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| (1110119) | |
Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Joe on Sun Oct 16 22:02:05 2011 Does anyone have memories or photo-links of the Lexington Avenue el proceeding south on Grand Avenue through the Pratt Institute campus? From old aerial photos, it would appear that Pratt had buildings on the street grid, that is, it did not have a superblock as it now has. A few years ago, I noted that some Pratt buildings once facing outwards to the street now face inwards towards a grassy campus. This was accomplished just by blocking a door and opening another entrance. My curiosity is what an el passenger saw. Did Pratt appear just as another series of buildings lining Grand Avenue? Or was it obvious that the el bisected an institution of renown?--- I have searched through the Lex photos on nycsubway.org. Great photos, but not of this stretch. Not even a photo of DeKalb & Grand station. I rode the Lex at age eleven or twelve, but at that time I had no idea that relatives or later friends had gone to school there. Thanks. Joe |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by MELLOW ONE on Sun Oct 16 22:40:47 2011, in response to Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Joe on Sun Oct 16 22:02:05 2011. Try my Sky Drive album. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by monorail on Sun Oct 16 22:55:29 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by MELLOW ONE on Sun Oct 16 22:40:47 2011. nice, thanks for sharing!!!! |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1110171) | |
Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by jan k. lorenzen on Sun Oct 16 23:39:06 2011, in response to Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Joe on Sun Oct 16 22:02:05 2011. The campus was created in the mid 50's by knocking down the buildings that were between the East Building (power plant) and Dekalb, and the Engineering Bldg and what is now Pratt Studios (a former factory bldg) on Grand/Dekalb and the brownstones that faced the library between Higgins Hall and South Hall. The Lex ran right though it all on Grand.My History of Design professor John Pyle had started teaching at Pratt in the late 40's and showed us pictures of the Lex as it ran between East and Engineering Bldgs from his classroom in East Bldg. and then time interval pics of the el being dismantled. He described being regularly interrupted by the passing el trains with some amused resignation, and joked that he would set up his lectures to work around the noise and vibration. I beleive the Pratt Library has these photos in the collection, along with slides taken during the mid-50's demolition to make the campus. Up until recently, the foundations of the el pillars left their marks on Grand Walk. There are manholes in a concrete patch where the sidewalk once was in front of the Engineering Bldg with "NYCTS" cast on the covers where the feeds once were. I understand they were live for quite some time, maybe even now. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Dave on Mon Oct 17 06:14:44 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by MELLOW ONE on Sun Oct 16 22:40:47 2011. Those pics are WONDERFUL! |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Oct 17 12:53:41 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by MELLOW ONE on Sun Oct 16 22:40:47 2011. Awesome stuff that I have bookmarked, but alas no picture of the el crossing between the Dekalb Ave and the Grand/Myrtle stations, where it crossed through Pratt. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by jan k. lorenzen on Mon Oct 17 13:46:05 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Oct 17 12:53:41 2011. There's actually a few shots in that online set, one taken about 15 years earlier than the other. Either are pretty good and almost taken from the same spot. One of them shows what was Grossman Shoe factory on DeKalb (now a condo) and the factory that became Pratt Studios. The photo was taken on the corner of where I used to live on St. James, looking east, with the luncheonette on the corner. The entire superblock on that south side of DeKalb was torn down between DeKalb and Lafayette between Classon and St. James, save for the 88th Pct house and Grossman Shoes during the area's "de-slumming" in the late 50's.I recall the Pratt Library collection has a few photos taken from the street looking south from Willoughby towards DeKalb. There's also one or two of the intersection of Grand and Myrtle from the ground, pretty intense structure. |
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| (1110317) | |
Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by MELLOW ONE on Mon Oct 17 15:25:25 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Oct 17 12:53:41 2011. So, we need to find pictures of the Lexington Ave El looking North from the Dekalb Ave station and South from the Myrtle Ave station on Grand Ave. I have one more picture to upload to my Lex Album. It is the intersection of Ryerson Street and Willoughby Avenue looking North to the Lexington Ave El Structure. I could not find anything useful from Steuben Ave. There is the 1951 Aerial of the area showing the Lexington Ave El being demolished. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Oct 17 19:04:47 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by MELLOW ONE on Mon Oct 17 15:25:25 2011. You have 2 pictures of the Grand Ave "jog" in that collection, which would be the point where the el enters Pratt, but both are facing in the opposite direction (east along Grand). |
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| (1110393) | |
Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by MELLOW ONE on Mon Oct 17 19:14:47 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Oct 17 19:04:47 2011. I am not too familiar with the area. The Pratt Campus is North of Lafayette, where the El and Grand Ave jogged over. The area is completly changed now. Grand Ave does not go through, South to Lafayette. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Oct 17 19:37:07 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by MELLOW ONE on Mon Oct 17 19:14:47 2011. Yeah, both Pratt and a housing project built after the el was removed sever Grand Ave into segments. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by jan k. lorenzen on Tue Oct 18 17:37:54 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by MELLOW ONE on Sun Oct 16 22:40:47 2011. Oh yeah, one other leftover from the Lex el on Pratt campus was the torched off studs where the DeKalb Station stairs bolted to the sidewalk on Grand. They were there until Pratt rebuilt Grand Walk a decade or so ago. The concrete was spalling pretty bad when I was there in the early 80's, but nobody needed to walk through to DeKalb then, the gate was locked up for security reasons. I never got to see if there was the same on the other side next to the Grossman Bldg, as they had a locked gate too and it wasn't too safe back then to try - you might have gotten clocked on the head by clay thrown by an auto design classmate.... |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by blue8irt on Tue Oct 18 20:42:20 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by MELLOW ONE on Mon Oct 17 15:25:25 2011. I lived at 181 Steuben, right inside Pratt's campus. From August 1967 to January of 1968. My father worked for Pratt. The neighborhood was so unsafe that we high tailed to Pennsylvania and never lived in NYC again. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Oct 18 21:17:05 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by MELLOW ONE on Sun Oct 16 22:40:47 2011. Super cool!!! The Lex El appears to have been fully signalled..unlike the old IRT (Manhttan) Els.... |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by MELLOW ONE on Tue Oct 18 22:05:36 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Oct 18 21:17:05 2011. The Lexington Ave El was the Eastern section on the first Brooklyn Elevated Railway otherwise known as the Park Ave El, The Old Main Line. See my Early Brooklyn El Routes web page. |
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| (1110764) | |
Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by jan k. lorenzen on Wed Oct 19 13:12:33 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by blue8irt on Tue Oct 18 20:42:20 2011. I was at 215 Willoughby across the street from you, '79 to '83, then at 12 St. James from '83 to '92. I met my future wife at Dottie's Romanian Gardens on Myrtle between Hall and Ryerson, next to Steve's Fish. Both buildings fell down two summers ago due to some not so smart attempts at renovation. There's a pic of Dotties under the Myrtle el and a set of Q's in Under The Sidewalks of New York. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Oct 19 14:27:55 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by blue8irt on Tue Oct 18 20:42:20 2011. Sadly, a lot of people who rode the Myrtle Ave el, south of Broadway, felt the same way. Ridership declined, so down it came! |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 19 15:11:24 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Oct 19 14:27:55 2011. And now with Metrotech and the rest of the downtown Bkln revival ridership would probably be up by a large percentage. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Oct 19 16:03:15 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by randyo on Wed Oct 19 15:11:24 2011. I'm not too sure about that. After all, who would want to gentrify a block on Myrtle Ave with the old el structure still there? 2nd and 3rd Ave's in Manhattan weren't built up until the els were demolished. As an old el fan I hate to say this, but the developers/real estate interests were correct with these locations. Yet others, like Brooklyn's Fulton Street and Lexington Ave, got worse after the els were removed. |
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| (1110838) | |
Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by jan k. lorenzen on Wed Oct 19 17:34:37 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Oct 19 14:27:55 2011. Alot of the decline in ridership was when the Brooklyn Navy Yard closed as a government installation in 1966 and deterioration of downtown Brooklyn. But in general, the thing was falling apart, the non-standard cars were ancient, it was an oddity that required constant special attention and the TA money was not going to be invested into it when things were in a downward spiral. Gentrification in Clinton Hill / Ft. Greene didn't really start until the 80's when new people started reinvesting in the neighborhood. The gentrification still hasn't happened between Classon and Broadway, except for the Satmars moving south from W'burg along Bedford Ave. |
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| (1110847) | |
Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Oct 19 18:46:14 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Oct 19 14:27:55 2011. Actually..it was a victim of "urban planning" gone wrong.The entire Myrtle Avenue ROW was tapped for "Model Cities" apartment housing that was only partially built... The El was to be "rebuilt" with newer cars..but the bottom dropped out of city funds..the state pulled out..the "developer" pulled out..but the EL was removed anyway,replaced by the B54 bus. I still say its a shame that our el lines were removed without replacement..to this very day,there is a gap in service in the middle of BEDFORD..Navy Yard..and so on with the MTA making NO PLANS[if you believe SBS is an replacement shame on you]to build in Brooklyn..or any other boro except Manhattan. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by trains61 on Thu Oct 20 01:59:47 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by blue8irt on Tue Oct 18 20:42:20 2011. Unsafe? Meh. Maybe for you not me!!!In my opinion the neighborhood didn`t start to go downhill until the mid to late 70`s. Classon and DeKalb 1961 to 1987. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Oct 20 07:40:27 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by jan k. lorenzen on Wed Oct 19 17:34:37 2011. Well, it was short-sighted thinking on the TA's part that the neighborhood would never come back. I'm quite sure that had the Myrtle El survived, it would be a vital part of the transporation network. Outside of Manhattan, I don't think any neighborhoods were "improved" by removal of elevated trains/subways- and, as we've discussed, many or most declined even further.It's difficult to say how much of this is cause and effect, or just coincidence. Perhaps 2nd and 3rd Aves in Manhattan could have come up, eventually, even with the Els in place, and maybe Third Ave (Bronx), Central Brooklyn, and Jamaica would have still gone donw with the Els in place. But I've never understood how making an area LESS accesible makes it better. Back in September, we talked a lot about the loss of the East end of the Jamaica El. While I'm generally not one to cite racism, I can't help but thinking that Macy's, Mays, etc in the 1970s were really trying to cut the "wrong" people out of the neighborhood and bring in the "right" people. I myself would probably qualify as the "right" kind of shopper in their minds, but that doesn't mean I can't recognize a wrong (no quotes) when I see it. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 20 07:41:54 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Oct 19 16:03:15 2011. I disagree. Gentrification is happening all along the Broadway El and the northern part of the Myrtle El at Central and Knickerbocker with no problems. In fact, the fact that transportation is there helps a lot. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Oct 20 07:42:21 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Edwards! on Wed Oct 19 18:46:14 2011. IAWTP.There are times in my work travels where the MJ train could have helped me a lot. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 20 07:44:11 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Oct 20 07:40:27 2011. Back in September, we talked a lot about the loss of the East end of the Jamaica El. While I'm generally not one to cite racism, I can't help but thinking that Macy's, Mays, etc in the 1970s were really trying to cut the "wrong" people out of the neighborhood and bring in the "right" people. I myself would probably qualify as the "right" kind of shopper in their minds, but that doesn't mean I can't recognize a wrong (no quotes) when I see it.I doubt it, as in the case of Jamaica, the neighborhood ITSELF was turning non-white. The transportation of the el brought the "white" people IN to shop, so it's kind of the opposite of the scenario you propose. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Oct 20 07:46:32 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 20 07:41:54 2011. It sure does. I have seen the huge crowds of people wating for the M train (some may transfer to the J/Z @ Essex) at Flushing, Lorimer, hews, and Marcy in the AM rush.I don't think many of these folks would have moved out there if, say, the entire Eastern Division had been demolished in the name of "improvement" or whatever reason. |
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| (1110903) | |
Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 20 07:48:35 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Oct 20 07:42:21 2011. It would have helped me cut my commute in half for a few years. Instead, I had to take the M train all the way to Essex and get the F just to go back to Jay St. It was absurd to have to travel all the way to Manhattan just to go back to Brooklyn again, when a '10 or 15" minute ride on the el would have went direct.I tried many different ways, but I always end up back with the M to the F version, which turned out to be the fastest. I tried the B54 bus, but that was the bus from hell (just like most buses in my opinion), so that lasted two days. I tried the M to the J to Bway Junction for the A to Jay Street, but I got tired of the transfer at Bway Junction, and it was longer than taking the M to the F at Essex. I also tried the M through lower manhattan straight to Court St or Lawrence St, but that was also the trip from hell. The trek all the way down the Nassau line and then through the Montague took forever. It was easier just to get off the M for the F at Essex, and that's what I did for the remainder. |
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| (1110904) | |
Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Oct 20 07:48:37 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 20 07:44:11 2011. In substance, I'm sure you're right. But the owners of Macy & Mays, in ther twisted thinking, may not have noticed that. But in any event, I think they wanted to keep non-whites out, by whatever coded or covert method they could- without actually saying it.All they did, as most of us agree, is f*** up everything. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 20 08:44:04 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Oct 20 07:48:37 2011. I don't agree. It was quite obvious that Jamaica was "turning Black" in the 70's. The neighborhood itself.They thought that removal of the el would make the neighborhood "look better" so that "whites" from outside Jamaica would still come to Jamaica to shop. What they didn't realize is that not only would that not happen, the el took away the shopping district's lifeline of people coming from other neighborhoods to shop there. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 20 08:47:16 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Oct 20 07:46:32 2011. Yes. I believe Bed-Stuy's gentrifucation would be going on even faster than it is too if the Lexington EL was still there. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Oct 20 10:30:13 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Oct 20 07:48:37 2011. But the owners of Macy & Mays,...The fight was led by Macy's. Macy's closed their Jamaica store a couple of weeks after El service was discontinued. Their motive in spearheading the "tear down the El" campaign isn't difficult to discern. Macy's had opened a store on Queens Blvd in Elmhurst. They had decided the new store would be their Queens presence. Jamaica was still a thriving shopping area at that time, with Gertz being the prime destination. They knew they would kill Jamaica as a shopping destination by severing its transportation link with its customer base. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by blue8irt on Thu Oct 20 12:50:57 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by MELLOW ONE on Sun Oct 16 22:40:47 2011. Ah that old destruction of transit without planning for it's replacement routine. It's never ceases to amaze that the City of New York has had such a bad "track" record with this. It always reinforced their ineptness of handling it. Listening to store owners to manipulate which races can shop at their store, well, that's not surprising either. I visited Pratt 4 years ago while recovering from cancer surgery. The campus is a beauty. Walking out to Myrtle Avenue was a shock. The roadway looked so narrow I wondered how a 2-way elevated train fit on it. And if it and the Lexington El were in bad shape, it just reminds me of many corporations took the profit and did not put any of it back into it's mechanisms. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by 5119 on Thu Oct 20 13:00:13 2011, in response to Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Joe on Sun Oct 16 22:02:05 2011. Jamaica has been non-white way before the 1970's IIRC |
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Re: Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by timz2 on Thu Oct 20 13:17:08 2011, in response to Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Joe on Sun Oct 16 22:02:05 2011. Probably no help, but did you check the 1957 aerials here? |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Oct 20 13:26:18 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Oct 19 16:03:15 2011. And Jamaica. Jamaica went to hell when the el was removed. |
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Re: Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by timz2 on Thu Oct 20 13:55:37 2011, in response to Re: Pratt Institute campus, posted by timz2 on Thu Oct 20 13:17:08 2011. Link didn't work-- the pics should be athttp://iarchives.nysed.gov/dmsBlue/listImages.jsp?counter=144 |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Oct 20 13:58:21 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Oct 19 16:03:15 2011. If that were the case, how do you explain Chicago? |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Oct 20 17:07:33 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 20 08:47:16 2011. Really? With the Lex's clumsy pillar arrangement in the street? That might have been okay in the horse and buggy era, but it would be a vehicular nightmare today. And, bear in mind, the Lex was closed for lack of ridership on 10/13/50. From what I have read, lexington Ave never had trolley or bus service, either. The Myrtle might have been saved except for the bad neighborhoods in the 1960's and 70's. But, it needed new cars, structural work, escalators at Bridge/Jay directly to the subway, and the elimination of that idiotic transfer that allowed only riders at B'way/Nassau to get free transfers to the Myrtle at Bridge/Jay. I never understood that one! |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Oct 20 17:18:32 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Oct 20 13:26:18 2011. Jamaica went to hell long before the el was removed. In 1967, I was almost knocked over by a shoplifter fleeing May's security. Face it, guys, a subway alone will not save a neighborhood, even if it replaces an el. Glad you mentioned Jamaica, though. i used to take the jamaica el or the B-56 bus from New JerseyJamaica Ave's to 170th St and take the Q-17A bus to St John's Univ. |
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| (1110961) | |
Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by jan k. lorenzen on Thu Oct 20 17:19:49 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Oct 20 17:07:33 2011. The transfer at Jay and Bway Nassau was to make up for tearing down the Park Row terminal. You could only get the transfer back to Brooklyn from a single booth. The transfer from the B54 actually said it was good only for riding between Jay St. and Bway-Nassau!We used to use the transfer at Bridge Jay to save a fare while hitting Sid's Hardware or any of the other stores in the area. Ride the B54 down to Jay, ride the G back home after a transfer at Hoyt. 50 cents was 50 cents! The Lex lost alot of ridership to the GG. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by jan k. lorenzen on Thu Oct 20 17:21:38 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Oct 17 19:04:47 2011. The jog in Grand was at Lafayette. Dekalb was straight through. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by jan k. lorenzen on Thu Oct 20 17:24:53 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by trains61 on Thu Oct 20 01:59:47 2011. PJ's or across the street on DeKalb? |
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| (1110965) | |
Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Oct 20 17:37:41 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by blue8irt on Thu Oct 20 12:50:57 2011. Perhaps, if you had visited Pratt 40 years ago, instead of 4, you might have changed your tune! Your problem is that you have this armchair view of elevated lines which were obsolete back then- but might not be now! I have never heard any of the residents on Lexington Ave clamoring for bus or train service. Nor, have I read anything about Lex residents protesting closure of their el in 1950. Same with Myrtle Ave in 1969. I am aware of the bus service on Myrtle Ave. Finally, I have no idea why they put up a section of Brooklyn's first el over Lexington Ave. But, I guess things were different in the 1880's. |
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| (1110968) | |
Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Oct 20 17:42:46 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by jan k. lorenzen on Thu Oct 20 17:19:49 2011. Which begs the question, why not just have a simple ticket transfer at Bridge/Jay, between the el and the subway. Like the one they had at Franklin/Fulton, between the shuttle and the subway? |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Oct 20 17:56:13 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 20 07:41:54 2011. yes it is...and I've made some wonderful new friends because of it! |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Oct 20 18:34:07 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by jan k. lorenzen on Mon Oct 17 13:46:05 2011. How come they didn't keep the Grand Ave station part of the Myrtle el, when they tore down the final section of the Lex el's platform, in 1953? I'm sure some of the Pratt students would have used it. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by blue8irt on Thu Oct 20 19:47:04 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Oct 20 17:37:41 2011. I don't know or understand what your rant is about. I was lucky to visit Pratt at all. My cancer was found accidentally as the results of a test for something else. It was never found, I'd have been dead in 9 months. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Oct 20 20:15:34 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Oct 20 17:37:41 2011. I doubt if there were many NIMBYs in the late 19th century. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by MELLOW ONE on Thu Oct 20 21:42:22 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Oct 20 17:37:41 2011. The Lexington Ave El was the remainder of the first Brooklyn Elevated RR, that was known as The Park St Elevated, that started from the Fulton Ferry on the East River, under the Brooklyn Bridge in 1885. Does anyone have the announcement date of the line and the subsequent start of costruction? We know that it opened in 1885 and the route went from Fulton Ferry along the North wall of the Brooklyn Bridge (I have to look up the name of that street) to York St, out York St to turn onto Hudson St, Hudson St to turn onto Park St, out Park St to turn onto Grand Ave, down Grand Ave to Lexington Ave, Lexington Ave out to Broadway, then out Broadway to East NY.The route was probably selected because none of the streets of the route had horse cars running on them, except for Broadway. Three years later, the Myrtle Ave El opened to Grand Ave, where it joined the Old Main Line, as the Park St El was called then. Construction of the Myrtle Ave El probably started not long after the Park St El opened. The Broadway El to Driggs Ave and Broadway Ferry opened in 1888 and the 5th Ave El opened on an extension of the Old Main Line on Hudson St to Flatbush and Atlantic Ave, The LIRR Terminal. There was a lot of elevated railway construction going on in 1887 and 1888 in Brooklyn. Two years later in 1890 the Park St El section of the Old Main Line was closed and removed between Hudson St and Myrtle Ave. That part of the line became redundant because of the Myrtle Ave El was only one block away and was a better and improved structure over the Park St structure. However, the Lexington Ave section continued on through electrification until 1950 because it was the link to the Broadway El East until the connection to the Myrtle Ave El was opened in 1916. That connection went from the Broadway El to the Myrtle East and from the Myrtle to the Broadway El West. The lower part of the Myrtle and Lexington Ave Els were never improved or expanded during the Dual Contract Era except for the improved Broadway Subway connection to the improved outer section of the Myrtle Ave El. The Lexington El structure was built for two tracks beause Grand and Lexington Avenues were narrow streets. The Myrtle Ave El provided that essential link to Downtown Brooklyn which was not otherwise duplicated by the Subway Lines from the Northeastern part of Brooklyn. The Lexington Ave El filled in the gap to the Southeast. I do not believe that there was any clamor to take down the Lex except for the TA people after WWII, possibly becaue of its age. I do not believe that there was ever any replacement for it planned or proposed either. There was a considerable amount neighborhood clearance and rebuilding that occurred before and after WWII and into the 60's that sholuld have relied upon rapid transit. However, the lower Myrtle was not improved and the Lex was removed in 1951. So much for the powers that be for providing good rapid transit to an area or neighborhood that was being redeveloped. It has been over 60 years after the Lex was removed and almost 50 years since the lower Myrtle was removed. Although, we wax nostalgic about the Els, they were a very utilitarian and deserved to be retained and upgraded or replaced to maintain the rapid transit utility. |
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