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| Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach (702033) | |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 1 13:33:10 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by JayMan on Wed Dec 1 13:12:40 2010. And what an amazing accident it wasWhat's amazing is that "rational" folk can regard it as accidental, especially when there are actual computer programs written into our DNA. The sciences, such as cosmology, physics, chemistry, biology and evolutionary psychology explain how we got here and how the universe came to be how we see it No they don't. Shows that you have never studied any of the sciences, and have no familiarity with the problems of demarcation and induction. As for cosmology, that is not a science; it's actually a religious term. Maybe you mean cosmogony? |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 1 13:33:43 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 1 12:54:02 2010. You sure that's the end of the story? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 1 13:36:51 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Dec 1 13:27:53 2010. Yes. All that's required is a belief that he exists. You can't use science to prove God exists.At least not yet. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Dec 1 13:38:07 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 1 13:33:10 2010. What's amazing is that "rational" folk can regard it as accidental, especially when there are actual computer programs written into our DNA.In a universe with at least 10^20 stars and on a planet with 4 billion years to make it happen why is that surprising? Shows that you have never studied any of the sciences, and have no familiarity with the problems of demarcation and induction. LMAO! I'm a physics major, son. Logical explanations to our origins have been provided by science. Perhaps you should study some of these some time. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by David Fairthorne on Wed Dec 1 13:38:56 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Dec 1 13:27:53 2010. But does God even exist?According to Christian dogma God is inscrutable, meaning "Impossible to understand or interpret; impenetrable; mysterious." So nobody can possibly know, and those who claim to know (the clergy) are paid to be experts on the inscrutable! |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Dec 1 13:39:29 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by JayMan on Wed Dec 1 13:38:07 2010. sonNow you sound like streetcarman1. In more ways than one. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Dec 1 13:39:31 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 1 13:36:51 2010. Well all you have to do is believe that there is an invisible pink unicorn in my yard. Just as you'll likely hold off on belief until I provide proof, I'll do the same with God... |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Dec 1 13:45:05 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by JayMan on Wed Dec 1 13:12:40 2010. And what an amazing accident it was.Yes. About the same likelihood of going to Las Vegas and playing 15,000 slot machines and hitting the jackpot on every single one on the first try. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by David Fairthorne on Wed Dec 1 13:45:06 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Dec 1 11:41:02 2010. There are hundreds of millions of Hindus too.Yes, and hundreds of millions of Buddhists, who do not believe in a single supreme being; not to mention hundreds of millions of atheists. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Dec 1 13:46:50 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 1 12:53:02 2010. Yes, and the President of American Atheists even admitted it during several television interviews. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by David Fairthorne on Wed Dec 1 13:49:04 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by LuchAAA on Wed Dec 1 13:45:05 2010. I recommend "The Blind Watchmaker" by Richard Dawkins. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 1 13:50:45 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by David Fairthorne on Wed Dec 1 13:38:56 2010. You can't use reason to justify faith. This is why they are two separate concepts. My belief is that they are not necessarily conflicting concepts. Reason and science has it's limitations. They answer the "what, why and how" questions. Faith answers the why. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 1 13:51:01 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by David Fairthorne on Wed Dec 1 13:38:56 2010. You can't use reason to justify faith. This is why they are two separate concepts. My belief is that they are not necessarily conflicting concepts. Reason and science has it's limitations. They answer the "what, WHERE and how" questions. Faith answers the why. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Wed Dec 1 13:55:57 2010, in response to Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Nov 30 22:21:11 2010. While they may have a right to express their views, it is in poor taste especially during the holiday season. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by BMTLines on Wed Dec 1 14:01:14 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by JayMan on Wed Dec 1 12:38:31 2010. It is called propaganda |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Wed Dec 1 14:02:28 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Nov 30 22:49:31 2010. Christians are the largest religious group here in America. That could be the reason why. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 1 14:02:42 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by LuchAAA on Wed Dec 1 11:37:10 2010. Yes. The terrorist attack one is more offensive. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 1 14:03:58 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by BMTLines on Wed Dec 1 11:38:16 2010. I am attacking your beliefs. You are taking it personally. You ADMITTED that your morality stems entirely from a mentality of "do as you're told or else." |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 1 14:04:14 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by BMTLines on Wed Dec 1 11:46:47 2010. Atheism is the most extremist religion out there. They aren't blowing stuff up (yet). What people believe should not be targeted by those who simply disagree. That's called intolerance. |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Dec 1 14:05:03 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 1 11:33:18 2010. Um yeah. I was just responding to the claim that the star is a Shout Out or Take That to Judaism.In addition to the star, the middle wise man is obviously wearing a streimel. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 1 14:08:04 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by BMTLines on Wed Dec 1 11:46:47 2010. That's an arbitrary line to draw. Hinduism and Christianity are so completely different that they cannot possibly both be correct. If you ignore the aspects of the religions that are contrary, you are left with almost nothing. The difference is that we go the extra mile and say that if there is no evidence of anything else supernatural, why must "god" be so special? |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 1 14:09:08 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 1 14:04:14 2010. Religious people have been doing it for centuries. It's about time people fight back.People have the right to believe that the sun revolves around the Earth, that doesn't mean that we can't rightly attack such beliefs as ignorant. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 1 14:11:41 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 1 12:10:05 2010. Not surprising that YOU would be the person to decry the good passages of the Bible. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 1 14:12:30 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Dec 1 14:05:03 2010. Because THEY WERE JEWS.So was Jesus. So were the 12 apostles. The billboard is clearly an attack on Christianity. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 1 14:13:07 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Dec 1 11:55:40 2010. A Google search for athrescism and threscism yielded nothing. |
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Posted by David Fairthorne on Wed Dec 1 14:13:07 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Dec 1 11:43:28 2010. Aside from the ridiculousness of the idea of proving a negative,I don't see why that's ridiculous. In mathematics you sometimes prove affirmatives (for instance existence and uniqueness theorems) and you sometimes prove negatives (nonexistence theorems). Example of a proven negative: there is no rational number whose value is the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. Sometimes you prove affirmatives by contradiction (assuming the proposition to be false and arriving at a contradiction). Sometimes you prove negatives by contradiction (assuming the proposition to be true and arriving at a contradiction). what do you mean by "God" anyway? Scientists sometimes use the word "God" as an personification of nature. Einstein didn't like the randomness of quantum mechanics because he didn't think God would play dice. I don't much like the idea that God would divide by zero, creating black holes. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 1 14:15:50 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 1 12:07:41 2010. It is when it's by the government? Confusing the USA with a theocracy again? |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by f179dj on Wed Dec 1 14:16:44 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 1 13:33:10 2010. "As for cosmology, that is not a science; it's actually a religious term. Maybe you mean cosmogony?"Showing my age but, when I studied cosmology in college, it was another word for metaphysics (I preferred epistemology btw). |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 1 14:18:30 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 1 12:11:32 2010. Once again, negatives can safely be assumed to be false unless PROVEN where they are spectacularly unlikely. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Dec 1 14:18:49 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 1 13:50:45 2010. They answer the "what, why and how" questions. Faith answers the why.I would say that you contradicted yourself, but I won't pick issue with that. You can't use reason to justify faith. This is why they are two separate concepts. Actually, all things that believers say are based on faith are indeed based on some form of tangible evidence. To paraphrase Julia Sweeney from Letting Go of God, is not your "faith" in a God based on some aspect of the world that leads you to believe that there is a God? So the point is that you can't sweep reason aside in regard to God because it seems inconvenient to you to do so. Reason still holds, as it does for all things in the universe, and when applied to God reason leads to the inescapable conclusion that there is no basis for belief in him. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 1 14:18:50 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 1 12:12:05 2010. So what? |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Dec 1 14:21:45 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by LuchAAA on Wed Dec 1 13:45:05 2010. Let me ask you a question: How do you know what the odds really are? First of all, to make any statement about the probability of an event occurring, one must have some knowledge of the alternatives. What exactly are the alternatives to our non-existence? I can tell you that every single one of those alternatives absolutely DO NOT have us here debating the matter. |
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Posted by David Fairthorne on Wed Dec 1 14:22:37 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Fred G on Wed Dec 1 05:09:59 2010. Nothing greases the wheels of war better than monotheism,That's why I prefer polytheism, where you have a number of gods and they can all get along with one another. That avoids the need for holy wars. |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Dec 1 14:23:14 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by BMTLines on Wed Dec 1 14:01:14 2010. So then is mathematics... |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Dec 1 14:25:14 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 1 14:04:14 2010. Atheism is the most extremist religion out there.No, atheism by definition is the exact opposite of religion, and I refuse to allow the religious to make that false association. |
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Posted by David Fairthorne on Wed Dec 1 14:27:38 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 1 13:50:45 2010. Faith answers the why.It may try to do so, but nobody really knows the answers to the "why" questions. Is faith any different from gullibility? |
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Posted by David Fairthorne on Wed Dec 1 14:27:38 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 1 13:50:45 2010. Faith answers the why.It may try to do so, but nobody really knows the answers to the "why" questions. Is faith any different from gullibility? |
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Posted by BMTLines on Wed Dec 1 14:30:10 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by JayMan on Wed Dec 1 14:23:14 2010. And who or what created the "laws" and theorems that mathematics follows? Are you saying that it happened completely at random? |
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Posted by f179dj on Wed Dec 1 14:34:47 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by JayMan on Wed Dec 1 13:01:41 2010. Well guys, thanks for all the interesting reading.I'll take Pascal's wager if it comes right down to it. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Dec 1 14:38:12 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by streetcarman1 on Wed Dec 1 14:02:28 2010. If that's the case, then people, like the ones in Philly who complained about the Christmas Village, should understand that, and not spend their lives pretended to be offended by Christmas. |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Dec 1 14:38:35 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by David Fairthorne on Wed Dec 1 14:13:07 2010. >>>>Aside from the ridiculousness of the idea of proving a negative,I don't see why that's ridiculous. In mathematics you sometimes prove affirmatives (for instance existence and uniqueness theorems) and you sometimes prove negatives (nonexistence theorems). Example of a proven negative: there is no rational number whose value is the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. Sometimes you prove affirmatives by contradiction (assuming the proposition to be false and arriving at a contradiction). Sometimes you prove negatives by contradiction (assuming the proposition to be true and arriving at a contradiction). Unfortunately, it is generally understood that outside the world of strict mathematics (and by extension, abstract logic) it is impossible to prove a negative, or, conversely, to absolutely prove a positive. To do so would require complete knowledge of all possibilities, which in our state of ignorance about the universe is presently impossible. Indeed, as physicist Max Tegmark has pointed out the universe may itself be ultimately mathematical. In that case we lake the ability to garner absolute proof precisely because we lack complete knowledge of the underlying equations of reality. Scientists sometimes use the word "God" as an personification of nature. Einstein didn't like the randomness of quantum mechanics because he didn't think God would play dice. I don't much like the idea that God would divide by zero, creating black holes. In all these context it is understood to be metaphorical. Einstein didn't believe in a literal God. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 1 14:39:30 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by JayMan on Wed Dec 1 12:34:45 2010. Yes, in a way. Don't you complain when proselytizers are pushy?I would be offended by an atheist preaching in a subway car. Much more offended than by a religious person since it would make atheists look bad. But I would never complain about the words used, only the medium. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 1 14:40:00 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 1 12:36:20 2010. Good post. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 1 14:41:05 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by R30A on Wed Dec 1 01:22:00 2010. If I were so lucky to be right about such improbable things, I would have bankrupted the lottery by now. |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Dec 1 14:41:49 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by BMTLines on Wed Dec 1 14:30:10 2010. By that logic, who created the creator? Postulating a creator doesn't solve the problem. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Dec 1 14:42:17 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by JayMan on Wed Dec 1 12:34:45 2010. yes |
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Posted by David Fairthorne on Wed Dec 1 14:42:26 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by f179dj on Wed Dec 1 14:34:47 2010. I'll take Pascal's wager if it comes right down to it.Pascal only wagered that the Judeo-Christian God existed; he might have put his money on the wrong god! |
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Posted by f179dj on Wed Dec 1 14:42:39 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by David Fairthorne on Wed Dec 1 14:22:37 2010. "That's why I prefer polytheism, where you have a number of gods and they can all get along with one another."Read any Homer lately, as in the Iliad? |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Wed Dec 1 14:48:24 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by LuchAAA on Wed Dec 1 14:38:12 2010. In the case of the Christmas Village, if the sign is on a public building or property, then that is favoring one religion over another and that is WRONG! if it's on PRIVATE property, they can do whatever they want....for the most part. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 1 14:50:40 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 1 12:42:50 2010. The curious among us do not look for easy answers. There is a majesty to the mysteries of the universe, and it's always fascinating to discover new things. OTOH, believing that "God did it" is just a cheap cop out that makes the search for knowledge meaningless. Who the fuck cares what the surface of Pluto looks like if it's just whatever God decided it should look like?*This is probably why knowledge of science is so abysmal in America. Why does it matter why anything is if you can just explain it away as the will of God? It's far, far more inspiring that the complexity of life is just an "accident." If it's an accident, imagine what an intelligent designer (man) can do deliberately with that knowledge. I don't even need to imagine it. I can just look at the world in which we live. |
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