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Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 15 12:36:06 2014, in response to Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 22:30:43 2014. I can't help but notice that this isn't actually an argument.It ceertainly is, as you are the biggest freak show here. It's quite obvious as no one wants to take your nonsense or or even seriously. To indicate that your use of the term differs from the standard use. It's you that use it differently than standard. It's absolutely illegal here in the US (and any other country). YOU are the one using it differently. Good question. In fact that's a very good question. In fact, it's the question I've kept asking and you kept dodging. No one is dodging anything. The US law is on MY side. You are the ones that seem to think that non legal residents here should have special privilege over people that followed the process of law to immigrate here. But since you don't consider the US government legitimate, it isn[t worth perusing with you. I'm saying that taking something by force does not make you its legitimate owner, and that "let's fight for it" is bad policy in pretty much any situation. It most certainly does, as otherwise any nation on earth wouldn' t have levgal borders. But they do. For the sake of this example, we'll refer to a fairly arbitrary chunk of the east coast of North America as "Land." Any territory under the same government as that chunk is also part of "Land." But it doesn't work that way. here are different states, and different nations with real borders along that coast. Just because you think they are all illegitimate means nothing. Why not? Why, precisely, is the right to live in New York a birthright for you but something that has to be earned for everyone else? Because, the laww states I am an American Citizen, as were my parents. I am not a canadian citizen, so I don't have the right to live in Montreal without proper naturalization either, just as they can't live here without following the law. But Just because you think they are all illegitimate means nothing. Yes, a person of Mexican ancestry who earns US citizenship by jumping through the many hoops required to get special dispensation to live here is considered fully equal to a person of American ancestry who earns US citizenship by being born. The problem is that the accident of your ancestry determines whether the right to live in New York is a birthright or something that requires special permission. This is wrong. I've been trying to explain that to you, but it doesn't seem to be sinking in. Absolitely. I can't just move to Mexico either without following ht e laws of THEIR borders. But Just because you think they are all illegitimate means nothing. Some don't even have a naturalization process. We do. Some people are declared "natural born" citizens entitled to live here by birthright. Some people are required to earn the right to come here. The determination is made by birth lottery. This double standard is wrong, and you have failed to provide any argument to the contrary. Absolutely, and it's the same for any other country. But Just because you think they are all illegitimate means nothing. In practice, they can't. I know for a fact that I would never be able to meet the exacting standards for an American immigration visa and I doubt you would either. Yet millions do. This supposed imposible task. In practice, they can't. I know for a fact that I would never be able to meet the exacting standards for an American immigration visa and I doubt you would either. |
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| (1174161) | |
Re: Nilogic |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 15 12:44:09 2014, in response to Nilogic, posted by AlM on Tue Apr 15 08:50:17 2014. LOL!!! Nilogic is even more crazy than any of the other ones here. It's quite obvious by his numerous posts. |
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Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 15 12:45:46 2014, in response to Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 14 21:27:56 2014. or to allow the residents of those nations to come to ours to take advantage of the resources that are rightfully "theirs" anyway.No one has a right to our resources except people of our country, and that goes the same of any other nation's resources. |
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Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 15 12:48:21 2014, in response to Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad, posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 15 03:14:15 2014. If I travel to Hawaii, I'm in a different state. I've crossed an arbitrary political line of some sort. Why should that be different from any other?Your failure to understand the difference between a state border and an international border does not mean there's a huge difference. |
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| (1174166) | |
Re: Nilogic |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Apr 15 12:49:54 2014, in response to Re: Nilogic, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 15 12:44:09 2014. Ologic is fully comparable to Nilogic but harder to pin down because he has more experience in being cagy in what he says. Olog makes the same outrageous assumptions but doesn't document them as clearly. |
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Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 15 13:56:37 2014, in response to Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 15 12:24:37 2014. I'll park this question here then ... I'm busy this week doing some educational duties and thus don't have time for this place. What's the "freak" thing about? I'm curious ... |
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| (1174183) | |
Re: Nilogic |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 15 13:58:49 2014, in response to Re: Nilogic, posted by AlM on Tue Apr 15 12:49:54 2014. Excellent assessment. |
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| (1174184) | |
Re: I Want To Have A Beer With Selkirk |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Tue Apr 15 14:06:36 2014, in response to Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 15 13:56:37 2014. With all our disagreements, someday I would like to someday sit down, and have a beer with Selkirk. |
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Re: I Want To Have A Beer With Selkirk |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Apr 15 14:11:52 2014, in response to Re: I Want To Have A Beer With Selkirk, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Tue Apr 15 14:06:36 2014. amazing ! |
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Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 15 14:12:57 2014, in response to Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue Apr 15 06:23:07 2014. Figures, you would declare American English to be Objectively Correct™ |
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Re: I Want To Have A Beer With Selkirk |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 15 14:22:13 2014, in response to Re: I Want To Have A Beer With Selkirk, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Tue Apr 15 14:06:36 2014. Beer is bipartisan ... no matter WHAT your affiliations, it still wants to escape anyway. :)Yeah, be happy to show you how us REAL rednecks up here brew our own. DO you prefer ales, lagers or weisse? I'll put up a batch. |
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Re: I Want To Have A Beer With Selkirk |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 15 14:23:23 2014, in response to Re: I Want To Have A Beer With Selkirk, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Tue Apr 15 14:06:36 2014. Oh wait ... my bad, dog!Is YOUR name GP38/R42 Chris? Heh. |
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| (1174190) | |
Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 15 14:25:41 2014, in response to Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 15 12:36:06 2014. It's you that use it differently than standard.Then explain why the US counts as a country but the first nations don't. It's absolutely illegal here in the US (and any other country). The US law is on MY side. Non sequitur. I've explained repeatedly that what the law says is irrelevant to what the law should say. Either agree to defend every law ever passed or stop spewing this nonsense. You are the ones that seem to think that non legal residents here should have special privilege over people that followed the process of law to immigrate here. But since you don't consider the US government legitimate, it isn[t worth perusing with you.  It most certainly does... So you're saying that might makes right after all? But it doesn't work that way. here are different states, and different nations with real borders along that coast. Just because you think they are all illegitimate means nothing. None of this actually answers my question. My question, by the way, was this: For the sake of this example, we'll refer to a fairly arbitrary chunk of the east coast of North America as "Land." Any territory under the same government as that chunk is also part of "Land." Now answer it. Because, the laww states I am an American Citizen, as were my parents. I told you many times before— what the law says is not justification for the claim that it should say that. Explain why you should be entitled to automatic American citizenship that other people aren't, or shut up. Absolitely. I can't just move to Mexico either without following ht e laws of THEIR borders. So you agree that this is wrong? Absolutely, and it's the same for any other country. But Just because you think they are all illegitimate means nothing. Are you stupid or something? This is what, the tenth time you've drooled out this same non sequitur? Yet millions do. This supposed imposible task. Plenty of people win the lottery, but you wouldn't declare that an easy task and you certainly wouldn't make human rights dependent on it. In practice, they can't. I know for a fact that I would never be able to meet the exacting standards for an American immigration visa and I doubt you would either. So why should either of us get to live here for free? |
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| (1174193) | |
Re: Nilogic |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Apr 15 14:31:35 2014, in response to Nilogic, posted by AlM on Tue Apr 15 08:50:17 2014. I have to say that I don't necessarily disagree with Nilet's logic, IF there was some question as to Spider Pig's attitude towards (b). |
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Re: I Want To Have A Beer With Selkirk |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Tue Apr 15 14:33:16 2014, in response to Re: I Want To Have A Beer With Selkirk, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Apr 15 14:11:52 2014. What do you drink? |
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Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 15 14:33:24 2014, in response to Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 15 12:23:37 2014. To live in Canada or Mexica, yes. A United States Birth Certificate alone won't allow you to live in either of those countries either without proper naturalization.Non sequitur. Again. And you can't live in any other country without their proper documentation either. Non sequitur. Again. This is a really simple point. Exactly how dumb are you that you can't grasp it? It's not bigoted to explain US immigration law... It's also completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. No one is disagreeing on what the law does say. We're arguing over what the law should say. ...to an extremist that thinks the US government is illegitimate. I never said that, so you're either a liar or an idiot. Probably both. And what difference does that make. You argue that an idea is inherently illegitimate unless it already has widespread acceptance. In 1500, no country had democracy. Therefore, by your own argument, democracy is not legitimate. Answer the question of which country lets you just move in without documentation. I just explained why that question is irrelevant, but the point sailed right over your head. The United states, which you consider an illegitimate government is not a dictatorship. And no, we don't have closed borders. You just follow the procedure for entrance and naturalization if you chose, and you are in. If you're trying to convince me that you're simply too stupid to bother talking to, you're doing a very good job. Go back, read my argument, actually understand it this time, and stop spewing irrelevant gibberish. The US and every other country has a procedure to enter and live in their country. You can read the US's procedure or any other country's procedure (I am sure they are available online) to know how to do so. That's more than justification for someone who thinks the US (and every other government and their borders are illegitimate. It's not bigoted to follow the rule of law of the country you are a part of, and there is not inherent right to live wherever you want. OK, that's it. You have spewed this non sequitur one time too many. You now owe me a justification for slavery. Explain how slavery was justified, and explain why it wasn't bigoted. |
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Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 15 14:33:48 2014, in response to Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 14 18:56:24 2014. He dismissed the idea of racial equality. That's racist. |
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Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 15 14:34:14 2014, in response to Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue Apr 15 06:40:45 2014. *eyeroll* |
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Re: I Want To Have A Beer With Selkirk |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Tue Apr 15 14:34:34 2014, in response to Re: I Want To Have A Beer With Selkirk, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 15 14:22:13 2014. Heineken. You brew your own? |
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Re: Failed Logic |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 15 14:35:08 2014, in response to Nilogic, posted by AlM on Tue Apr 15 08:50:17 2014.
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Re: Nilogic |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 15 14:36:05 2014, in response to Re: Nilogic, posted by AlM on Tue Apr 15 12:49:54 2014. I've been extremely clear about what I believe. It's hardly my fault that the six-year-olds who populate OTChat aren't bright enough to understand it. |
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| (1174203) | |
Re: Nilogic |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Tue Apr 15 14:40:45 2014, in response to Nilogic, posted by AlM on Tue Apr 15 08:50:17 2014. I was looking forward to the responses to this subthread and I have been duly rewarded. This one is going to have a long shelf life. |
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Re: I Want To Have A Beer With Selkirk |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Apr 15 14:40:50 2014, in response to Re: I Want To Have A Beer With Selkirk, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Tue Apr 15 14:33:16 2014. coffeewater |
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Re: I Want To Have A Beer With Selkirk |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 15 14:41:16 2014, in response to Re: I Want To Have A Beer With Selkirk, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Tue Apr 15 14:34:34 2014. Yep ... ever wonder why I still like Jimmy Carter? It's because HE allowed us to brew beer without having to shoot revenoors. :)So a nice Pilsner it is ... without whatever Heineken does to induce headaches the next morning. I think a batch of Bearwhiz would be in order. Bearwhiz beer ... it's in the water. That's why it's yeller. Heh. |
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Re: I Want To Have A Beer With Selkirk |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Apr 15 14:42:00 2014, in response to Re: I Want To Have A Beer With Selkirk, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Tue Apr 15 14:06:36 2014. i want him to hit me up on SKYPE |
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Re: Nilogic |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Apr 15 14:42:52 2014, in response to Re: Nilogic, posted by AlM on Tue Apr 15 12:49:54 2014. No, Ologic is worse BECAUSE he's cagey in what he says. Then he can reinterpret past points any way that fits the bill. Nilet, at least, is very clear as to where he's coming from. I don't always agree with his assumptions or the elements of his foundation, but there hasn't been much question otherwise as to how he got his POV. |
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Re: I Want To Have A Beer With Selkirk |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 15 14:44:07 2014, in response to Re: I Want To Have A Beer With Selkirk, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Apr 15 14:42:00 2014. Yeah, I gotta get back to that project. Microsoft changed their server code again, have to do some rewrites. |
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Re: Nilogic |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 15 14:45:30 2014, in response to Re: Nilogic, posted by 3-9 on Tue Apr 15 14:42:52 2014. Personally, I find Ologic to be the easiest of all, even easier than Microsoft's dotNET. Ologic is simple: You're a commie antisemite, so there. Not much else to learn. :) |
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Re: Nilogic |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Apr 15 14:54:19 2014, in response to Re: Nilogic, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 15 14:45:30 2014. You forgot "socialist", "leftist", and "liberal". See, not that simple. :-) |
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Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 15 14:55:03 2014, in response to Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 15 12:13:56 2014. MY ancestry and your ancestry or anyone elses has nothing to do with it.Are you thick or something? You've screamed up and down that the law says your ancestry determines your citizenship and you don't need to provide any justification for that, and now you're claiming it's the exact opposite? You freak. Since you already consider the United States government illegitimate, as well as it's 50 states, you are an ultimate extremist and this conversation isn't worth perusing with you. You're clearly hysterical. Maybe you should take a nap and calm down a bit and then you'll be able to have a debate like a rational person. I already linked TWO sites on what you have to do to move to the United States... And I already explained that I never did any of those things and neither did you. You apparently didn't notice. ...but since you consider the US government legitimate, it isn't worth perusing further with you. They do not. ANY ancestry can become a citizen if they follow the process. The point is that there isn't "a" process, there are two processes— an easy one for people of the "right" ancestry and an extremely difficult one for people of the "wrong" ancestry. But since you consider the US government illegitimate, it isn't worth perusing with an extremist as yourself. You're the one who believes we should revive the Soviet Union and force everybody to live under a Stalinist dictatorship, so you're the real extremist. See how easy it is to spew random bullshit? But it is not, and you did not. So you're denying the obvious now? Simple question: Is US law non-bigoted by definition? Yes or no. And it doesn't, as any ancestry, or race can become a citizen of the US if they follow the process if they come from another country. Right. Anyone of any ancestry can become a citizen as long as it's US ancestry or they complete a nearly impossible process. Bob wants to be a US citizen. What is the process of law by which Bob becomes a US citizen? I already provided two links. Read them. From your links: There are three main ways of getting an immigrant visa: through a family member already in the United States, being sponsored by an employer, or through a lottery aimed at increasing diversity in the United States. Essentially, you need a visa. But Bob never applied for a visa and he never got a visa. His parents filled out a form, and Bob was declared a US citizen automatically. So clearly your links are wrong— or, rather, they don't tell the full story. How does Bob become a US citizen and why? |
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Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 15 14:56:09 2014, in response to Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 15 12:24:37 2014. Not a valid response. Do I need to bring out the CAPTCHA again? |
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Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 15 14:56:55 2014, in response to Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 15 12:45:46 2014. No one has a right to our resources except people of our country...The point is, they aren't "our" resources if we stole them. |
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Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 15 14:58:15 2014, in response to Re: Conservative Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 15 12:48:21 2014. Great, another Terrapin.No wonder you're having trouble following my argument— you take everything literally. |
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Re: I Want To Have A Beer With Selkirk |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Apr 15 14:59:50 2014, in response to Re: I Want To Have A Beer With Selkirk, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 15 14:44:07 2014. i am ready when you are lol : ) |
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Re: Nilogic |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 15 14:59:59 2014, in response to Re: Nilogic, posted by 3-9 on Tue Apr 15 14:31:35 2014. It's really not that hard to follow. "I agree with the verdict" generally means "I believe the verdict was correctly rendered based on the facts of the case?"Who here agrees with the OJ verdict? Or the Johannes Mehserle verdict? |
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Re: Nilogic |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 15 15:00:27 2014, in response to Re: Nilogic, posted by 3-9 on Tue Apr 15 14:42:52 2014. You can't find any examples of that. But you're not going to try anyhow, so you can make blanket statements and think you're right. |
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Re: Nilogic |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 15 15:00:55 2014, in response to Re: Nilogic, posted by 3-9 on Tue Apr 15 14:54:19 2014. What's sad is that both of you are defending "nilogic" by distraction. |
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Re: Liberal Jeb Bush Says Illegals Should Break The Law |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 15 15:02:25 2014, in response to Re: ''Conservative'' Jeb Bush Notices Racism Is Bad, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Apr 13 18:45:38 2014. That's not characteristic of big government. Lie busted. |
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Re: Nilogic |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 15 15:04:30 2014, in response to Re: Nilogic, posted by AlM on Tue Apr 15 12:49:54 2014. LOL, "cagey" = can't accept that you're wrong. It's people like you that are cagey when you try to pick it apart. |
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Re: Liberal Jeb Bush Says Illegals Should Break The Law |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 15 15:05:23 2014, in response to Re: Nilogic, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 15 13:58:49 2014. . . . but wrong notwithstanding. No facts on either of your sides. |
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Re: Nilogic |
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Posted by DAnD124 on Tue Apr 15 15:05:41 2014, in response to Re: Nilogic, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 15 15:00:27 2014. your refusal to say if South Africa is better off now or under Apartheid |
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Re: Liberal Jeb Bush Says Illegals Should Break The Law |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 15 15:05:57 2014, in response to Re: Nilogic, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 15 12:44:09 2014. They think you're speaking about only one other person, and not them. |
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Re: Olog Spews More Garbage |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 15 15:07:17 2014, in response to Re: Liberal Jeb Bush Says Illegals Should Break The Law, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 15 15:02:25 2014. Describe exactly what form of government you would endorse. In more detail than "small." |
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Re: Liberal Jeb Bush Says Illegals Should Break The Law |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 15 15:07:34 2014, in response to Re: Nilogic, posted by DAnD124 on Tue Apr 15 15:05:41 2014. You're lying again. I don't think communism is better than apartheid and I already said so. You, OTOH, openly declared that you believe South Africa is better off under communism than under apartheid. |
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Re: Liberal Jeb Bush Says Illegals Should Break The Law |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 15 15:10:52 2014, in response to Re: Olog Spews More Garbage, posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 15 15:07:17 2014. You're one dumb fuck, aintcha? This country had the biggest rescue forces in the world (never mind military) under far smaller government than we possess these days. What the blazes is wrong with you?Never mind what's gone wrong with FEMA and the fact that the cartoon is as inaccurate as blazes. Plenty of libs have gotten on FEMA's case over that, and rightly so. |
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Re: Liberal Jeb Bush Says Illegals Should Break The Law |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Apr 15 15:12:43 2014, in response to Re: Liberal Jeb Bush Says Illegals Should Break The Law, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 15 15:07:34 2014. Which means you believe South Africa is under communism? |
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Re: Olog Can't Answer Simple Question |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 15 15:12:47 2014, in response to Re: Liberal Jeb Bush Says Illegals Should Break The Law, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 15 15:10:52 2014. You haven't actually answered the question. Or even tried to address it in any way. I asked:Describe exactly what form of government you would endorse. In more detail than "small." This won't go away either, by the way. |
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Re: Liberal Jeb Bush Says Illegals Should Break The Law |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 15 15:16:58 2014, in response to Re: Olog Can't Answer Simple Question, posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 15 15:12:47 2014. Are you retarded? I already answered the question. Small federal government is just fine for the job and always has been. Not big, bloated, welfare-state government. |
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Re: Ologic |
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Posted by DAnD124 on Tue Apr 15 15:21:10 2014, in response to Re: Liberal Jeb Bush Says Illegals Should Break The Law, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 15 15:07:34 2014. waht communism? is South Africa better of now than is was under apartheid? it is a yes or a no question. |
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Re: Liberal Jeb Bush Says Illegals Should Break The Law |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 15 15:23:37 2014, in response to Re: Liberal Jeb Bush Says Illegals Should Break The Law, posted by 3-9 on Tue Apr 15 15:12:43 2014. It's got nothing to do with my belief.The South Africa Communist Party being in "tripartite alliance" with the African National Congress (who describes themselves as a "disciplined force of the left") and the Congress of South African Trade Unions (who have historically and contemporarily worked with the SACP) ought to show any unbiased observer that South Africa is being ruled by communism. |
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