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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 24 03:02:56 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 17:00:41 2004. When did I use the word Moshiach that I neglected to define it?The Principles you linked me to mention Moshiach. Just wondered if you had a definition outside those Principles, as you had a definition of God's form that was outside the Principles . . . |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 24 03:05:12 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 16:48:12 2004. That's always been a questionable translation. "In the beginning, the judges made the heavens and the earth" . . . certainly doesn't fit. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Fri Dec 24 04:17:03 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by BIE on Thu Dec 23 16:14:16 2004. BIE Mandatory Two-Word Confirmation Post has been met in this thread. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Dec 24 07:25:15 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Fri Dec 24 04:17:03 2004. Wow, he's expanding his vocabulary!:) |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Fri Dec 24 08:55:12 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 24 03:02:56 2004. I didn't post a link to the 13 Principles until after you asked me about Moshiach. Why did you ask? |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Fri Dec 24 09:45:02 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 24 03:01:24 2004. A human form is by definition physical.The king of Tyre was a king -- a person, not an an angel. The language is obviously (well, it's obvious to one who can understand the original Hebrew) poetic; the word 'kruv' is obviously a metaphor. Nothing is "shown" in Job 4:18. Job himself is speaking. He has every reason to be angry, don't you think? (Or are you not familiar with the story of Job? Did you not bother to read the context?) And why are you arguing with the principles? Nobody said you have to agree with them. You asked what they were; I told you. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Fri Dec 24 09:56:09 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 24 03:05:12 2004. Also, not only. See Exodus 22:7-8. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by American Pig on Fri Dec 24 10:52:25 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 24 03:05:12 2004. Talk about legislating from the bench! |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by American Pig on Fri Dec 24 10:54:47 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by vengence on Thu Dec 23 20:22:08 2004. The non believers crusade against GODBy definition, crusades can't be against God. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by BIE on Fri Dec 24 12:39:54 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 24 02:46:23 2004. Vengence is no fan of bu$h. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by BIE on Fri Dec 24 12:41:12 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Dec 24 07:25:15 2004. 8-) |
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Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists |
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Posted by :: R33 9306 OWNS :: on Fri Dec 24 12:59:34 2004, in response to Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists, posted by American Pig on Thu Dec 23 23:20:24 2004. How is my saying "Merry Christmas" to people eroding separation of church and state? It's a personal/private comment. Not a law. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 24 13:42:57 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Dec 24 09:56:09 2004. Exodus 227 If a man shall deliver unto his neighbour money or stuff to keep, and it be stolen out of the man’s house; if the thief be found, let him pay double. 8 If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the judges, to see whether he have put his hand unto his neighbour’s goods. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 24 13:46:01 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Dec 24 09:45:02 2004. Job Chapter 181. Then answered Bildad the Shuhite, and said, 2. How long will it be ere ye make an end of words? mark, and afterwards we will speak. 3. Wherefore are we counted as beasts, and reputed vile in your sight? 4. He teareth himself in his anger:shall the earth be forsaken for thee? and shall the rock be removed out of his place? 5. Yea, the light of the wicked shall be put out, and the spark of his fire shall not shine. 6. The light shall be dark in his tabernacle, and his candle shall be put out with him. 7. The steps of his strength shall be straitened, and his own counsel shall cast him down. 8. For he is cast into a net by his own feet, and he walketh upon a snare. 9. The gin shall take him by the heel, and the robber shall prevail against him. 10. The snare is laid for him in the ground, and a trap for him in the way. 11. Terrors shall make him afraid on every side, and shall drive him to his feet. 12. His strength shall be hungerbitten, and destruction shall be ready at his side. 13. It shall devour the strength of his skin:even the firstborn of death shall devour his strength. 14. His confidence shall be rooted out of his tabernacle, and it shall bring him to the king of terrors. 15. It shall dwell in his tabernacle, because it is none of his:brimstone shall be scattered upon his habitation. 16. His roots shall be dried up beneath, and above shall his branch be cut off. 17. His remembrance shall perish from the earth, and he shall have no name in the street. 18. He shall be driven from light into darkness, and chased out of the world. 19. He shall neither have son nor nephew among his people, nor any remaining in his dwellings. 20. They that come after him shall be astonied at his day, as they that went before were affrighted. 21. Surely such are the dwellings of the wicked, and this is the place of him that knoweth not God. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Fri Dec 24 13:47:24 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 24 13:42:57 2004. Now find the word "judges" in the Hebrew. Same word as in Genesis 1:1. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Fri Dec 24 13:48:12 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 24 13:46:01 2004. No, chapter 4. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 24 13:58:25 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Dec 24 13:47:24 2004. Genesis Chapter 11. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 24 14:00:42 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Dec 24 13:48:12 2004. Ooops, I missed the 4. I was wondering what what I copied and pasted had to do with the discussion.Job Chapter 4 18. Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly: 19. How much less in them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, which are crushed before the moth? |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by American Pig on Fri Dec 24 15:35:28 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 24 13:58:25 2004. Any study of the Hebrew Bible or Old Testament MUST be done in Hebrew. Similarly any study of the New Testament MUST be done in Greek. Any other language is useless. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Dec 24 16:19:25 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by American Pig on Fri Dec 24 15:35:28 2004. "Similarly any study of the New Testament MUST be done in Greek."Why Greek? It wasn't written in Greek. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by monorail on Fri Dec 24 16:45:43 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Orange Blossom Express on Mon Dec 20 20:51:49 2004. what difference does it make what they say? If you don't care to celebrate it, then don't!think of it as someone saying "Be happy"! It's still up to you to decide whether or not you want to be happy. In order to get along with each other we need to tolerate each other. When tolerance fails, the clock may well go back 64 years or so |
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Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists |
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Posted by monorail on Fri Dec 24 16:48:49 2004, in response to No, It's the Liberal Secularists, posted by Verbal Kent on Thu Dec 23 20:59:15 2004. only if we give in to THEIR desires |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by vengence on Fri Dec 24 16:49:35 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Dec 23 11:57:39 2004. While I am a Christian...I do not believe in the "TRINITY"..By all standards..it just doesn't make sense... GOD the Father GOD the Son GOD the Holy Ghost.... The Holy Spirit is GOD's POWER[Active life force] Whereas,Jesus himself never claimed to be GOD himself,but said"The Father and I are one"...meaning "of one mind,dealing with a particular task..." He also said he would rise on the 3rd day and sit on the RIGHT SIDE OF THE FATHER....and would intercide on MAN's behalf..... TOO many contradictions...mixed with many doctrins.... |
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Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists |
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Posted by monorail on Fri Dec 24 16:50:21 2004, in response to Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists, posted by :: R33 9306 OWNS :: on Fri Dec 24 12:59:34 2004. And if they CHOOSE not to have a Merry Christmas, that is solely up to them! |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Dec 24 17:03:12 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by AlM on Fri Dec 24 16:19:25 2004.  Why Greek? It wasn't written in Greek. Much of it was written in Greek, some of it was written in Aramaic. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by vengence on Fri Dec 24 17:05:03 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by American Pig on Fri Dec 24 10:54:47 2004. Why...because he can be seen with the eye's..can't be felt with hands....?You can still "feel" him..in your heart,mind,soul..... You can attack the "concept" of GOD..... You can attack a persons faith directly and indirectly... This is what's happening in this country TODAY...and will continue untill the end.... |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by vengence on Fri Dec 24 17:07:43 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Dec 24 09:45:02 2004. The King of TYRE was a verse about the coming ANIT CHRIST.... |
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Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Dec 24 17:09:30 2004, in response to Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists, posted by American Pig on Thu Dec 23 23:20:24 2004. There is no seperation of Church and state anywhere in the constitution and especially not in the "Bill of Rights". There was no such intent by the founding fathers, to maintain such seperation. The Bill of Rights, after all, was written largely by James Madison. That's the same James Madison who hired the first Chaplain of the Congress.Incidently, there is also no provision in the Bill of Rights that says you have the right not to be offended. If you are offended by people wishing you a merry Christmas, ehhhh! The strange thing is that the ACLU (American Criminal Liberties Union) would fight against Christmas Carols in schools but will fight against banning pornographic literature in those same schools. No offense but you Secularists are one fucked up bunch. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by vengence on Fri Dec 24 17:11:25 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Dec 21 22:29:56 2004. Whats so offending about seeing nayivity scene..in a store window? I'll never understand people who could play vido games..or watch horror movies..having a problem with this.... |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Dec 24 17:12:18 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by vengence on Fri Dec 24 17:07:43 2004. The King of TYRE was a verse about the coming ANTI CHRIST....I am an anti-Christ I am an anarchist, don't know what I want but I know how to get it. I wanna destroy the passer by 'cos I wanna be anarchy My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Dec 24 17:18:14 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by American Pig on Tue Dec 21 15:27:09 2004. The celebration of Christmas and Chanukah are coincidental to the occurrence of the new year. The meanings of the 3 celebrations have nothing to do with each other and to try to combine them demeans them. I'm not sure about the celebration of Kwanzza as it relates to the new year. Those who celebrate the Winter Solstace, however, may not mind the celebration 10 days later on New Years Eve. Then again, they might.The point is, why not celebrate the holidays seperately? If you choose not to, then don't but live and let live. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by vengence on Fri Dec 24 17:20:33 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 16:11:59 2004. Moses ,before he was taken by GOD,ASKED him a favor..He asked GOD,"CAN I SEE YOU IN ALL YOUR GLORY..? GOD..said...Any man that look upon my face shall surely die...but as I pass..I will cover your face WITH MY HAND...whereas AFTER I PASS, you will SEE my BACK PARTS...... Moses SAW GOD as a man.... |
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Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists |
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Posted by BIE on Fri Dec 24 17:27:51 2004, in response to Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists, posted by monorail on Fri Dec 24 16:50:21 2004. Christmas is not my holiday but I wish a Merry Christmas to those who do observe it. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by American Pig on Fri Dec 24 18:18:32 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by AlM on Fri Dec 24 16:19:25 2004. It wasn't? |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by American Pig on Fri Dec 24 18:20:33 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by vengence on Fri Dec 24 17:11:25 2004. There is nothing wrong at all with a nativity scene in a store window. However there is a problem with one in a courthouse window. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by American Pig on Fri Dec 24 18:21:42 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Train Dude on Fri Dec 24 17:18:14 2004. I'm proposing Happy New Year as the official government holiday. People are free to celebrate as they choose. |
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Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists |
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Posted by American Pig on Fri Dec 24 18:32:49 2004, in response to Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists, posted by Train Dude on Fri Dec 24 17:09:30 2004. There is no seperation of Church and state anywhere in the constitution and especially not in the "Bill of Rights".The establishment clause creates a separation of church and state. This was in fact the intention and has been reinforced through 200 years of legal tradition. If you are offended by people wishing you a merry Christmas, ehhhh! I am not offended by this, but I am offended by Christmas being an official holiday. It clearly makes sense to close government facilities on Christmas if nobody will be using them, but why is Christmas a day on which it is recommended to fly the flag? We don't have to fly the flag on Yom Kippur, or Eid Al-Fitr, or the Asian New Year. Why Christmas? If those other holidays were flag-flying days, I would be just as offended, even though I celebrate one of them. The strange thing is that the ACLU (American Criminal Liberties Union) would fight against Christmas Carols in schools but will fight against banning pornographic literature in those same schools. I would need a source for your comment on pornographic literature in order to comment on it, but Christmas Carols that mention Christ (not stuff about Santa or snow) are unacceptable in public schools unless the children sing them on their own. The ACLU is right here. No offense but you Secularists are one fucked up bunch. Religious governments are great, they include such great nations as Spain during the Inquisition, the Papal States, the Islamic Republic of Iran, Talibanic Afghanistan. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by American Pig on Fri Dec 24 18:34:36 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by vengence on Fri Dec 24 17:05:03 2004. What does that have to do with what I said?Do you know what a CRUSade is? |
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Crusades |
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Posted by American Pig on Fri Dec 24 18:46:50 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by American Pig on Fri Dec 24 18:34:36 2004. This post is better than the previous one:That has nothing to do with what I said about crusades Crusade means Christ battle, it is by definition a holy war. A war agaisnt religion should be an anti-crusade. The real Crusades all sucked. Any religion that needs government support in order to survive is weak and stupid. Any government that needs religion in order to survive is weak and stupid like Fredo. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Anon_e_mouse on Fri Dec 24 19:09:48 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by American Pig on Fri Dec 24 18:21:42 2004. I'm proposing Happy New Year as the official government holiday. People are free to celebrate as they choose.But whose New Year? Ours, or the Christian one, or the Muslim one, or the Asian one, or... ???? Until next time... Anon_e_mouse |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by American Pig on Fri Dec 24 19:35:08 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Anon_e_mouse on Fri Dec 24 19:09:48 2004. The civil new year. Yeah, it has some religious origins, but it's too disruptive to change it now. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Dec 24 19:58:44 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Anon_e_mouse on Fri Dec 24 19:09:48 2004. How about December 23? Non-denominational and owned by no one. ANOTHER Festivus miracle! :) |
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Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Dec 24 21:12:08 2004, in response to Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists, posted by Train Dude on Fri Dec 24 17:09:30 2004. There is no seperation of Church and state anywhere in the constitution and especially not in the "Bill of Rights". There was no such intent by the founding fathers, to maintain such seperation. The Bill of Rights, after all, was written largely by James Madison. That's the same James Madison who hired the first Chaplain of the Congress.You mean the same James Madison who wrote: "What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not." |
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Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Dec 24 21:19:04 2004, in response to Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Dec 24 21:12:08 2004. And so, the section of the constitution that says that the government shall not establish a (state) religion. That's a far stretch to banning a Christmas tree in front of Town Hall. |
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Re: Crusades |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Fri Dec 24 22:22:02 2004, in response to Crusades, posted by American Pig on Fri Dec 24 18:46:50 2004. I thought the Crusades sucked because of weak overall leadership. When Richard of England and Louis of Franch ran theirs, Europeans did pretty well in The Holy Land. But the Children's Crusade was done in by a lack of leadership. All those children recruited and most of them were captured and sold into slavery. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 24 22:34:49 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Dec 24 17:12:18 2004. Sex Pistols or Megadeath version? |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 24 22:39:31 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by vengence on Fri Dec 24 17:11:25 2004. I agree with Pig on this. I see nothing wrong with a Nativity scene in a store window, or any private property. After all, I am Catholic. However, I don't believe it belongs on Public property, such as a courthouse, as mentioned, or city hall, etc.But again, I have no problem with pine, lights, or ribbons on public property, those are not religious items. They could just as easily be New year's decorations. There's nothing religious about those items. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Dec 24 22:42:25 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Anon_e_mouse on Fri Dec 24 19:09:48 2004. January 1st is the secular New Year. That's the one that is widely celebrated by everyone, no matter the religion.The Christian New Year occurs in Spring around Easter, The Jewish New Year in the Autumn, etc, but those should not be national holidays. The secular one ends Dec 31st and begins January 1st. |
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Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Dec 24 22:59:54 2004, in response to Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists, posted by Train Dude on Fri Dec 24 21:19:04 2004. Might I infer from your lack of a direct response that you no longer view James Madison as one of the "christian" founders of this country? I cannot find a single positive sentiment for religion in that statement. Can you?And so, the section of the constitution that says that the government shall not establish a (state) religion. That's a far stretch to banning a Christmas tree in front of Town Hall. The Madison wrote that statement in 1785. It is a reasonable assumption that it expressed his view on religion at the time of the writing of the Constitution and Bill of Rights less than 5 years later. How did Madison view the courts' interpretation of the Establishment clause? The following was written in 1822: "Every new and successful example therefore of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance........religion and government will exist in greater purity, without (rather) than with the aid of government" As for Christmas trees They were unknown in colonial America. They were introduced into England by Prince Albert and found their way into the US. They are not of religious origin and their display has not been ruled unconstitutional. The question is whether or not religious symbols, specifically nativity scenes, can be displayed on public property. The courts have ruled that such scenes are religious and should not be placed on public property. They can still be displayed and are displayed on private property. One interesting side note. The main branch of the Flushing Post Office has had a display for at least 30 years. It consists of signs in many languages wishing people seasons greetings. The signs in french and russian originally stated "happy new year"; they now state "merry christmas". The sign in hebrew has remained "happy holiday". |
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Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Dec 25 08:47:23 2004, in response to Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Dec 24 22:59:54 2004. As for Christmas treesThey were unknown in colonial America. They were introduced into England by Prince Albert and found their way into the US. They are not of religious origin and their display has not been ruled unconstitutional. Correct. There is nothing religious about a pine tree. |
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