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| Re: 9/10/77 (977482) | |
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Re: 9/10/77 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 19:42:11 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by El-Train on Sat Sep 11 15:28:34 2010. It was going downhill, as the economy did, and it suffered big time from the looting 2 months prior, but the loss of the el finished off what Jamaica used to be forever. People just went to Green Acres. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 19:43:18 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Sep 11 16:00:16 2010. There were three anchor stores: Mays, Macy's and Gertz. Two of the three actually closed before the el did, Mays went under a little after. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 19:44:28 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by streetcarman1 on Sat Sep 11 16:53:56 2010. Jamaica's decline would have been smoother and less complete had the el survived. Jamaica in the mid 1980's was a crack infested hellhole with abandoned stores everywhere. |
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Re: 9/10/77 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 19:45:35 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Sat Sep 11 19:23:29 2010. The ones showing the three closed stations were all taken 9/11/77. They ran two fantrips out to 168th on that day, one using the B types and the other using the D types. |
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Posted by B53RICH on Sat Sep 11 19:54:39 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Sep 11 16:00:16 2010. Somehow I think the opening of the Queens Center Mall had an effect as well in the downfall of the Jamaica Business District. A new indoor shopping mall close to a variety of transportation and space for parking. It drew away many customers. |
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Posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Sat Sep 11 20:00:38 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by B53RICH on Sat Sep 11 19:54:39 2010. Thanks I meant the 2 pics with the dumb Archer Ave crap being built. |
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| (977949) | |
Re: 9/10/77 |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Sat Sep 11 20:03:43 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 19:44:28 2010. "Jamaica's decline would have been smoother and less complete had the el survived. Jamaica in the mid 1980's was a crack infested hellhole with abandoned stores everywhere."I don't see how the El would have saved the economic decline of Jamaica. If you want to blame anyone, blame the city government for letting it get that way in the first place, as in POOR PLANNING. As for the "crack-infested" part.....where was the NYPD? eh? we pay taxes to keep that crap off the streets.....were they at the donut shop? eh? |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Sat Sep 11 20:04:24 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by B53RICH on Sat Sep 11 19:54:39 2010. IAWTP |
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Re: 9/10/77 |
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Posted by B53RICH on Sat Sep 11 20:06:03 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 19:43:18 2010. I remember as a kid with my parents shopping in Gertz, we were on the top floor and there was a window that overlooked the elevated tracks.One of the last times I was in then Jamaica Mays was probably early 80's. It looked more like a bargain store plus the big hanging clock was gone. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 20:23:41 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by streetcarman1 on Sat Sep 11 20:03:43 2010. It would have been a more gradual, steady decline and would not have bottomed out as deeply as it did. Instead, Jamaica just fell apart in a couple of years. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 20:24:40 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Sat Sep 11 20:00:38 2010. Those were both taken in the summer of 1985, about 4 months after they closed Queens Blvd. and Metropolitan Ave. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 20:26:08 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 19:45:35 2010. Sorry, I thought you meant the original post. Those two pics date to 8/1985. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Sep 11 20:56:40 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 19:39:36 2010. Yes because it was a pain in the ass to leave the system and walk the half block between Jamaica and Hillside to that other hell hole they rented as crew quarters. Rats all over the place there too. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 22:21:23 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Sep 11 20:56:40 2010. They rented space outside the system to use for crew quarters? LOL.The 143rd St. mezzanine was hardly used. |
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| (978009) | |
Re: 9/10/77 |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Sep 11 22:50:58 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 19:39:36 2010. Wow, that's a great photo. What's with the roof missing? Was that missing till the end? It looks like when they rehabbed stations more recently putting the new roofs on, but they wouldn't have done that there on a station they were going to abandon? |
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| (978010) | |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Sep 11 22:51:31 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 19:43:18 2010. Aside from Macy's, all those other stores closed when the chains themselves went out of business. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Sep 11 22:52:12 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by streetcarman1 on Sat Sep 11 20:03:43 2010. Very easily. The el was the lifeline which brought people there. Once gone, so was it's lifeline. It was in decline before the el left, but it plunged like a bomb after it was gone. |
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| (978016) | |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 23:12:39 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Sep 11 22:50:58 2010. Queens Blvd got a cosmetic rehab when it was made into a terminal. It was the only station on the line to sport this two-tone blue paintjob: |
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| (978017) | |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Sep 11 23:15:24 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 23:12:39 2010. Ghods! Was there ANY escape from Ronan's "war between the states" warpaint job colors? :( |
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| (978018) | |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Sep 11 23:17:02 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 19:40:46 2010. hmmm...funny you mention that. it was "honest AL" that got work stopped on the line early on due to shoddy concrete work. also..any scandle dealing with the new routes somehow had AL INVOLVED... WHY? |
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| (978019) | |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 23:17:11 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Sep 11 23:15:24 2010. Relax. It didn't last long. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Sep 11 23:22:01 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 23:17:11 2010. Heh. Even when I as working for the Empty-yay, that damned paint scheme just CRIED out for Krylon (tm) ... :) |
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| (978022) | |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Sep 11 23:23:09 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 19:44:28 2010. CRACK INFESTED..?Shit..Everywhere WAS CRACK INFECTED back then. |
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Re: 9/10/77 |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Sep 11 23:23:23 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 23:12:39 2010. So they gave it a new roof too? |
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| (978024) | |
Re: 9/10/77 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 23:26:14 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Sep 11 23:23:23 2010. I'm not sure. I don't think Jamaica Ave el stations ever had the asbestos roofs that the stations in Brooklyn had until the mid 90's. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 23:27:34 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Edwards! on Sat Sep 11 23:23:09 2010. Some more than others. Crack devastated Jamaica and ENY particularly. ENY was SCARY in the mid 80's. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Sep 11 23:32:25 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 23:26:14 2010. The roof is missing in this photo you posted:
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| (978068) | |
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Posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Sun Sep 12 02:16:27 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 20:26:08 2010. Excellent pics Im trying to figure where that section with the el "cut in half" Do you have any others? |
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Posted by Ian Lennon on Sun Sep 12 03:41:08 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 23:27:34 2010. Woodhaven was no walk in the park either. |
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| (978074) | |
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Posted by VictorM on Sun Sep 12 05:00:16 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 11 12:36:13 2010. Sorry to correct, but the open portion was between just west of 127 St to just west of 130 St. The first photo was taken near 130 St looking west (showing the utility building under the el at 126 St), the second photo was taken near 127 St looking east (showing the el crossing the LIRR at 130 St). |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 12 07:19:28 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Ian Lennon on Sun Sep 12 03:41:08 2010. Woodhaven wasn't nearly as bad as Jamaica got. |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Sep 12 07:28:40 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Sep 11 17:07:42 2010. Or as I would do, a complete rebuild of the 3rd Avenue El, Myrtle El, etc:In the case of the 3rd Avenue El, I would rebuild it to BMT/IND specifications where it would be double decked in Manhattan (express upper level, local lower level) with the big transfer point being 60th-63rd Streets, with in-systems transfers to the 4/5/6/N/R at Lex-60th and F/(when the SAS opens) Q at 63rd, plus others at 50th-53rd between the E/M/SAS/6 at 53rd and 42nd between the 4/5/6/7/SAS, with locals running to the by-then completely-rebuilt World Trade Center (via the old 3rd Avenue El's Park Row branch) and expresses to South Ferry, which the express branch going to the Bronx, joined by an SAS line along the old Bronx 3rd Avenue El while locals would go across 125th to a terminal at 125th/Broadway-12th Avenue. This would include the east side's version of the CPW express run from 60th-63rd to 125th without stopping. In the case of the Myrtle El, as previously noted I would rebuild that to be a new version of the W train that would after Navy Street or Metrotech/Bridge-Jay join the Montauge Street line and then run via its old route to Astoria while rush hours, there would also be a Myrtle loop line that would break off (as a "Brown W") and go via Nassau northbound and then via the Willy B and the old M route back to Metropolitan in AM rush hours and in reverse in the PM rush. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Sep 12 08:07:21 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Sep 12 07:28:40 2010. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 12 09:57:59 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Sep 12 08:07:21 2010. Not to mention that there is no way another el will EVER be built in Brooklyn Bronx or Queens, MUCH less Manhattan. Existing structures will probably remain, and be maintained, but there's no way new ones, or ones torn down 40+ years ago will ever be brought back.Rebuilding "the Myrtle" or the 3rd Ave el would be no different today than trying to build an el on a street that never had one before. And Manhattan? Yeah right. |
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Posted by B53RICH on Sun Sep 12 10:55:35 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Sun Sep 12 02:16:27 2010. Those photos were taken at 129 Street. |
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| (978126) | |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 12 11:56:30 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by VictorM on Sun Sep 12 05:00:16 2010. You are correct, that is what people don't understand, Actually, the first photo was taken LOOKING WEST, the "sorry looking el" in THAT photo is the currently STILL IN USE el going towards 121st St station. I think the confusion is that people think that is the abandoned el in this photo: View Larger Map The second photo was taken at 129th St:  View Larger Map |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Sep 12 12:18:17 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Ian Lennon on Sun Sep 12 03:41:08 2010. Woodhaven was much safer in the 80's. We had no drug dealers or drive-bys. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Sep 12 12:18:50 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 12 07:19:28 2010. Woodhaven was nice in the 80's. Still mostly working class white ethnics. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Sep 12 12:21:49 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Sun Sep 12 02:16:27 2010. They aren't mine, and this is the only other one I know to exist:
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Sep 12 12:24:31 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 12 11:56:30 2010. Jeez, it's hard to tell these are the same areas. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Sep 12 12:25:41 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Sep 11 23:32:25 2010. I don't recall it ever being like that at a later time, but the Jamaica bound platform was not used much outside rush hour. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Sep 12 12:28:27 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 12 09:57:59 2010. I believe that a modern el, on a viaduct using new technology to keep noise down could be sold to the residents of the Bronx who must suffer with the Bx55. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 12 17:39:32 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Sep 10 22:10:36 2010. Yes, that's why 205th is much further north than 207th (subway terminals I mean) and 242 is right up along the city line, 243 is the highest street, and in a bulge in the city border making it the northernmost point in NYC, and is only one number higher than 241, which is at least a mile from the city line at 263, which is still further south than 243. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Sep 12 17:42:06 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 12 17:39:32 2010. Heh. Fortunately, we had Bronx Park to further add to the confusion. Shows you what kind of surveyors the city hired back then. :) |
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Posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Sun Sep 12 18:15:53 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Sep 12 12:25:41 2010. When was the last of the El cut down I thought I saw it still there well in to the 1990s? |
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Posted by 5119 on Sun Sep 12 19:32:16 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Sep 10 19:01:36 2010. Field shunting is akin overdrive in a car. |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Sep 12 19:46:24 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Sep 11 23:22:01 2010. Luckily none of the R-1/9s that stayed on the IND were repainted. OTOH it was a different story on the Three Stooges Division. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 12 19:56:15 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Sep 12 12:24:31 2010. Yes, it took me a LONG time to figure out the exact locations of those two photos on google street view. So much changed. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Sep 12 19:59:36 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Sep 12 19:46:24 2010. I saw those. I cried. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Sep 12 20:14:08 2010, in response to Re: 9/10/77, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Sep 12 19:59:36 2010. LOL!That paint job just didn't work. |
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