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The B110 has a website |
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Posted by Q101 E. MIDTOWN 2 AV on Tue Nov 9 01:58:38 2010 I got bored and typed around to find any unorthodox photo or info on the bus companies in NYC and I came across this.Boro Park-Williamburg Bus |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by MCI GUY on Tue Nov 9 07:52:43 2010, in response to The B110 has a website, posted by Q101 E. MIDTOWN 2 AV on Tue Nov 9 01:58:38 2010. definitely not unorthodox. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by BusMgr on Tue Nov 9 14:59:13 2010, in response to The B110 has a website, posted by Q101 E. MIDTOWN 2 AV on Tue Nov 9 01:58:38 2010. Of interest is the bottom of the schedule where the company specifies various rules, the very first such "rule" being:When boarding a crowded bus with standing room only, women should be allowed to board first. Two things here. First, "rules" are typically mandatory, yet this "rule" is written with the word "should" rather than "must" and therefore the "rule" might only be advisory (the same is true with the second "rule" as well). If that's the case, perhaps the word "rule" should not be used and the advisory read, "When boarding a crowded bus with standing room only, please allow women to board first." Second, if this is a mandatory rule then it most certainly violates the company's franchise and probably New York State that prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex in the provision of public transportation services. Even if the statement is a mere advisory it likely remains problematic (if, e.g., the driver or other passengers take it upon themselves to enforce the "rule") if not outright violative per se. Best to not to print anything on the timetable. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by JAzumah on Tue Nov 9 19:06:09 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by BusMgr on Tue Nov 9 14:59:13 2010. I noticed that immediately. However, no one is going to follow up on that. The buses had curtains until 3-4 years ago. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Tue Nov 9 20:12:54 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by BusMgr on Tue Nov 9 14:59:13 2010. What's even more interesting are the guidelines printed in Yiddish:לויטן פסק פון די רבנים שליט"א, זאלן זיך די מענער קאנצעטרירן אין די פאדערשטע זיצן פון דיGoogle Translate translates this as follows: By decision of the rabbis shlit"a should the men concentrating in the understand sitting of the first half bass, and the women in the second half. In any Pal is not accepted that men should stand in the second half bass, among the women or that women should stand between the men in the understood part of the bass.I'm not sure if this is an accurate translation (I'm sure it's not 100% accurate), but it does suggest that gender separation is practiced. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by Dekatyou on Tue Nov 9 20:44:48 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by R36 #9346 on Tue Nov 9 20:12:54 2010. I several times rode Monsey Trails (Jewish-owned bus running between NYC and Monsey, NY), Jewish people sat the seat separately. Women were sitting driver-side. Men were sitting door-side until full packed.I think that is "Jewish" issue. (Just like as Islamic women issue.) It is rare for non-Jewish people to use B110. On the other hand, NYAS does not put this issue because it is "widely used by non-Jewish." |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by JAzumah on Tue Nov 9 21:36:56 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by R36 #9346 on Tue Nov 9 20:12:54 2010. Uh oh...and why in Hebrew, Private Transportation? That could get them in quite a bit of trouble on more than one level. Technically, this would make them ineligible for a franchise. I could see a number of groups that would be very upset with this. The manure hit the fan upstate when certain state subsidized runs had curtains on them. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by Hart Bus on Tue Nov 9 21:57:59 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by R36 #9346 on Tue Nov 9 20:12:54 2010. As has been discussed in the past, it is only a suggestion and not law. If you are a man and sit in the "female" section, the driver cannot do anything. A male passenger will explain the custom and ask you to move.You can say no. Any woman sitting next to you will get up and move the back of the bus or stand. That is their privilege. Personal Opinion - They cannot force you to do anything since it is a franchised route. I guess these people never heard of Rosa Parks. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by Dekatyou on Tue Nov 9 22:36:41 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by Hart Bus on Tue Nov 9 21:57:59 2010. For Monsey Trail case, I never request to move. I just ask driver why sitting separate.To tell the truth, there are more men passengers than female and some male passengers sat "women-side" due to "full" of men side seats. It is "gray" because their religious custom request separate, but law does not allow such regulation. (I am wondering How about Israeli buses? In Israel, men and are women sitting separate?) |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by Q101 E. MIDTOWN 2 AV on Tue Nov 9 22:40:45 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by Dekatyou on Tue Nov 9 22:36:41 2010. Really? Cuz often when I'm on the B110, I see more women and children than men and adolescent boys. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Nov 10 01:34:18 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by JAzumah on Tue Nov 9 21:36:56 2010. Even though they use the same set of characters, Yiddish is different from Hebrew. It's kinda like how German is different from English, which, with the exception of ß and a few diacritics, uses the same character set English uses. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Nov 10 01:58:29 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by Dekatyou on Tue Nov 9 22:36:41 2010. I am wondering How about Israeli buses? In Israel, are men and women sitting separately?In Israel there are a few buses, serving ultra-orthodox Jewish neighborhoods of Jerusalem, which are segregated by sex, with one sex sitting in the front and the other sitting in the back of the bus. See this article. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by JAzumah on Wed Nov 10 03:38:04 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Nov 10 01:34:18 2010. So like Old English and English. However, I thought that Yiddish was spoken mostly now and not written down as much. I guess I was wrong. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Wed Nov 10 05:23:17 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by R36 #9346 on Tue Nov 9 20:12:54 2010. >>>>I'm not sure if this is an accurate translation<<<<<Unless they are riding around on a fish, you are correct |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Wed Nov 10 05:24:59 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by R36 #9346 on Tue Nov 9 20:12:54 2010. >>>>I'm not sure if this is an accurate translation<<<<<Unless they are riding around on a fish, you are correct |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Nov 10 06:00:00 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by Dekatyou on Tue Nov 9 22:36:41 2010. There are several "mehadrin" lines, both on intracity and intercity routes in Israel, where seating is supposedly separate. I don't ride the mehadrin lines within Jerusalem, they don't go places I generally go. I have been on one such intercity route (Jerusalem to Tzfat) but the bus was quite empty, and while men and women who were traveling together sat separately, there was no men's section or women's section and I think some less observant travelers of the opposite sex sat together.My understanding is that at a legal level, the separation of the sexes on these routes is not codified into law but since most or all of the passengers wish to abide by this system, there are rarely issues. There was a proposal to codify this system into law on the routes where it is practiced in the parliament last year that (fortunately) did not pass. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Nov 10 10:05:24 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by Hart Bus on Tue Nov 9 21:57:59 2010. I guess these people never heard of Rosa Parks.Except in this case it's the customers who want the policy in place. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 10 10:07:57 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Nov 10 10:05:24 2010. LOL |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Nov 10 10:08:25 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by JAzumah on Tue Nov 9 21:36:56 2010. Uh oh...and why in [Yiddish], Private Transportation?For the same reason that the MTA and most other transit agencies print instructions in multiple languages, to communicate with its customers. The manure hit the fan upstate when certain state subsidized runs had curtains on them. The B110 isn't subsidized. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 10 10:08:52 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by BusMgr on Tue Nov 9 14:59:13 2010. Of interest is the bottom of the schedule where the company specifies various rules, the very first such "rule" being: Incorrect, those are not listed as 'rules'. Take Pride,
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Nov 10 10:53:34 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 10 10:08:52 2010. Incorrect, those are not listed as 'rules'.It does say "rules," albeit under the heading of "guidelines." |
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| (212685) | |
Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by JAzumah on Wed Nov 10 11:21:24 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Nov 10 10:08:25 2010. It has a city franchise for public bus service, which must be open door. They are not allowed to tell people where to sit. That would be the violation. It is something that could be used against them in the future. |
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| (212686) | |
Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Nov 10 11:59:43 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by JAzumah on Wed Nov 10 11:21:24 2010. It has a city franchise for public bus service, which must be open door. They are not allowed to tell people where to sit. That would be the violation. It is something that could be used against them in the future.Not sure what you mean by "open door." To me that means boarding and alighting passengers at designated stops, which is exactly what the B110 does. They don't tell people where to sit. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by JAzumah on Wed Nov 10 12:08:51 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Nov 10 11:59:43 2010. A Jewish bus company got in trouble upstate in the 1990s because the seating custom (with the sheets) was found to be discriminatory in its access. They almost lost their subsidy for that. The idea is that this convention discourages members of the general public from riding the service. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Nov 10 12:51:45 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by JAzumah on Wed Nov 10 12:08:51 2010. A Jewish bus company got in trouble upstate in the 1990s because the seating custom (with the sheets) was found to be discriminatory in its access. They almost lost their subsidy for that. The idea is that this convention discourages members of the general public from riding the service.Irrelevant, since the B110 operates without a subsidy. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by BusMgr on Wed Nov 10 13:09:12 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Nov 10 10:05:24 2010. The same was true in the south as well. For the most part, bus companies did not really care how passengers were seated (as all money is green). Greyhound operated non-segregated service in the north and segregated service in the south only because that was what the "customers want[ed] . . . in place." |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by BusMgr on Wed Nov 10 13:13:41 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Nov 10 12:51:45 2010. While people may, in general, exercise their right to discriminate against others on the basis of religion and other "protected" classifications, such rights of people to discriminate on these bases have been limited in some circumstances. For example, the right to discriminate in the areas of housing and employment is severely restricted, with landlords and employers generally being prevented from practicing such discrimination. Such also typically applies to innkeepers and common carriers, regardless if there exists a public subsidy or not. Private Transportation is a common carrier and therefore has non-discriminatory obligations. Were Private Transportation to be other than a common carrier it might then have the right to discriminate on the basis of religion and/or sex. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by JAzumah on Wed Nov 10 14:12:16 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Nov 10 12:51:45 2010. Irrelevant, since the B110 operates without a subsidy.Relevant, because it is a bus line. The rules are dictated by the authority one operates under, not whether a subsidy is involved. The upstate bus service and the B110 are both bus lines. By comparison, Darkanu is a hybrid that could go either way. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by Gold_12th on Wed Nov 10 15:09:57 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 10 10:08:52 2010. you really that blind |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Nov 10 15:51:11 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by JAzumah on Wed Nov 10 14:12:16 2010. Relevant, because it is a bus line. The rules are dictated by the authority one operates under, not whether a subsidy is involved. The upstate bus service and the B110 are both bus lines.OK, so the upstate bus line "almost lost their subsidy." What's Private losing again? |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Nov 10 15:55:09 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by BusMgr on Wed Nov 10 13:13:41 2010. Private Transportation is a common carrier and therefore has non-discriminatory obligations. Were Private Transportation to be other than a common carrier it might then have the right to discriminate on the basis of religion and/or sex.And if Private Transportation discriminated on the basis of religion and/or sex then someone might have reason to complain. They don't. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Nov 10 16:05:35 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by BusMgr on Wed Nov 10 13:09:12 2010. The same was true in the south as well. For the most part, bus companies did not really care how passengers were seated (as all money is green). Greyhound operated non-segregated service in the north and segregated service in the south only because that was what the "customers want[ed] . . . in place."So you're saying southern Blacks preferred the back of the bus? :O |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by Nyctransitman on Wed Nov 10 20:10:22 2010, in response to The B110 has a website, posted by Q101 E. MIDTOWN 2 AV on Tue Nov 9 01:58:38 2010. I remember being in Borough Park one day many years ago ( back in the eighties) and there were vans shuttling passengers to Crown Heights, Bed-Stuy and Williamsburg. I took the van from Borough Park to Nostrand Avenue/Fulton Street to catch the "A" Line back to Queens. I don't remember the price of the van service but it was much quicker than my commute to Borough Park in which I took the "A" Line from Queens to West 4th Street and then transferred to the "B" Line at the time. Do these van services between Borough Park, Crown Heights/Bed Stuy and Williamsburg still operate? |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by Q101 E. MIDTOWN 2 AV on Wed Nov 10 20:40:02 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by Nyctransitman on Wed Nov 10 20:10:22 2010. To my knowledge, there's only the ones linking Crown Heights and Bensonhurst to Boro Park, and the Crown Heights line run only once every 60-90 minutes. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Nov 10 22:25:44 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by JAzumah on Wed Nov 10 03:38:04 2010. I thought Yiddish was dying out all together |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Nov 10 22:31:49 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Nov 10 06:00:00 2010. It's important to stress, however, that the vast majority of services in Israel are not segregated |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Nov 10 22:54:31 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Nov 10 10:08:25 2010. For the same reason that the MTA and most other transit agencies print instructions in multiple languages, to communicate with its customers.In the case of the MTA and other transit agencies, what they print in foreign languages is more or less identical to what they print in English. In the case of Private Transportation and the B110, what's printed in Yiddish is different from what's printed in English! Let's run through those Yiddish bullet points again. This is my interpretation of the translation Google Translate gave me of the Yiddish. • Under rabbinical decision, it is understood that men are to ride in the first half of the bus, and women ride in the second half. Under no circumstance are men permitted to ride standing among the women, or vice versa. • When the first part of the bus is filled with men, women are not permitted to pass through this part of the bus to look for seats. In this case, women will be permitted to board through the rear door after paying their fare. The rest are printed in English, and therefore are not repeated in this post. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Nov 10 23:01:24 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Nov 10 16:05:35 2010. Not really. It's more like southern blacks and southern whites didn't want to sit in the same part of the bus. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 10 23:37:58 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Nov 10 15:51:11 2010. Nice. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 10 23:42:38 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Nov 10 22:25:44 2010. Well you're clueless, but we knew that. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 10 23:44:41 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Nov 10 10:53:34 2010. Which makes the rules only guidelines. So they are not rules. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by JAzumah on Thu Nov 11 00:35:00 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Nov 10 22:54:31 2010. BINGO! |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Nov 11 06:42:05 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by JAzumah on Thu Nov 11 00:35:00 2010. Nope. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Nov 11 08:32:14 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Nov 10 22:54:31 2010. In the case of the MTA and other transit agencies, what they print in foreign languages is more or less identical to what they print in English.In the case of the B110, the guideline doesn't apply to anyone who doesn't understand it. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Nov 11 08:34:58 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Nov 10 23:01:24 2010. Not really. It's more like southern blacks and southern whites didn't want to sit in the same part of the bus.I think you're only half right. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Nov 11 08:48:26 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Nov 11 08:32:14 2010. Pwn3d |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 11 09:24:54 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Nov 10 22:25:44 2010. I guess you haven't been to Mea Shearim lately... |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 11 09:26:19 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Nov 10 22:31:49 2010. There are several "mehadrin" lines, both on intracity and intercity routes in IsraelI think the word several indicates that there are some, but not many. It is also important to note that to some destinations (and I'm not pulling up anything to reference off of right now), I think the majority of services are segregated, even if unofficially. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by JAzumah on Thu Nov 11 10:29:57 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Nov 11 08:34:58 2010. Yeah, only half right. Black people didn't have much of a say in the matter. |
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Re: The B110 has a website |
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Posted by JAzumah on Thu Nov 11 10:38:27 2010, in response to Re: The B110 has a website, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Nov 11 08:32:14 2010. The upstate issue came about with a non-Jewish passenger who was uncomfortable with said custom being "enforced" with her. It just doesn't work that way in practical application. |
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