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| Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. (752073) | |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Mar 16 08:32:25 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by BMTLines on Wed Mar 16 00:46:51 2011. (Skip ahead to 1:33 to see the relevant part). Atheists are not opposed to belief in God (or deities, etc) in principle. If God came down and smacked them on the head, they'd have to believe. Sans evidence (especially since there is some evidence for absence) there is no reason to believe. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Mar 16 09:51:17 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by JayMan on Tue Mar 15 22:49:11 2011. And females, of course, the main driver of male aggression. There usually is a reason for violence. Violence is a goal-oriented activity. But that doesn't make it any more moral. Let's look at the human equivalent: massacring a people and taking their women. Would you call that a moral activity?That counts as a survival reason, more success with females = more success in continuing your gene pool. Did you watch the videos? And elephants aren't exactly predators... Elephants are even scared of rats, there's a good chance that those elephants could have viewed the animal as a threat. And besides, you're arguing a silly point. There is no question that there are all sorts of awful activities animals inflict on each other, and no reason to expect that they wouldn't (kill or be killed). In your defense of animal behavior you are implementing what's known as the "naturalistic fallacy"; i.e., what is natural is good. This is clearly false, while many natural things are good, nature contains many harms as well. Also be projecting your "noble beast" onto animals, you are implementing the converse fallacy, the moralistic fallacy -- if a trait is good, it is found in nature. Not so, natural selection would not give two whits about morality, all it's concerned with is success by any means. In the natural world, nice guys really do finish last. Morality was something that was built by the ground up by social species, as it serves to increase the fitness of species that can live in groups, since it is then useful and even necessary if they are able not exploit and/or kill one another. Humans are the ultimate expression of this trend, and we continue to develop better ways of treating one another. I've never said all of that, just that except for smarter animals like Chimps & Dolphins, there hasn't been any research that suggests that animals kill for non-survival reasons. You don't have to tell me about what nature can do because I personally think every non-domesticated animal is a waste of life, as cruel as that sounds, but that's another topic. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Mar 16 09:52:17 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by SMAZ on Tue Mar 15 22:19:52 2011. I see, thanks for the explanation, I understand where JayMan's coming from now. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Mar 16 09:58:23 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 16 06:58:46 2011. There are plenty of other religions out there which condone similarly terrorist acts (like the Peoples Temple), and it let me know how much power & influence those religions have, and how a religious leader can brainwash people into believe anything. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Mar 16 10:01:25 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Mar 16 09:51:17 2011. Elephants are even scared of rats, there's a good chance that those elephants could have viewed the animal as a threat. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Mar 16 10:19:19 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 15 16:19:41 2011. I know, but just the idea of never experiencing anything again for an eternity is pretty nerve-racking. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Mar 16 10:20:28 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 15 16:20:44 2011. I don't have any moral qualms about executing brutal and unrepentant murderers.That's across the line into mental illness though. I just don't see it as necessary and given the risks inherent, not worth it. Agreed. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 12:55:25 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 16 06:57:56 2011. Of course they have, but my point is that 9/11 wouldn't have happened, not that there wouldn't be any terrorism. The fewer reasons for terrorism the better. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 12:56:28 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 12:55:25 2011. Also, that photo could also have been captioned "A world without Islam," but I like that it goes further. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Mar 16 12:58:20 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Mar 16 09:51:17 2011. I think you are misunderstanding the concept behind what I am saying. I never said that violence wasn't in an animal's "rational" self-interest. It usually is; otherwise it would never have evolved. But this doesn't make aggression moral or justifiable (anymore than the human equivalent would be). So examples like this represent a false dichotomy you are setting up:except for smarter animals like Chimps & Dolphins, there hasn't been any research that suggests that animals kill for non-survival reasons. There is plenty of evidence, as I've pointed out. But that's besides the point. The tendency towards aggression -- which includes killing for the sheer joy of it -- evolved because it was usually advantageous to the organism to be violent. Selfish aggression (and selfish behavior in general) evolved long before any concept of morality developed, which was a product of social species living in larger and more complex groups -- rules of how to treat one another developed gradually and very piecemeal. Both were products of the very amoral process of natural selection. The only reason humans have a moral sense is that we do better than we would have if we were blithely ravaging one another. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Mar 16 12:59:39 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Mar 16 10:19:19 2011. Yeah, I am very scared to die too. But let's just say you won't be able to think about it after it happens... |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 16 13:05:33 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Mar 16 09:58:23 2011. But there are plenty of other religions out that which did NOT condone it and which do not brainwash people. So......?Also, plenty of non-religious people can condone terrorist acts and brainwash people. So......? |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 16 13:12:06 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 12:55:25 2011. But my point was that 9/11 could have still happened. Someone could have taken down the Twin Towers on 9/11 for one of the other reasons that wars happen. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 15:08:11 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 16 13:12:06 2011. Anything "could" happen. The point is that this specific event wouldn't have happened, and wars based on things other than religion happen differently. They're less likely to have suicide bombers for one. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Mar 16 15:46:48 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 16 13:05:33 2011. But there are plenty of other religions out that which did NOT condone itJust like there are plenty of other religions that condone other violent acts. and which do not brainwash people. So......? All religions brainwash people one way or another, sometimes in good ways though I'll admit. Also, plenty of non-religious people can condone terrorist acts and brainwash people. So......? Non-religious people will be more blunt with their brainwashing, and won't try to sugarcoat it by saying that you'll get "70 virgins in heaven". |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 16 16:31:31 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Mar 16 15:46:48 2011. Just like there are plenty of other religions that condone other violent acts. Just like there are plenty of other religions that don't condone other violent acts. In fact, I would hazard to guess that the total membership of the religions that generally don't condone these violent acts is orders of magnitude larger than the membership of the religions that do. So......? All religions brainwash people one way or another, sometimes in good ways though I'll admit. If you're going to use "brainwash" in that broad of a definition, then everyone brainwashes or is being brainwashed all the time. If you want to narrow down the definition, then we can discuss what certain religions do or don't do. Non-religious people will be more blunt with their brainwashing, and won't try to sugarcoat it by saying that you'll get "70 virgins in heaven". So? If you don't have a weak mind, you can objectively evaluate what you are being told. I still don't see from you any real reason why 9/11 should have made you realize that all organized religion is bad. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Mar 16 16:36:49 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by JayMan on Wed Mar 16 12:58:20 2011. The tendency towards aggression -- which includes killing for the sheer joy of it -- evolved because it was usually advantageous to the organism to be violent.That's what I said, but yes I see your point now & agree with it. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Mar 16 16:55:25 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 16 16:31:31 2011. Just like there are plenty of other religions that don't condone other violent acts. In fact, I would hazard to guess that the total membership of the religions that generally don't condone these violent acts is orders of magnitude larger than the membership of the religions that do. So......?I have to disagree with that, I think that most religions to condone violence and/or intimidation. If you're going to use "brainwash" in that broad of a definition, then everyone brainwashes or is being brainwashed all the time. If you want to narrow down the definition, then we can discuss what certain religions do or don't do. All religions brainwash people in one way or another like I said, and encourage those they brainwashed to brainwash others. So? If you don't have a weak mind, you can objectively evaluate what you are being told. A lot of religious people are gullible & easily controlled. I still don't see from you any real reason why 9/11 should have made you realize that all organized religion is bad. I never said it was bad, just that I personally gave up in it. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 19:10:17 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Fred G on Wed Mar 16 05:31:40 2011. Maybe but some people are able to take a complicated view of things. I may prefer fewer taxes deducted from my paycheck, but I know that life would be worse without those deductions, so I accept them. Of course, I may believe that they are too high but not that the taxes are inherently wrong. That's the difference between liberals and conservatives. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 19:14:40 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 13:43:14 2011. The problem is you seem to believe that the so-called Ten Commandments actually were given on Mt. Sinai all at once as opposed to being developed over time like any other legal code from existing moral concepts.As if there was some boundary between moral society and immoral society that was crossed on a single day thousands of years ago. That and of course the Ten Commandments themselves as a unit are useless for modern society. While a few of them are valid, many of them are not and then there are the other 603 commandments in the Torah, again some of which are valid and some of which are not. It all seems to me like a big coincidence which ones modern society chooses to follow and which ones they don't. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 19:21:27 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Fred G on Tue Mar 15 15:20:54 2011. Most laws in the US are not based on the so-called Ten Commandments (the Ten Statements) because the Ten Commandments are not an exhaustive system of laws, while at the same time including statements that are completely contrary to the American system of laws. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Fred G on Wed Mar 16 19:22:53 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 19:10:17 2011. I see that point, where some people would see red over the deductions. I always groused about it but didn't strap on the pistola.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Mar 16 19:29:08 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 19:14:40 2011. The problem is you seem to believe that the so-called Ten Commandments actually were given on Mt. Sinai all at once as opposed to being developed over time like any other legal code from existing moral concepts.One of his many problems on this thread. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Fred G on Wed Mar 16 20:05:52 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 19:21:27 2011. I guess coveting would be encouraged in a capitalist society to give some fuel to the system. Prohibiting killing and stealing ok, false witness also. I think you got me on the rest of them tho.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Mar 16 20:11:58 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 19:14:40 2011. False. Charlton Heston has proff! :)
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Easy on Wed Mar 16 20:16:38 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Mar 16 20:11:58 2011. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Mar 16 20:21:21 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Easy on Wed Mar 16 20:16:38 2011. Heh. That was priceless indeed! :) |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 16 20:42:38 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 19:14:40 2011. And how is that a problem?The only thing you got right in that is that the Ten Commandments pre-existed the events on Sinai. That and of course the Ten Commandments themselves as a unit are useless for modern society You're a fool. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 16 20:44:14 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 15 12:09:35 2011. Keep laughing all the way into the detention camp. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university |
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Posted by Fred G on Wed Mar 16 21:13:51 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 16 20:44:14 2011.  your pal, Fred |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Wed Mar 16 21:16:43 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university, posted by Fred G on Wed Mar 16 21:13:51 2011. Olog needs a ride in a luxury Auto Rack. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Wed Mar 16 21:27:16 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 16 20:44:14 2011. that is where you belong. If you Nazis keep it up, America will wake up and you'll be riding an auto rack to a nice camp in Arizona. All the SPAM you can eat. ASSHOLE. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Mar 16 21:29:17 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university, posted by Fred G on Wed Mar 16 21:13:51 2011. lol |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 22:01:06 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 16 20:42:38 2011. 
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 22:02:48 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 16 20:44:14 2011. As opposed to the insane asylum you belong in?You are a drug addict, worshiping a FALSE GOD. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 16 22:05:06 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 22:02:48 2011. How communistic are you trying to be? That anomaly's been proven a failure. Let it go. Better learn what founding fathers like Washington and Adams had to say about the constitution of the country you live in . . . the country that doesn't send you to a gulag if you speak your mind . . . |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 22:13:49 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 16 22:05:06 2011. Not all atheists are communists. But all people named "Olog-hai" on this board are idiots.Why do you love the Communist Manifesto so much that you have to refer to it all the time? You have an OBSESSION. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 16 22:16:48 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 22:13:49 2011. Not all atheists are communistsWho said they were? But all people named "Olog-hai" on this board are idiots Says the biggest fool on here. Why do you love the Communist Manifesto so much that you have to refer to it all the time? Just to remind you of what you've been brainwashed by. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university |
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Posted by Dand124 on Wed Mar 16 22:17:59 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 22:13:49 2011. By Olog-hai’s logic Ayn Rand was a communists. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Mar 16 22:18:52 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 22:13:49 2011. communistsWhat do all those tattoos on the forearms and hands of the Buhkarians symbolize? I'm afraid to ask them. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 16 22:21:21 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university, posted by Dand124 on Wed Mar 16 22:17:59 2011. You mustn't be paying attention to my logic, if you drew that conclusion. Never at any time did I say "all atheists are communists". However, I don't mind throwing out the accusation whenever some useful idiot alludes to Marx. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 22:25:34 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 16 22:21:21 2011. By your logic everybody who believes the world is round is a Nazi because Hitler believed the world was round. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 22:27:19 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university, posted by LuchAAA on Wed Mar 16 22:18:52 2011. What tattoos? |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Mar 16 22:30:51 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 22:27:19 2011. cryptic tattoos. Angels. Series of lines. Circles near the thumb. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Fred G on Wed Mar 16 22:32:33 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 22:01:06 2011. Hahaha!!your pal, Fred |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 23:54:00 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university, posted by LuchAAA on Wed Mar 16 22:30:51 2011. I never heard of that. Sorry. Unlikely to be religious became Jews shun tattoos. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Mar 17 00:09:53 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 16 23:54:00 2011. They are definitely Jewish. I think they are mafiya tattoos. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 17 00:10:53 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives, says a liberal university, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Mar 17 00:09:53 2011. Sounds like it. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Mar 17 03:59:36 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by JayMan on Wed Mar 16 12:59:39 2011. "A man whose afraid to die is a man who's afraid to live"Cary Grant in "The Misfits" (1961) |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu Mar 17 06:02:26 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Mar 17 03:59:36 2011. Cary Grant wasn't in "The Misfits". Clark Gable was.your pal, Fred |
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