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| Re: A VERY Lost A Train! (1285214) | |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Apr 13 22:46:00 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Train Dude on Sun Apr 13 21:54:44 2014. This is why t/o's & c/r's have left this chat in droves.Because those of us in the trenches, who deal with this stuff at least 40 hours a week deal with posters who know more about the goings on than us. |
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| (1285646) | |
Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Apr 13 22:47:02 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Apr 13 22:46:00 2014. Or so they think! |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 13 23:09:45 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Apr 13 22:46:00 2014. "This is why t/o's & c/r's have left this chat in droves."You mean Railman. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 13 23:10:12 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Train Dude on Sun Apr 13 22:35:19 2014. I didn't say it was commonplace, I just said that it happened. |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Apr 13 23:18:15 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Train Dude on Sun Apr 13 22:16:20 2014. That was the SECOND go-round in the 80's when that scheme came back with DIRECT purchase by the banks. The PREVIOUS one was tied to the MTA's founding because of the absorption of TBTA tolls as the funding mechanism to back up the original bonds. They came up short and so the bonding for the purchases were acquired by Chase and several other banks who required payments from TBTA directly.Went looking for any details on it and of course since no internet then, any print copies of the reports aren't coming up. There were all SORTS of fiscal shens played out by Rockefeller until he left office, and when he left, suddenly everybody wanted their money and the city ended up going broke as a result. I'll see if I can find some of those old reports, wouldn't know how the game was played in the 80's, I was long gone by then. In the 60's, three card monty was the way of political financing as long as Rockefeller was there. SO here ... because I can't find it right now, you win this one. |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Apr 13 23:19:35 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 13 23:09:45 2014. MANY ... |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 13 23:21:07 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Apr 13 23:19:35 2014. Railman, and ................... ? NETO maybe? And .......... ? |
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| (1285653) | |
Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 13 23:22:50 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 13 23:10:12 2014. You said: "When E trains were sent to 168th a few years back, they remained in service for the southbound trip."That is written the way one would write something to mean that it was normal procedure, not that you happened to witness it one time. |
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| (1285654) | |
Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Apr 13 23:30:31 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Apr 13 23:18:15 2014. WRONG! Every NYCT subway car has a metal tag on the side that says "Property of _________" The R Series cars up through R-46 satid the City of NY. The R-62s and the R-68s had the same EXCEPT for the cars that were owned by the PANYNJ which so stated. When I was responsible for the R-68s a certain number had to be called in each year so that the owners could have them inspected and insure that they were being properly maintained. I had the list of R-68s with some of my other documentation but cannot locate it. The R-62 that was damaged beyond repair on the #4 line during the 2000 World Series was one of those cars. It sat for a long time in Concourse Yard until the owners & their insurers gave the okay to scrap it.Now I've been responsible for R-46s and R-44s, R42s, R-40s. R-32s and even R-38s. I'm telling you that NONE of them were leased. None of them were ever required to be called out of service for inspection by bank owners. You can either take my word for it or not. |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Apr 13 23:31:21 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 13 23:21:07 2014. Many more who prefer to remain nameless. Go look back and you might figure some of them out. Including SEVERAL subtalkers who are now on the payroll and vanished shortly after going to work there. |
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| (1285656) | |
Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Apr 13 23:34:12 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Train Dude on Sun Apr 13 23:30:31 2014. Whoop! Nevermind ... FOUND it buried in of all things, a TA report from 1968 under "Deferred charges, Assets derived from long term debt, Rapid transit passenger cars" on Page 10 ... here. The $70 mil matches the number I remember from the 1968 purcahse by Chase Manhattan. There were others, but at least I found ONE of them. :)http://nycsubway.org.s3.amazonaws.com/images/pdf/nyct_annual_report_1968.pdf |
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| (1285657) | |
Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 13 23:34:43 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 13 23:22:50 2014. Once again, you failed to spot nuance and context. Mostly context.Train Dude initially implied that a train diverted up the wrong line would always run light until it returned to its home line, so I offered up a counterexample to show that this wasn't always the case. |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Apr 13 23:38:27 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Train Dude on Sun Apr 13 23:30:31 2014. I don't remember ANY owned by PANYNJ ... I remember seeing CHASE MANHATTAN BANK and several OTHER tags. Do you know how long the term of those leasebacks were from back in the 1960's? Ten Years. The original federal scam expired in the mid 1970's and the taxpayers of New York (mostly automobile drivers) paid them back by 1973. Banks got to keep the depreciation values until 1983 off their taxes.What YOU'RE talking about is when that silliness came back for a second go-round under Reagan. It was repealed in 2004. |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Apr 13 23:44:08 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Apr 13 23:34:12 2014. The cars referred to were not leased to the NYCT. They were purchased by the city of NY with funds financed by bonds which is a whole different thing from what you originally claimed. The first cars leased to NYCT were R-62s and R-68s. |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Apr 13 23:45:08 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Apr 13 23:38:27 2014. Suit yourself. It's not true but not worth arguing over. |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Apr 13 23:48:39 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 13 23:34:43 2014. No! I initially did not say that or imply that. I said that it was most likely a side sign communication failure, which was later confirmed. I also said that there was no way that a Southbound A train heading for Far Rockaway could be diverted to Queens without a reverse move which was highly unlikely to happen. Those were my two statements in my first posting on the subject and so far - except for some railfan speculation, neither statement has been shown to be inaccurate. |
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| (1285662) | |
Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Apr 13 23:50:55 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Train Dude on Sun Apr 13 23:44:08 2014. Let me kn ow when you understand government financing. Rockefeller SOLD the bonds to his brother and changed the terms and conditions of them. Instead of the TBTA money going DIRECTLY to the MTA, it went to the bank instead. That was a DEFICIT on MTA's books. Sheesh. No WONDER you believe what you do politically and accept voodoo economics without question. :( |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Apr 13 23:55:14 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Apr 13 23:50:55 2014. Give it up already. You were wrong the first time. You were wrong the 2nd time and you are wrong now. Stop trying to spin things and changing the subject. You are only making yourself dizzy. |
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| (1285664) | |
Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Apr 13 23:56:19 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Train Dude on Sun Apr 13 23:55:14 2014. Just as I suspected. Same game they did with Social Security and you missed it. Ah well ... that's what I get for trying to provide proff ... I've learned my lesson. :) |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Apr 13 23:57:50 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Apr 13 23:56:19 2014. Okay you win! You are correct. Now go sew your voodoo finance merit badge onto your panties. |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 00:00:08 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Train Dude on Sun Apr 13 23:48:39 2014. The train in the picture was Manhattan-bound; Henry suggested it could be a rerouted A returning southbound after it had been rerouted on its northbound trip. You ruled out the possibility on the grounds that such a train would have necessarily been sent back light. I just pointed out that this is not the case. |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Apr 14 00:18:28 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Train Dude on Sun Apr 13 23:44:08 2014. On this, I think you're correct. The Transit Museum used to have all kinds of old annual reports from the NYCTA and MTA, which they sold out of the Gift Shop next to the (then) RR Theater. I used to pick them up as interesting historical reading. Basically in them, there were tables and charts telling which monies were used to buy what things, and where these funds came from. I do clearly recall a 1961 NYCTA AR that spelled out the terms of a huge bond issue that was made to cover the purchase of "600 stainless-steel passenger cars", which, of course, became contract R-32.However, I am uncertain as to what was done with the funding of the other cars in the 1960s purchases, because Chase most certainly did get involved with the bond programs of that era, as did several other big banks. I'm not sure if they invested, sold, or merely backed their issue, but it is clear they were involved in the city and MTA transactions involving these cars, which, as you correctly noted, extend all the way to contract R-46. The city, or later the MTA may have owed these subway cars outright, but I trust my memory, when it tells me I actually did see Metropolitan and Cosmopolitan cars with plaques on them identifying the PANYNJ as their owner. |
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| (1285675) | |
Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by displaced angeleno on Mon Apr 14 02:02:56 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Apr 13 18:36:54 2014. Except that Peter Obletz has been dead almost 18 years. |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Apr 14 06:56:42 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by displaced angeleno on Mon Apr 14 02:02:56 2014. I didn't know that. I was speaking figuratively. |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 14 06:59:28 2014, in response to A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by R36 #9346 on Fri Apr 11 16:59:04 2014. Oh wow...!!! That train is far from home, subway-wise, for sure- though as the proverbial crow flies, not so much. And if the second system had been built, it could get home easily...That makes the R68 D train I saw at 34th/8th Avenue (around 17:50 on a Wednesday) 10 days ago seem like nothing .I was impressed, never having seen a 68 on the 8th Ave line before, but we all know that's an easy re-route. |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 14 07:00:32 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by mtk52983 on Fri Apr 11 17:10:05 2014. And very STUCK!! |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 14 07:11:18 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Apr 13 16:41:33 2014. Interesting that they took on so much debt to buy new cars (I guess everything from R17 to R36WF), but didn't find enough money to maintain them... |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 14 07:40:33 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Apr 13 23:31:21 2014. People who have left after hiring on is not what you are talking about. Try again.If we can't remember who these t/os and c/rs are who have left then who cares about them? If they want to remain nameless then why bring them up at all? |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 14 07:42:23 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 13 23:34:43 2014. No, that is not what you wrote. You seem to fail at being able to convey your thoughts adequately. Those that replied to you interpreted your post differently. This seems to be a pattern with you. |
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Re: The Story (Re: A VERY Lost A Train!) |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Mon Apr 14 09:59:39 2014, in response to Re: The Story (Re: A VERY Lost A Train!), posted by Train Dude on Sun Apr 13 22:37:27 2014. The thing is that this one sign pair (interior and exterior) was the only one doing this. All the others, including the one at the other end of the car showed R to Whitehall. |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Michael549 on Mon Apr 14 13:02:01 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 00:00:08 2014. To All Of The Guys:Do we really NEED all of the verbal fighting and name-calling? It was a simple picture! Nothing but a simple picture! Reasonable explanations were given, reasonable explanations were debated. Nothing earth-shattering about any of it! Can we just go back to our usual hatred of Robert Moses, and those bums the Dodgers for moving out of NYC?? LOL? Or argue about the Knicks? Or the Nets? or the Mets? LOL! Mike |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 13:41:13 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 14 07:42:23 2014. No, what seems to be a pattern is that you take everything completely literally with no regard for the context in which it was posted.I can't dumb down everything I say just so you can understand it. |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 14 13:54:15 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 13:41:13 2014. Wow, I see you post like a know it all on this side too. |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Mon Apr 14 13:55:30 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Michael549 on Mon Apr 14 13:02:01 2014. ain`t gonna happen,this is subcrap. |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 14 13:55:43 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Apr 13 22:40:37 2014. You should see him post on OTChat. He's a know it all, and doesn't listen to reason. I see here on this side, it's the same thing, even discounting what employees with decades of service know. |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 14:04:06 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 14 13:54:15 2014. If you read some of our previous exchanges, you would understand why I said that. |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 14:05:33 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 14 13:55:43 2014. That's hilarious.You threw a screaming tantrum and declared you "didn't have time" to read a 36-word post simply because you couldn't think of a reasonable response to it. |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 14 14:11:13 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 14:05:33 2014. Not at all. I don't read propaganda. I told you that. And after you posted more than one of those stupid propaganda cartoons... Do you really think that everyone wants to read propaganda, written by people that are leaning in their thinking to begin with. I know it's hard for you, as you are a sponge for other people's thinking. I don't need to read propaganda comics to know how to think. |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 14 14:13:37 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Apr 13 23:31:21 2014. That's a different set though. People that left after being hired by the MTA are a different story. |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 14 14:32:01 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 14 14:13:37 2014. I consider them to be in the same group that were with the MTA for a while, saw the silliness here and bailed as well. The world down in the hold varies extremely from what the buffs think it's all about. |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Apr 14 14:32:32 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Apr 14 00:18:28 2014. "...cars with plaques on them identifying the PANYNJ as their owner"Yep. I remember seeing the same plaques on M-3s...also saying "Leased to the MTA" |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 14 14:59:03 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 13:41:13 2014. Nope. You were talking about a specific subject and making a specific claim. You should thus speak (write) in specific language that makes it abundantly clear what you are trying to convey. What you wrote, assuming you were writing to be abundantly clear, meant that it was normal or usual to have the trains run in service. If instead you meant that you one time saw one train run in service, in the interest of honest discussion and debate, you should have simply said so! Why go out of your way to write in a manner that specifically conveys not what you intended to say? |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 14 15:00:10 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Michael549 on Mon Apr 14 13:02:01 2014. Why didn't you post your message in reply to a post that contained actual examples of said name calling? |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 14 15:07:55 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 14 14:32:01 2014. No, different set of people. Different reasons for leaving. |
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Re: 1966 Transit Strike |
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Posted by Randyo on Mon Apr 14 16:10:19 2014, in response to Re: 1966 Transit Strike, posted by bklynsubwaybob on Sun Apr 13 20:39:40 2014. It was a lot older, but the first time it needed to be invoked was the 1980 strike. |
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Re: 1966 Transit Strike |
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Posted by Hart Bus on Mon Apr 14 16:35:37 2014, in response to Re: 1966 Transit Strike, posted by Randyo on Mon Apr 14 16:10:19 2014. According to Wikipedia the law went into effect in 1967 in reaction to the transit strike in 1966. It was challenged by the United Federation of Teachers in court, but the court upheld the law. |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 17:19:53 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 14 14:11:13 2014. So you believe that racial equality is "propaganda?" |
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Re: A VERY Lost A Train! |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 17:19:57 2014, in response to Re: A VERY Lost A Train!, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 14 14:59:03 2014. My writing was perfectly clear to anyone familiar with the context. This category does not include you, since you repeatedly fail to understand context. |
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Re: 1966 Transit Strike |
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Posted by bklynsubwaybob on Mon Apr 14 19:22:02 2014, in response to Re: 1966 Transit Strike, posted by Randyo on Mon Apr 14 16:10:19 2014. Thanks for the info. |
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Re: 1966 Transit Strike |
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Posted by Randyo on Mon Apr 14 19:24:52 2014, in response to Re: 1966 Transit Strike, posted by Hart Bus on Mon Apr 14 16:35:37 2014. That would be about right. |
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