Arizona Senate passes gay discrimination law

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Arizona Senate passes gay discrimination law
Posted by TonyG on Thu Feb 20 10:17:41 2014 fiogf49gjkf0d Source: http://www.azcentral.com/news/politics/free/20140219arizona-senate-oks-bill-boosting-service-refusal.html Arizona Senate OKs bill boosting service refusal Associated Press Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:12 PM The Arizona Senate on Wednesday passed a bill backed by Republicans that would expand the rights of people to assert their religious beliefs in refusing service to gays and others, a measure Democrats say would open the doors for discrimination and hurt the state economy. Democrats and civil-rights groups opposed the bill pushed by social conservatives, saying it would allow discriminatory actions by businesses. But the sponsor, Sen. Steve Yarbrough of Chandler, said his push for Senate Bill 1062 was prompted by a New Mexico case in which the state Supreme Court allowed a gay couple to sue a photographer who refused to take pictures of their wedding. He said he is protecting religious rights. “This bill is not about allowing discrimination,” Yarbrough said during a debate that stretched for nearly two hours. “This bill is about preventing discrimination against people who are clearly living out their faith.” The bill’s passage on a 17-13 party-line vote came just days after a similar House-approved bill in Kansas was squelched by Republicans and Democrats in that state’s Senate chamber following public outcry and opposition from groups including the Kansas Chamber of Commerce. Arizona Democrats sponsored eight hostile amendments in an effort to sidetrack the legislation here, but they were rejected by Republicans, who control the Senate. Democrats repeatedly said they believed Yarbrough’s legislation was designed to allow discrimination. “The heart of this bill would allow for discrimination versus gays and lesbians,” said Sen. Steve Gallardo, D-Phoenix. “You can’t argue the fact that bill will invite discrimination. That’s the point of this bill. It is.” Sen. Steve Farley, D-Tucson, warned of economic consequences if the Legislature passes the bill and it is signed by Republican Gov. Jan Brewer. He said companies will begin to avoid Arizona, as they did after the state passed its signature immigration-crackdown law, SB 1070, in 2010. “I think this bill makes a statement … that we don’t welcome people here,” Farley said. “This bill gets in the way. This bill sends the wrong message around the country and around the world.” A similar bill is making its way through the Arizona House and is set for floor debate this afternoon. It is expected to win approval from majority Republicans in that chamber, as well. The proposals are backed by the powerful Center for Arizona Policy, a social-conservative group that backs anti-abortion and conservative Christian legislation in the state. The bill is similar to a proposal last year brought by Yarbrough but vetoed by Brewer. That legislation would have allowed people or religious groups to sue if they believed they might be subject to a government regulation that infringed on their religious rights. Yarbrough stripped a provision from the new bill in hopes Brewer will embrace it. Civil-liberties and secular groups countered that Yarbrough and the Center for Arizona Policy had sought to minimize concerns that last year’s bill had far-reaching and hidden implications. During the Senate debate Wednesday, Democrats said the bill could allow people to break nearly any law and cite religious freedom as a defense. Yarbrough called those worries “unrealistic and unsupported hypotheticals” and said criminal laws will continue to be prosecuted by the courts. Senate President Andy Biggs, R-Gilbert, said the Democrats’ rhetoric was misplaced. “There are times … that sometimes, people’s rhetoric tends to inflame instead of explain,” Biggs said. “And I would suggest if there is going to be a backlash because of 1062, it won’t be because someone has read the content of this bill and recognizes that it is indeed tailored after Supreme Court cases dealing with First Amendment religious rights, it will because of the temperate and inaccurate rhetoric. That is my personal opinion.”
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Re: Arizona Senate passes gay "JIM CROW" law
Posted by Streetcarman1* on Thu Feb 20 10:24:23 2014, in response to Arizona Senate passes gay discrimination law, posted by TonyG on Thu Feb 20 10:17:41 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d Title corrected since there are similarities to the old Jim Crows laws.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes gay discrimination law
Posted by orange blossom special* on Thu Feb 20 11:59:37 2014, in response to Arizona Senate passes gay discrimination law, posted by TonyG on Thu Feb 20 10:17:41 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d I think the majority population of Arizona, whom don't speak English, are probably already doing this anyway. Nothing to see here, future democrats who we need their votes by executive order and no ID.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes gay discrimination law
Posted by Fred G* on Thu Feb 20 12:05:27 2014, in response to Arizona Senate passes gay discrimination law, posted by TonyG on Thu Feb 20 10:17:41 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d Kansas sensibly rejected a similar law. Wow cuz Arizona. 10/10 they get boycotted more. your pal, Fred
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Re: Arizona Senate passes gay discrimination law
Posted by TonyG* on Thu Feb 20 13:09:40 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes gay discrimination law, posted by Fred G on Thu Feb 20 12:05:27 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d I'm sure they will be boycotted more. I'm not convinced the governor is stupid enough to sign it though.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes gay discrimination law
Posted by Fred G* on Thu Feb 20 13:16:17 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes gay discrimination law, posted by TonyG on Thu Feb 20 13:09:40 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d It was the Kansas state senate who killed the bill the Kansas house passed. Once it gets to the grownups, it ceases to exist, it seems. your pal, Fred
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Re: Arizona Senate passes gay discrimination law
Posted by TonyG* on Thu Feb 20 13:18:14 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes gay discrimination law, posted by Fred G on Thu Feb 20 13:16:17 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d The governor listens intently to the Chamber of Commerce which is very opposed to this for obvious reasons. They were silent on SB1070 and realized their mistake.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes anti-religious-discrimination law
Posted by Olog-hai* on Thu Feb 20 13:20:28 2014, in response to Arizona Senate passes gay discrimination law, posted by TonyG on Thu Feb 20 10:17:41 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d You think it's OK for gays to bully people with certain religious beliefs?
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Re: Arizona Senate passes gay discrimination law
Posted by Fred G* on Thu Feb 20 13:26:49 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes gay discrimination law, posted by TonyG on Thu Feb 20 13:18:14 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d I think the CoC has buyer's remorse with the Tea Party and other Fundamentalist GOPers. your pal, Fred
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Re: Arizona Senate passes anti-religious-discrimination law
Posted by Fred G* on Thu Feb 20 13:30:41 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes anti-religious-discrimination law, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 20 13:20:28 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d If you call standing up for equal rights 'bullying' then yes. you think it's ok to use religion to discriminate against groups of people? your pal, Fred
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Reverse Discrimination? (Re: Arizona Senate passes gay discrimination law)
Posted by Mitch45* on Thu Feb 20 14:30:31 2014, in response to Arizona Senate passes gay discrimination law, posted by TonyG on Thu Feb 20 10:17:41 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d Isn't it possible that gay rights laws might give rise to reverse discrimination, i.e., prosecuting someone because that person did not accomodate a gay person for any reason? There is precedent for this. Remember the Bakke case in the 1970's?
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Re: Arizona Senate passes "Turn Away The Gays" law
Posted by JayZeeBMT* on Thu Feb 20 15:12:26 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes anti-religious-discrimination law, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 20 13:20:28 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d Title corrected. You think it's OK for people to force their religious beliefs on gays and lesbians, by refusing goods and/or services? By the way, this bill, if signed into law, would also make it perfectly legal for a Muslim businessperson to refuse goods and/or services to a Christian customer on religious grounds. Is that OK with you, too?
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by mtk52983* on Thu Feb 20 15:24:25 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes "Turn Away The Gays" law, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Feb 20 15:12:26 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d The law is incredibly stupid because 1) The 14th Amendment does not apply to private individuals and 2) Existing law does not extend to LGBT's the same protections as gender, religion, etc. In theory if an LGBT person sued a cake decorating company for failing to provide a cake for his/her/its wedding and the state has not enacted something similar to ENDA (but extended to all transactions) the lawsuit should not survive a Motion to Dismiss
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by JayZeeBMT* on Thu Feb 20 15:42:33 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by mtk52983 on Thu Feb 20 15:24:25 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d "His/her/its"??? The main problems with this hate-based legislation are: It introduces religion into state law for the express purpose of denying a class of people the ability to engage in commerce--Tennessee's version of the law is even more explicit--that bill specifically singles out gays and lesbians as the class of people to be refused goods or services. Creates a second-class tier of citizenship, as a matter of statute, for gays and lesbians, contrary to all of the principles found in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution. Encourages and justifies bigotry as a matter of state law. Anyone can claim a "sincerely held religious belief" to deny gays and lesbians anything. What is the standard of proof? Because a defendant does not bear the burden of proof, their mere statement of religious belief will be sufficient to afford them protection from lawsuits. Think about how severe this could get. An airline could claim, for example, that their headquarters are in Phoenix, and their CEO devoutly believes that gays and lesbians are abominable. The airline could then legally refuse transportation to s gay or lesbian passenger anywhere on its network. Hotels could refuse lodging to gay or lesbian couples. A "known" gay man might be prohibited from buying groceries at the only supermarket in town, and so on... PS, I know people will scream about Godwin's law, but it IS an historical FACT that excluding Jews from commerce was one of the first things the Nazi government in prewar Germany did, in the years leading up to the Holocaust...just something to ponder.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by LuchAAA* on Thu Feb 20 18:49:32 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Feb 20 15:42:33 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d Ok. I want you to write an article titled, "What are white people afraid of"? It will be about white people and our obsession with guns and why so many of us want to arm up and suggest we're pussies afraid of every thing from commies invading to blacks walking down the street.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by SelkirkTMO* on Thu Feb 20 18:53:07 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 20 18:49:32 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d He's not a plagiar. :) Here ya go ... already been done:
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by JayZeeBMT* on Thu Feb 20 19:58:33 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 20 18:49:32 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d Michael Dunn articulates the fearful culture of white male victimhood very well.
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UPDATE: Both Houses of Arizona Legislature approve "Turn Away The Gays Bill"
Posted by TonyG* on Thu Feb 20 21:19:23 2014, in response to Arizona Senate passes gay discrimination law, posted by TonyG on Thu Feb 20 10:17:41 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d The only thing stopping this atrocity from becoming law now is the governor. If she signs it, and all indications are that she will, I'm going to move.
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Re: UPDATE: Both Houses of Arizona Legislature approve ''Turn Away The Gays Bill''
Posted by JayZeeBMT* on Thu Feb 20 21:30:00 2014, in response to UPDATE: Both Houses of Arizona Legislature approve "Turn Away The Gays Bill", posted by TonyG on Thu Feb 20 21:19:23 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d Unfortunately, I fully expected this.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by LuchAAA* on Thu Feb 20 21:46:27 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Feb 20 19:58:33 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d You have a very warped view of the world.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by JayZeeBMT* on Thu Feb 20 22:00:47 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 20 21:46:27 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d Really? In what sane world can someone fire a gun, in a crowded gas station, at a car full of unarmed teenagers, while the car is fleeing from the gunfire, yet the shooter actually calls himself the "victim"? Now that's "warped".
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by LuchAAA* on Thu Feb 20 22:04:52 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Feb 20 22:00:47 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d I know he's warped. This case sweeps under the rug the fact that blacks and Latinos are behind far more violence here in Florida than any other group. Look at the Fair in Tampa. Blacks have been going to cause trouble for years, and no one addressed the issue until one of the troublemakers got hit by a car after being kicked out of the Fair.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by LuchAAA* on Thu Feb 20 22:04:55 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Feb 20 22:00:47 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d I know he's warped. This case sweeps under the rug the fact that blacks and Latinos are behind far more violence here in Florida than any other group. Look at the Fair in Tampa. Blacks have been going to cause trouble for years, and no one addressed the issue until one of the troublemakers got hit by a car after being kicked out of the Fair.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by JayZeeBMT* on Thu Feb 20 22:24:54 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 20 22:04:52 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d blacks and Latinos are behind far more violence here in Florida than any other group. Really? Let's look at the FACTS...according to the Florida Division of Law Enforcement (FDLE), the figures in 2012 by race were: MURDER White 344 Black 362 FORCIBLE SEX OFFENSES White 1,729 Black 968 ROBBERY White 3,511 Black 4,769 AGGRAVATED ASSAULT White 16,544 Black 13,320 MANSLAUGHTER White 86 Black 20 KIDNAP/ABDUCTION White 582 Black 306 ARSON White 236 Black 114 SIMPLE ASSAULT White 54,545 Black 26,651 Hmmm...what was that you were lying, Luch?
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by LuchAAA* on Fri Feb 21 01:19:13 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Feb 20 22:24:54 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d Where is Latino? How can you not have Latino on there? Weird. That said, living here, I see far more minorities committing violent crimes than whites.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by gp38/r42 chris* on Fri Feb 21 06:58:10 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Feb 20 22:24:54 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d Dude.....Blacks are out numbered 6 to 1 by whites.....yet account for more than Half the .murder....sex offense...kidnapping....arson....and assault. You are disproving your statements with your own stats!!!
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by gp38/r42 chris* on Fri Feb 21 07:00:43 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Feb 21 01:19:13 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d Because they are. Whites outnumber Blacks 5 or 6 to 1. Yet blacks commitORE than HALF the crime!!! His stats show a Black problem worse than I even expected. He doesn't even realize how BAD those stats are for his misstatements.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by gp38/r42 chris* on Fri Feb 21 07:04:06 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 20 22:04:55 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d Yup. For whites to commit the same amount of crime as blacks .....whites would have to commit almost 3 times the amount of crime they do just to equal the crime blacks do!!! Thisis according to the stats Jayzee pposted himself. That's sobering.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel* on Fri Feb 21 07:58:03 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Feb 21 06:58:10 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d Blacks are out numbered 6 to 1 by whites.....yet account for more than Half the .murder....sex offense...kidnapping....arson....and assault arrests. Fixed to include an important missing word. This one's interesting: DUI White 39,951 Black 4,554
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by AlM* on Fri Feb 21 08:14:03 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Fri Feb 21 07:58:03 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d Ah, interesting word to omit.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by AlM* on Fri Feb 21 08:19:16 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Feb 21 07:00:43 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d Yet blacks commitORE than HALF the crime!!! Proof? A disproprtionate amount of crime, yes. More than half the arrests, maybe. But more than half the crime is a pretty outrageous statement unless you actually have a law enforcement source for your claim.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris* on Fri Feb 21 08:40:16 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Fri Feb 21 07:58:03 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d Sorry was on cell phone, didn't notice that first time around. That's the only one. But that brings up an interesting phenomena too. I don't now how it's in florida, but on Long Island, unfortunately Blacks are usually lower income, and less likely to own a car and drive, so they often use bikes and Public Transportation (Bus, taxi). So that could account for at least part of the disparity. Again, that is true on Long Island, I don't claim to know if that is the same in Florida.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by AlM* on Fri Feb 21 08:46:50 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 21 08:40:16 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d Blacks are usually lower income And lower income people commit more crimes. That's not a secret.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris* on Fri Feb 21 08:48:47 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by AlM on Fri Feb 21 08:14:03 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d Interesting you comment on this, but don't comment when JayZee posted false information.....and forgot to include the "important" fact, that whites make up 78.3% of the popularion of Florida, and Blacks make up 16.6%. That means Blacks are OUTNUMBERED about 5 to 1, yet Blacks account for about 1/2 the crime. (DUI not withstanding, but I did offer a possibility of why that may exist). So this means you are about just as likely to be a victim of a crime by a Black person, yet there are 5 whites for every black!! And JayZee thinks these stats he posted HELP his position?
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by AlM* on Fri Feb 21 08:50:59 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 21 08:48:47 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d Blacks account for about 1/2 the crime I don't disbelieve you but without a credible source your statement has no value. And arrests don't count. Low income people are disproportionately arrested.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris* on Fri Feb 21 08:51:12 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by AlM on Fri Feb 21 08:46:50 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d Of course. But I explained why it's possible that DUI arrests were the only outlander in the stats. Blacks are less likely to drive in general as they are poorer, and more apt to not own a car. But you can't have it both ways. You can't say "Whites commit more crimes than Blacks", but forget to mention that Whites outnumber Blacks 5 to 1 in Florida, yet commit more than half the crime!!! FLorida Democraphics: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/12000.html
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris* on Fri Feb 21 08:54:41 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by AlM on Fri Feb 21 08:50:59 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d I am going by JayZee's OWN fcts posted. I didn't verify HIS facts. If he wants to use them to try and push a false point, and you do not say anything to him about using said facts, I can use the SAME facts to show how he's wrong. Furthermore, we established that Blacks probably drive less than whites. Yet whites ARE arrested for DUI, so it shows they DO IN FACT arrest whites for crimes they are more likely to commit to, so again, you can't have it both ways. The DUI number stats RIPTA posted show that Whites are indeed arrested when they commit crimes.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by AlM* on Fri Feb 21 08:55:18 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 21 08:51:12 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d You can't say "Whites commit more crimes than Blacks", but forget to mention that Whites outnumber Blacks 5 to 1 in Florida, yet commit more than half the crime!!! Agreed. But you said "Blacks commit more crimes than whites" and have yet to provide the slightest evidence.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris* on Fri Feb 21 08:56:51 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by AlM on Fri Feb 21 08:19:16 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d JayZee posted the stats. I used the exact stats HE used. Most of the crimes HE posted show a more than half amount for Blacks vs whites. As for demographics to prove that Whites do outnumber Blacks 5 to 1, here they are: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/12000.html
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by AlM* on Fri Feb 21 09:04:58 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 21 08:54:41 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d I am going by JayZee's OWN fcts posted. No. His facts didn't say whether those were arrests or convictions (RIPTA says arrests) and also show that blacks account less than half the crimes. Yes, I know they commit a disproportionate number, but that's not what you said.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris* on Fri Feb 21 09:06:20 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by AlM on Fri Feb 21 08:55:18 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d JayZee claimed Whites commit more crime than Blacks (which is true, even if he conveniently omits that Blacks are outnumbered 5 to 1 by Whites), yet that is "okay"? Furthermore, it was also shown by RIPTA that whites are arrested for crimes they overwhelmingly commit, DUI being the example. So you can not say that whites aren't arrsted when they commit crimes, as that stat alone shows they are. (Again, omitting the fact that whites in general own cars/drive more often than Blacks).
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by AlM* on Fri Feb 21 09:07:25 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 21 09:06:20 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d None of this changes that you have provided no evidence for your statement.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris* on Fri Feb 21 09:08:14 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by AlM on Fri Feb 21 09:04:58 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d The two stats are not mutually exclusive. You can not claim to say that Whites are convicted of more crimes than blacks, showing stats that show Blacks committing over half the crime whites do, yet CONVENIENTLY omitting that Blacks are outnumbered by whites 5 to 1.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris* on Fri Feb 21 09:10:53 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by AlM on Fri Feb 21 09:07:25 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d Excuse me? I am using the exact same stats JayZee used. I also provided stats showing that whites are at 78.3% and Blacks are 16.6%. Jay Zees own stats show that just over half the numbers are by Blacks, yet there are FIVE times more whites than blacks. I am using the exact same facts as he is, just adding his CONVENIENTLY omitted fact of demographics.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by mtk52983* on Fri Feb 21 09:42:46 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by AlM on Fri Feb 21 09:07:25 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d Had he said blacks commit more crimes per capita it would be correct. While I understood what he was getting at based on his other posts the thought was technically incomplete, and thus incorrect, versus what he meant to say
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by mtk52983* on Fri Feb 21 09:46:53 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 21 09:08:14 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d More arrests per capita not more arrests in terms of raw numbers And let's not confuse arrests with actual crimes because an arrest does not guarantee a conviction (and you are still innocent until proven guilty) and many crimes do not lead to an arrest (for a number of reasons from the perpetrator not found to the police talking the person out of having the other person arrested)
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by Fred G* on Fri Feb 21 09:47:56 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 21 09:08:14 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d Until anyone produces a statistic for CONVICTIONS, we can't really talk about who commits how many crimes. People get ARRESTED for stuff they didn't do all the time. your pal, Fred
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by AlM* on Fri Feb 21 09:50:10 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by AlM on Fri Feb 21 09:07:25 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d Jay Zees own stats show that just over half the numbers are by Blacks No, look again, it doesn't say that. It also doesn't say whether those are convictions or arrests.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by AlM* on Fri Feb 21 09:50:38 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by mtk52983 on Fri Feb 21 09:42:46 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d He meant total, not per capita.
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Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris* on Fri Feb 21 09:54:45 2014, in response to Re: Arizona Senate passes ''Turn Away The Gays'' law, posted by Fred G on Fri Feb 21 09:47:56 2014.* fiogf49gjkf0d Of course, but if I can't use the stats, how come JayZee can use the same stats, and no one comments on THAT? I pointed out how his statement is false, based on his own facts, especially considering the fact he CONVENIENTLY omitted, the Democraphics of 5 to 1 whites to blacks. But how I get jumped on using the SAME stats, yet you didn't say a word when JayZee used the SAME stats?
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