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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Aug 26 12:32:57 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 26 12:28:17 2008. Depends on the footings after. The force of the fist building falling registered almost like an earthquake. I do agree though, I don't believe it would have collapsed, but it may have become unsafe. The foundation of the remaining building wasn't meant to have it's partner fall next to it with the force it did. But yes, that being said, it wouldn't have collapsed as it did. It's hard to say what would have happened with the reamining one. |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 26 12:33:17 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 26 12:28:17 2008. Simple...when the north tower would have failed, it would have severely damaged the foundation, so much that the south tower would have fallen too. |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 26 12:35:13 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Aug 26 12:05:27 2008. Even in hindsight...the question would be which would have been the least bad option. Forgive my insensitivity, but for this post, I am thinking of science. |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Aug 26 12:36:33 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 26 12:35:13 2008. And again, not knowing exactly where the plane was going, or really what the plan was. HINDSIGHT, my friend. |
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Re: Some WTC Thoughts.... |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Aug 26 12:42:06 2008, in response to Re: Some WTC Thoughts...., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Aug 26 12:29:07 2008. No, I bet even if a part on top fell, it wouldn't pancake like WTC..and I think WTC pancaked because thermite was placed inside...and evicence of thermite was found...And I was actually surprised to see that an airplane wing actually sliced through the WTC beams...At least I think some beams were sliced... |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 26 12:48:37 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 25 18:59:51 2008. I'm saying 9/11 is being used as an excuse to violate a lot of things specifically given to citizens in the constitution. |
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Re: Some WTC Thoughts.... |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 26 13:02:53 2008, in response to Re: Some WTC Thoughts...., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Aug 26 12:29:07 2008. Oh, they wouldn't slam off the wall at all, they would have smashed through, but the building probably wouldn't ave collapsed. It was hit with a plane in the 1940's, but not nearly as big, and not nearly as fast, and it went into the building and through the wall.I disagree. For one thing, the World Trade Center unquestionably survived the impact, it just didn't survive the subsequent fire. How are you so sure that the ESB would have survived such a long-burning fire? |
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Re: Some WTC Thoughts.... |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 26 13:04:01 2008, in response to Re: Some WTC Thoughts...., posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Aug 26 12:42:06 2008. No, I bet even if a part on top fell, it wouldn't pancake like WTC..and I think WTC pancaked because thermite was placed inside...and evicence of thermite was found...And I was actually surprised to see that an airplane wing actually sliced through the WTC beams...At least I think some beams were sliced... Because your tiny brain doesn't understand physics. |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 26 13:05:12 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 26 09:32:54 2008. No. If the plane ended up hitting Indian Point it would have been much better. Fewer casualties and the anti-nuclear nuts would shut up because they'd see how well American containment buildings are designed. |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 26 13:06:08 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Aug 26 12:29:57 2008. Some times you have to repeat that noone knew what was going on while it was going on. It helps to keep perspective. |
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Re: Some WTC Thoughts.... |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 26 13:09:39 2008, in response to Re: Some WTC Thoughts...., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Aug 26 12:29:07 2008. Yeppers...I don't think you could build a practical tall structure that could withstand the impact of an aircraft.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_State_Building#1945_plane_crash http://www.onwar.com/chrono/1945/jul45/28jul45.htm http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/q0311.shtml This one includes info on a second B25 crash in 1946, and Cory Lidle's flight in 2006. |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 26 13:11:24 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 26 13:05:12 2008. Hopefully no one will ever crash a plane into Indian Point. |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by R33/R36 Mainline on Tue Aug 26 13:13:41 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 26 01:39:31 2008. If the goverment killed the people that say they blew up the WTC... then that would make it obious that they blew up the WTC.Also can you expain all the "secondary expodtions" everybody was hearing? Also can you expain the the crackling noises and light flashes people saw just before the towers fell? If you watch a video of a buiding being domished, that exactly what you see. Even FDNY firefighters said there was bombs in the buildings. Also can you expain why the windows in the lobby of the first tower was blown out? The fireball cound'nt have travel 86 stories down the evelator shaft, Because the shafts were air tight. Also can you expain in the weeks before 9/11 the weird and unsual dills? And certain sections were of the TT and building 7 were closed off for serctiy reasons? Also how come FEMA wasn't allowed to go in ground zero, when conrolled domititon was? Also can you expain why those two tanks in queens from the WWII era was blown up for no reason? The WTC was bought down in a carefully planned domitition, wheather you want to belive so or not. |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Aug 26 13:14:06 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 26 12:48:37 2008. I agree with you. |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Aug 26 13:14:17 2008, in response to What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Aug 25 04:58:48 2008. What if Barack Loses in November?Then he loses.... Life Goes on.. I wont lose an ounce of sleep on it... Still have to go to Pay Bills... Eat... Enjoy Life... |
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Re: Some WTC Thoughts.... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Aug 26 13:16:32 2008, in response to Re: Some WTC Thoughts...., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 26 13:02:53 2008. I don't know, but it was constructed differently. The support system is what failed in the WTC. The ESB is built totally different. And also contains a lot of conrete within the differently constructed beams. The floors aren't connected in the same way in the ESB as they were in the WTC. While I can't say for sure either way, there is a much better chance that the ESB would have survived both the impact and the fires. |
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Re:: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 26 13:18:23 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by Railman718 on Tue Aug 26 13:14:17 2008. I agree. |
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Re: Some WTC Thoughts.... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Aug 26 13:19:53 2008, in response to Re: Some WTC Thoughts...., posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Aug 26 12:42:06 2008. No, I bet even if a part on top fell, it wouldn't pancake like WTC..You bet wrong. And I was actually surprised to see that an airplane wing actually sliced through the WTC beams...At least I think some beams were sliced... Many beams were sliced, but that's not what caused the collapse. and I think WTC pancaked because thermite was placed inside...and evicence of thermite was found... If you lost credibilty with not understanding gravity and physics with the pancaking thing, then this is where you really lost all remaining crrdibility. |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Aug 26 13:21:23 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by Railman718 on Tue Aug 26 13:14:17 2008. Correction ..Still have to go to Work.. |
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Re: Some WTC Thoughts.... |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 26 13:22:29 2008, in response to Re: Some WTC Thoughts...., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 26 13:04:01 2008. It's the tinfoil that keeps the rational thought out, and the crazy crap in.
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 26 13:26:55 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Aug 26 13:14:06 2008. The devil just called...he said it's cold. |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 26 13:29:12 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by Railman718 on Tue Aug 26 13:21:23 2008. If you have to:Pay Bills + Eat + Enjoy Life then you Still have to go to Work |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Aug 26 13:31:12 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by R33/R36 Mainline on Tue Aug 26 13:13:41 2008. Hahahahahahahaha.Anyway, of course rationality wins over all this nonsense. All you questions answered HERE: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Aug 26 13:31:49 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by R33/R36 Mainline on Tue Aug 26 13:13:41 2008. What do two WWII tanks have to do with this? |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Aug 26 13:33:39 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by Railman718 on Tue Aug 26 13:14:17 2008. Sounds like a good attitude...the author of this thread, however, thinks that the country will have riots in all cities no matter what happens...all because there is a black person running for president... |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Aug 26 13:35:47 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 26 13:29:12 2008. Of coruse i meant go to work in my oringinal post.. |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Aug 26 13:39:16 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Aug 26 13:33:39 2008. What Luch or anybody else thinks(and he is my classmates from when we started) and what reality is different...We all see things from time to time from "different points of views"... I rather have somebody always express how they feel about things... Even if they or the views may be wrong... Have more respect for a person that way... Than somebody smiling in your face like an angel but that person is nothing but a devil.. |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Aug 26 13:39:24 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Aug 26 13:31:49 2008. The gas tanks were demolished in a controlled demolition in July 2001, as Keyspan was no longer using them, and it was time to get rid of them. The tanks weren't used since 1992 and 1997 respectively.The conspiracy lunatics try to somehow tie this in to the WTC collapse. |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 26 13:41:12 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by R33/R36 Mainline on Tue Aug 26 13:13:41 2008. If the goverment [sic] killed the people that say they blew up the WTC... then that would make it obious [sic] that they blew up the WTC.No they wouldn't. Nobody would notice or care that you died. |
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Re: Some WTC Thoughts.... |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 26 13:43:31 2008, in response to Re: Some WTC Thoughts...., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Aug 26 13:16:32 2008. There is no dispute that the ESB is the stronger building but I think that in this case it isn't strong enough. It might have remained standing longer. |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 26 13:49:06 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by R33/R36 Mainline on Tue Aug 26 13:13:41 2008. Welcome to the tin foil hat brigade. I am going to assume you mean 'explosions' when you say 'expodtiions'.Also can you expain all the "secondary expodtions" everybody was hearing? You think the only flammables and things that could explode in a building were on the plane? There are a number of properties of a failing building that will sound like explosions. Floors collapsing, walls collapsing, CRT monitors bursting... Also can you expain the the crackling noises and light flashes people saw just before the towers fell? If you watch a video of a buiding being domished, that exactly what you see. Even FDNY firefighters said there was bombs in the buildings. Crackling noises were the buildings structures failing. Light flashes were a combination of arcing power and reflections off broken glass. No firefighters reported that there were explosives in the building, however, they did speculate on the possibility that the planes may have carried additional explosives. Also can you expain why the windows in the lobby of the first tower was blown out? The fireball cound'nt have travel 86 stories down the evelator shaft, Because the shafts were air tight. The elevator shafts were compromised, the building structure was severely damaged. If I twist your hand, you feel it at your elbow; in a piece of steel, the flex at one end does affect the other. There is also a MAJOR difference in air pressure in tall buildings, which is why they all have revolving doors, or double doors. If you were to open both the inner and outer sets of doors of a skyscraper, you will feel a VERY strong breeze. Also can you expain in the weeks before 9/11 the weird and unsual dills? And certain sections were of the TT and building 7 were closed off for serctiy reasons? Also how come FEMA wasn't allowed to go in ground zero, when conrolled domititon was? I really have no idea what you're talking about here. Also can you expain why those two tanks in queens from the WWII era was blown up for no reason? You mean the old gas storage tanks in Greenpoint? They had a reason. The tanks were decrepit, and the safest way to take them down was with explosives. The WTC was bought down in a carefully planned domitition, wheather you want to belive so or not. Hard to believe someone who can't spell the words in his own twisted conspiricy. |
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Re: Some WTC Thoughts.... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Aug 26 13:54:24 2008, in response to Re: Some WTC Thoughts...., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 26 13:43:31 2008. Possibly. I don't really know for sure. Of course, the way the WTC was constructed, made the weight and gravity impact of the collapse when the upper part gave way much easuer for the pancake effect, but yes, there is no way to know for sure if the ESB would have not also collapsed. It is constructed completely differently. |
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Re: Some WTC Thoughts.... |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Aug 26 14:00:52 2008, in response to Re: Some WTC Thoughts...., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Aug 26 13:19:53 2008. Evidence of thermite WAS found...and there were videos of the molten steel before the collapse... |
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Re: Some WTC Thoughts.... |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 26 14:01:13 2008, in response to Re: Some WTC Thoughts...., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Aug 26 13:54:24 2008. Put a few hundred tons of weight on a floor not designed for it and you'll see similar action. With each additional floor that collapses, add its weight, plus the weight of what landed on it, plus the acceleration rate to find out the impact on the next floor below. Repeat.This will occur with ANY structure. The WTC had the added benefit of the primary support columns being damaged, and the floor stringers being compromised by heat over time. |
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Re: Some WTC Thoughts.... |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 26 14:05:21 2008, in response to Re: Some WTC Thoughts...., posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Aug 26 14:00:52 2008. Prove it. |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Aug 26 14:08:48 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 26 13:49:06 2008. What part of the skyscraper creates a strong breeze when you open the doors? Does it have to do with the air circulating? The hot air from below rising above? |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Aug 26 14:09:40 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Aug 26 12:32:57 2008. It's hard to say what would have happened with the reamining one.But we know a lot. People continued to walk down the staircases of the north tower after the collapse of the south tower, and exit to safety. Of course the damage would have been hundreds of millions, to say the least, but after the south tower had been hit and collapsed, the north tower was still in pretty good shape below its fire. If there hadn't been any fire in the upper floors of the north tower, how much more damage would it have sustained once the south tower collapsed? You didn't have the 7 WTC effect of fires being caused by another tower collapsing. |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Aug 26 14:10:45 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 26 12:33:17 2008. Simple...when the north tower would have failed, it would have severely damaged the foundation, so much that the south tower would have fallen too.Why on earth do you say that, when the actual collapse of the south tower didn't cause the north tower to collapse? |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Aug 26 14:13:58 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 26 13:49:06 2008. Trying to explain facts to conspiracy theorists is an exhausting and useless exercise. Better to stick to reminders that they need to be sure to put on their tin foil hats. |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 26 14:17:00 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Aug 26 14:08:48 2008. I can't answer that effectively; it has to do with the pressure differences inside and out, and the height of the building.This effect occurs with NO HVAC. |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Aug 26 14:23:03 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by Railman718 on Tue Aug 26 13:39:16 2008. True... However, many of his posts seem to have a racist ring to them...though he doesn't admit to being a racist...Maybe he really isn't, who knows...some people here think some of my posts show that I am an anti-semite, yet I am not, so I can relate to him with that... |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Aug 26 14:26:45 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 26 14:17:00 2008. I couldn't find any info on it...but I am guessing it has to do with different air temperatures within...Do you know the basics of what causes it?They should use such an effect to capture wind energy...when there is no wind... |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 26 14:29:16 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by Railman718 on Tue Aug 26 13:14:17 2008. Well, that's you. If everyone in the USA were like you, then things'd be hunky-dory, right?
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 26 14:29:58 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 26 13:29:12 2008. Unless you hit the lottery. |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 26 14:41:03 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 26 13:05:12 2008. Uh...explain how. Keep in mind why the terrorists wanted to use jets with full loads of fuel. It isn't the initial impact that is the problem...it is the fuel.Indian Point Generating Station was built to withstand an earthquake of 6.1 on the Richter scale. Are you sure that the plane's impact would have measured NO MORE THAN 6.1 on the Richter scale? |
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Re: What if Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 26 14:42:34 2008, in response to Re: What if Barack Loses in November?, posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 26 13:11:24 2008. Well...Indian Point can withstand a 6.1 (Richter) earthquake. |
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Re: When Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 26 14:48:47 2008, in response to Re: When Barack Loses in November?, posted by Train Dude on Mon Aug 25 19:13:40 2008. Or so you think...because all Obama needs are 20 or 21 states. What states do YOU think that voted for Kerry will vote for McCain? I can't find a single one...and Virginia and one of the three of Colorado, Indiana, or Ohio will also go blue...enough to send McCain to defeat.The states Kerry won and Ohio are also enough...and McCain doesn't give the state of Ohio what it really needs. |
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Re: When Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Aug 26 14:51:22 2008, in response to Re: When Barack Loses in November?, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 26 14:48:47 2008. one of the three of Colorado, Indiana, or Ohio will also go blueMaybe, maybe not. This looks like another close one. |
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Re: When Barack Loses in November? |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Aug 26 14:52:36 2008, in response to Re: When Barack Loses in November?, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 26 14:51:22 2008. However, Indiana and Virginia are very winnable...and those are 24 votes together. |
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Re: Some WTC Thoughts.... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Aug 26 15:00:44 2008, in response to Re: Some WTC Thoughts...., posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Aug 26 14:00:52 2008. Oh stop it. Read the Popular Mechanics article that was linked here. All your questions are answered...rationally.http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html |
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