there either for those very reasons. |
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Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Oct 4 07:30:08 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Oct 3 11:22:19 2014. Which is what I would be looking at anyway and as I have noted many times. |
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Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by blue8irt on Sat Oct 4 17:51:15 2014, in response to Third Avenue right after the el, posted by Jeff Rosen on Wed Oct 1 17:27:19 2014. All because LaGaurdia caved into the real estate lobby to make this part of town more sellable. And he did so without spending any of the gobs of real estate taxes he made from the deal on a new 3rd Avenue Subway. Nothing like living for the moment. |
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| (1316801) | |
Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Oct 4 19:40:20 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by blue8irt on Sat Oct 4 17:51:15 2014. LaGuardia seemed to have a skewed idea about what a "modern" city should look like. He felt that streetcars were obsolete as compared to buses despite the fact that DC was modernizing its fleet with PCCs and the BMT had just ordered 100 new PCCs for Bkln which were actually more modern looking than some of the buses of the day. |
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Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Oct 4 20:11:59 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by randyo on Sat Oct 4 19:40:20 2014. They also didn't have the foresight to see the needs of the future.What the real estate lobby failed to realize is if the El had remained on 3rd Avenue, the building that did take place would have anyway, albeit most likely slower than it did. Of course, the 3rd Avenue El would have had to undergo a massive rebuild starting around 1960 or so, lasting well into the '70s (including The Bronx portion that did survive until 1973). This as noted before likely would have included at the very least consolidating stations and lengthening platforms to accommodate 10 or 11 car trains (if IRT) or 600' trains (if converted to BMT/IND). |
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Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Oct 5 00:42:55 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Oct 4 20:11:59 2014. How about, instead of demolishing the el, they slimmed it down to one track? A single track wouldn't block the sunlight and the noise of peak-only service wouldn't be too bad for property values but it'd keep the Lexington subway from overflowing at rush hour. |
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Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 5 00:48:23 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by Nilet on Sun Oct 5 00:42:55 2014. Still gotta get the trains back to the other end to send them back. |
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Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Oct 5 00:49:40 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 5 00:48:23 2014. South in the morning, north in the evening. They just need a stub track to lay them up midday. |
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Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 5 00:53:30 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by Nilet on Sun Oct 5 00:49:40 2014. If you've ever done layups and put-ins, you'd be amazed at how many tracks it would take to do that. I've got a better idea that would probably pass muster here. Send the full trains with pax on the top of the el, have the empty ones come back upside down underneath. Add some helium, and it might work. :) |
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Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 5 00:57:07 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 5 00:53:30 2014. Here's an idea of the stub track needed just for the 6th and 9th Avenue lines.
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| (1316842) | |
Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Oct 5 01:05:42 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 5 00:57:07 2014. Presumably just the three left-most? There's no way a full-size yard would be needed for, what, ten trains? Just keep three tracks on the last ten blocks of el.In 1955, they managed to stash the difference between peak and off-peak service on the leads to the abandoned City Hall branch. |
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Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 5 01:38:18 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by Nilet on Sun Oct 5 01:05:42 2014. Yeah, but that was the difference. They had trains going back and forth, so they just needed to add a few more since trains were coming back. Still need to get them back to the starting point even if they're empty going the other way. But yeah, even when that yard was full, there were still plenty of trains going both ways then too. |
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Third Avenue/Culver El Re-builds |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Oct 5 02:57:02 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by Nilet on Sun Oct 5 00:42:55 2014. One version of a rebuilt 3rd Avenue El that had been suggested before that could work would be for most of the route, single tracks on two levels (directions of trains on each level depending on which side most of the platforms would be placed on). There can be places where both tracks in that scenario are on the same level to allow for switches between tracks where needed.The plan I have would have two levels and four tracks total with platforms set up like the CPW line for local stations and island platforms for express stations, with 60th-63rd designed to be the busiest station on the line. Single tracks on two levels is also how I would be looking to do a re-build of the Culver El, with southbound trains going to a rebuild of what had been the stub track at Ditmas Avenue (before joining the Culver Line after that and that becoming an island platform again) as the lower level otherwise and northbound trains going to a new track that would lead to EITHER a new upper level of Ditmas Avenue northbound OR the far side of an island platform of the northbound side and going across from there as the upper level, with it only two tracks together in the immediate area leading to the 9th Avenue lower level station. |
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| (1316853) | |
Re: Third Avenue/Culver El Re-builds |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Oct 5 03:05:19 2014, in response to Third Avenue/Culver El Re-builds, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Oct 5 02:57:02 2014. The plan I have would have two levels and four tracks total with platforms set up like the CPW line for local stations and island platforms for express stations, with 60th-63rd designed to be the busiest station on the line.Express tracks on the upper level makes more sense. Single tracks on two levels is also how I would be looking to do a re-build of the Culver El... Most of the Culver El is already standing. The stub between 9th Avenue and Ditmas is not coming back— the ROW is already built up. |
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Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Oct 5 08:32:37 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 5 01:38:18 2014. Nice photo!! |
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Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by blue8irt on Sun Oct 5 09:51:01 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by randyo on Sat Oct 4 19:40:20 2014. I agree %100. Street cars are so much more efficient that stupid buses any day of the week. But the el lines torn down without any replacement was just his way of getting his way. He did not like the look and sound of the els. His real estate buddies wanted to increase the value of the land on 2nd and 3rd Avenues. But he just decided to do nothing about new subways. That makes him one of the most short-sighted Mayros of NYC to have held the post. His legacy has a huge deficit. He could have really done something good and long-lasting and he decided to screw working families and commuters in general by allowing transit to go 'his' way and not theirs. |
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Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 5 13:39:28 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by blue8irt on Sun Oct 5 09:51:01 2014. Street cars are so much more efficient that stupid buses any day of the weekEven when you factor in infrastructure maintenance (tracks and overhead wires/conduits)? Some bus lines in Manhattan have always been buses, you know. |
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Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Oct 5 19:35:52 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 5 00:53:30 2014. Actually, this doesn't have to be a facetious idea. A two- track el could be built on two levels to achieve a similar result. I still don't think it would fly these days, but it isn't an outrageous idea. |
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| (1316966) | |
Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Oct 5 19:56:14 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Oct 5 08:32:37 2014. Right next to the Polo Grounds, as a matter of fact. |
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Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Oct 5 19:59:54 2014, in response to Third Avenue right after the el, posted by Jeff Rosen on Wed Oct 1 17:27:19 2014. Check out that green Pontiac with the cockeyed piece of chrome. |
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Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Oct 5 20:39:24 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Oct 5 19:59:54 2014. Looks like a '52 or '53. |
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Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by jan k. lorenzen on Sun Oct 5 21:05:30 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 5 00:53:30 2014. Don't you mean Lithium? |
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| (1316997) | |
Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 5 21:13:48 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Oct 5 19:35:52 2014. Like the "monorail" in Batman Begins. |
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Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Oct 5 21:26:20 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by randyo on Sun Oct 5 20:39:24 2014. My father had a two-tone green '53 Chieftain. That car in the photo is a year or two older. I remember that '53 very well. It always started no matter how cold it got, and it had a six-volt battery. Plus it was built like a BMT standard. |
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Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 5 23:49:16 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Oct 5 19:35:52 2014. Absolutely. My point though is that you would NEED two tracks, you can't bunch up all the trains at one end and be able to carry the loads. You'd need a helluva big yard as the early 9th avenue el entrepreneurs figured out in short order. |
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| (1317032) | |
Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 5 23:59:02 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by jan k. lorenzen on Sun Oct 5 21:05:30 2014. Heh. Nah ... I was thinking of something to suspend them on the tracks on the underside of the el. NYC would never grant permits for hydrogen. :) |
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Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by blue8irt on Mon Oct 6 08:59:40 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 5 13:39:28 2014. Exactly. Once, someone said that an extension of the 7 under Northern Blvd. would be nice. It is sevred by several bus lines but the car traffic is sometimes prohibitive where buses have to creep along inch by inch. Buses are ok in smaller population areas, I guess. But in larger numbers, any rail types move more and do it more efficiently. |
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Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by jan k. lorenzen on Mon Oct 6 15:36:29 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 5 23:59:02 2014. I was thinking that maybe Lithium would be prescribed in the planning stages to "level things out" a bit.Possible side effects might keep everybody busy tho. |
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Re: Third Avenue right after the el |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Oct 6 17:50:49 2014, in response to Re: Third Avenue right after the el, posted by jan k. lorenzen on Mon Oct 6 15:36:29 2014. Ah ... THAT lithium. :)I don't think of meds right off the bat. Whoops. Heh. |
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