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| Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists (1281894) | |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 09:34:55 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Apr 19 19:58:25 2015. I shouldn't have to preface my comments with this but I will anyway: I've made it quite clear about my feelings about gays and my long-time support for Gay Marriage (and marriage in general).That said, why is it so important for you to pretend that religious Judaism and scripture has nothing negative to say about homosexuality. What part of Leviticus 18:22 do you not understand: "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." Or Lev 20:13: "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." Now how do I reconcile this with my positive feelings toward Gays? Simple, I don't feel the need to reconcile my honestly held beliefs with scripture. Why do you? |
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| (1282046) | |
Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 09:38:54 2015, in response to Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Apr 19 14:09:26 2015. So how should Jews react? How long will Jews like you slavishly support people like the Democrat Party, filled with modern BDS Jew-haters (oh, excuse me, "Anti-Zionists") while spitting on people who support them because their motives aren't pure enough to suit you?Therein lies extinction. |
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| (1282052) | |
Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 09:53:12 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Apr 19 19:56:22 2015. You fail to see what is going on here. I dislike people who claim to have Israel's best interests at heart when they actually don't.Oh, you mean Obama. The only real difference between the fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Muslims is the latter are a bit more straightforward about their intentions. OK, so the latter would like to see Israel destroyed, and me, my children and other pigs and dogs dead. What do the fundamentalist Christians have in store for me? |
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| (1282053) | |
Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Apr 20 10:03:55 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 09:53:12 2015. What do the fundamentalist Christians have in store for me?Some of those who believe we are living in the End Times want a nuclear war between Israel and Iran as a prelude to the next coming of the Savior. I tend to believe WMATA is overemphasizing their numbers and their influence, but they are certainly there. |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 10:12:07 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by AlM on Mon Apr 20 10:03:55 2015. Some of those who believe we are living in the End Times want a nuclear war between Israel and Iran as a prelude to the next coming of the Savior.And you think WMATA believes they have the power to make that happen? |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Apr 20 10:22:08 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 10:12:07 2015. You might ask him. I think he fears their influence. |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Apr 20 10:57:20 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 09:38:54 2015. I beg to differ, as do many Jews and Israelis. |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Apr 20 10:58:48 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 20 06:35:44 2015. No. It isn't as black and white as you make it out to be. |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Apr 20 11:00:49 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by AlM on Mon Apr 20 10:22:08 2015. I certainly fear their influence on this board. And they have influence on other people (i.e. Congress) who really need to be resisting those people. |
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| (1282060) | |
Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Apr 20 11:02:51 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 09:34:55 2015. I understand both those verses quite well. Being homosexual is not a sin. If anything is in fact sinful, it is gay sex, not being gay (and there are plenty of people who have interpretations of those and other verses which conclude by saying gay sex isn't sinful, I won't get in to whether or not I think those explanations are valid). |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by Fred G on Mon Apr 20 11:05:39 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 09:34:55 2015. That book was written by foreigners :Pyour pal, Fred |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Mon Apr 20 11:22:38 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 09:38:54 2015. The problem is there are Jew-haters in both parties. On one side they are overt and the other they pretend to be friends of Israel. Both are equally dangerous |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 11:25:00 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Apr 20 11:02:51 2015. True, those verses talk about behavior, not belief (as it were).You wrote: The Bible is pretty clear that being homosexual is not a sin and of itself. It does? Where and how does it make it pretty clear? |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 11:27:24 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Apr 20 11:00:49 2015. On this board? Who on this board is promoting Armageddon?If "other people (i.e, Congress)" need to resist "those people," what do you think they would be doing differently right now? |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 11:28:21 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Apr 20 10:57:20 2015. Even Ha'aretz reads between Obama's lines. |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by bingbong on Mon Apr 20 11:29:47 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 11:27:24 2015. Anyone who supports the policies that could bring this about is. |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 11:31:11 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by mtk52983 on Mon Apr 20 11:22:38 2015. First you're begging the question by asking me to accept that every "friend of Israel" has an evil motive. Maybe some of them are being moved also by the Christian-killing parties around the Mideast.Equally dangerous? Should I fear beheading at the hands of evangelicals? |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 11:32:27 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by bingbong on Mon Apr 20 11:29:47 2015. Which policies specifically? |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 11:33:28 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Apr 20 10:58:48 2015. You're doing black and white. Anyone who reaches a hand out to Jews must be insincere, so better bite it. |
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| (1282073) | |
Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Apr 20 11:44:36 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists?, posted by chicagomotorman on Mon Apr 20 02:17:11 2015. No it wasn't. |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Mon Apr 20 11:50:39 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 11:25:00 2015. If you look at Leviticus 20:13 and 18:22 it talks of the actual act of sexual relations. If you are a homosexual but have not acted on it then you have not sinned |
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| (1282075) | |
Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Apr 20 11:55:40 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by mtk52983 on Mon Apr 20 11:50:39 2015. Exactly |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Apr 20 11:56:23 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 11:28:21 2015. Just because one group/person is deemed a threat doesn't mean that others aren't lurking out there. |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Mon Apr 20 12:05:15 2015, in response to Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Apr 19 14:09:26 2015. WMATA, I don't know if you have HBO, but Vice News did a story on this very thing! They interviewed the pastors, the believers of this. It's absolutely frightening. Evangelical Christians give more money to Israel than the Jewish Lobbies. |
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| (1282079) | |
Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Apr 20 12:46:39 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 11:33:28 2015. I agree. |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Apr 20 12:48:45 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Apr 19 19:58:25 2015. Can a person be thief and never steal anything?Can a person be a murderer and never kill anyone? |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists? |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Apr 20 12:50:11 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists?, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Apr 20 11:44:36 2015. You sure? |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Apr 20 12:51:10 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Apr 19 20:19:24 2015. There are no such people as palestinians. |
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| (1282083) | |
Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Apr 20 12:52:07 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Apr 20 12:51:10 2015. Call them whatever you want, they are using the same playbook. |
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| (1282084) | |
Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Apr 20 12:52:28 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 11:33:28 2015. Not necessarily. I think I've been pretty clear in what I believe. |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Apr 20 12:53:21 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Apr 20 12:52:07 2015. arab muslim nazis. |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Apr 20 12:53:43 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Apr 20 12:48:45 2015. You can want to steal something and not do it. You can want to kill someone and not do it. You can want to engage in gay sex and refrain from doing so (if that is what you think the Bible is telling you to do, there is a wide range of opinion about how to interpret the verses in Leviticus). |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Mon Apr 20 12:55:01 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Apr 20 12:48:45 2015. The answer to both of your questions is no, but neither is a good comparison. Homosexuality is not just the physical act of having sex with someone of the same gender, but also a mental attraction. If someone realizes that they are attracted sexually to someone of the same gender they are a homosexual even if they have not acted on that mental state |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 13:18:12 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by mtk52983 on Mon Apr 20 11:50:39 2015. True. I said as much myself. But that doesn't justify the statement: "The Bible is pretty clear that being homosexual is not a sin and of itself." The Bible makes no such thing "clear." That's playing with words. Silence does not signify assent.What the Bible does say makes "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" look like rampant license. |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 13:20:44 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Apr 20 11:56:23 2015. So Jews and Israel should reject open support from any Christian group? |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 13:21:46 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Apr 20 12:46:39 2015. You agree with me, or you agree we should Christian hands? |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 13:23:47 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Apr 20 12:53:43 2015. there is a wide range of opinion about how to interpret the verses in LeviticusOne of which is not its plain wording? I must say the most unattractive part of religious scholarship is the extent to which its adherents try to bend the words to their meaning, |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 13:26:51 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by mtk52983 on Mon Apr 20 12:55:01 2015. I don't think the bible ever uses any term like "homosexual" to describe a class of people; it describes behavior, and I'm not sure what you're trying to say. |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 13:28:18 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Apr 20 12:52:07 2015. So you feel Christians and Arabs are both after the physical destruction of Jews and Israel, but the Arabs are more honest about it? |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Apr 20 13:38:43 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 13:21:46 2015. I am agreeing with you that WMAT is as black and white as he's accusing Luch. |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Apr 20 13:40:32 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Apr 20 12:52:28 2015. To me you've made it clear that you don't trust any or most Christian Zionists. |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Apr 20 14:04:13 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 11:33:28 2015. Except for "Palestinians" when they do it, of course. |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Apr 20 14:05:22 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Apr 20 12:51:10 2015. Correct. "Palestinians" say so themselves, especially their leaders. |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Apr 20 20:01:24 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by Easy on Sun Apr 19 22:08:50 2015. What you call right wing and evangelical I call modern. Those are the churches that most young Protestants go to.You are confusing right-wing evangelical churches with the run-of-the-mill Pentecostal evangelical churches that attract a young and diverse crowd. Most of the latter are not into controversial issues over Israel and things like that. They may be into Rapture and End Times stuff but normally they do not inject divisive politics into it. |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Apr 20 20:32:22 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Apr 20 11:00:49 2015. Influence on Congress?? Their influence is pro Israel!! |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Apr 20 21:27:27 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by Fred G on Mon Apr 20 11:05:39 2015. That book was written by foreigners :PIndeed. Whatever happened to American Exceptionalism? |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Apr 20 21:29:46 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 13:20:44 2015. Did I say that? |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Apr 20 21:30:27 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Apr 20 13:40:32 2015. I'm skeptical of most of their true motives. |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Apr 20 21:31:06 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Apr 20 20:32:22 2015. True, but not entirely for the reasons you or I want them to be. |
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Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Apr 20 21:32:05 2015, in response to Re: Jews, Israel, and Christian Zionists, posted by SLRT on Mon Apr 20 13:18:12 2015. It is quite clear, I suggest you consult the Shulchan Aruch for further details. |
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