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| (825172) | |
Re: Trolley operation questions |
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Posted by piyer on Tue Aug 25 04:21:49 2009, in response to Trolley operation questions, posted by gbs on Tue Aug 25 00:57:01 2009. Let me take a stab at this...1. Trolleys employed both handles and foot pedal controls -- though not both on the same car. IIRC, the controllers were common on older stock, while the PCC cars used foot controls. Here are some photos I found on line for reference: Photo #1 | Photo #2 | Photo #3 | Photo #4 2. I'm not totally sure on this one. I would imagine that most often they were controlled by the trolley's operator, although a switch tender or tower seems logical at major terminals, carbarns, or junctions. 3. I'm not sure on this one either, but on in-the-street trackage, following the stop lights seems to be the only needed signals. 4. Then, like today with buses, who has the right of way depends on who you ask. ;o) But yes, it was probably a ticket-able offense to block the trolley tracks. And I dare say that a trolley was in a better position than a bus to *ahem* relocate the offending vehicle. 5. I suspect that there might have been stretches of track where you could flag down the cars, but mostly it there were dedicated stops such as this one: Trolley stop at 5th Ave & 69th Street, Bay Ridge Brooklyn. |
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| (825173) | |
Re: Trolley operation questions |
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Posted by NewLots to 242 on Tue Aug 25 05:20:18 2009, in response to Re: Trolley operation questions, posted by piyer on Tue Aug 25 04:21:49 2009. I can add a few of the things I remember from my childhood days in BrooklynItem 2: At at least one major junction, the switch was controlled by the operator. There was a junction at the corner of Rockaway and East New York Avenues, which supported three north-south routes on Rockaway Ave (Wilson, St. Johns and Ralph-Rockaway - more or less today's B60, B45 and B40(?) as they were then) and one east-west route (Bergen,roughly today's B65). Two of the northbound routes turned west at the junction, the third one continued northward. I'd often see the operator jump out of the car, open a little hinged plate next to the tracks, and "do something". Item 4: It was illegal for an auto to approach within eight feet of a stopped car - especially at the side where the passengers were getting on and off - and if the car stopped, the auto had to stop immediately. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9A0CE7DF1E3FE432A25751C2A9669D946095D6CF Item 5: The picture is definitely typical. Notice that a few "brave souls" are waiting for the car off the curb and into the street. BUT, the woman holding the young child's hand far back from the curb shows great sense and care. I was roughly about the little boy's age when taking the trolley was a common event in our family. Mom and Dad each took one of us two brothers in hand while waiting for the trolley.. |
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| (825175) | |
Re: Trolley operation questions |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Aug 25 05:37:12 2009, in response to Trolley operation questions, posted by gbs on Tue Aug 25 00:57:01 2009. Take a ride to BERA (Shoreline Trolley Museum) in East Haven and you can learn everything there is to know about trolleys. Become a member and on Member's day you can even ride (or operate) a Brooklyn Trolley. And if you want, they're always hiring trolley operators (the training is every March) although it isn't financially lucrative as it's strictly a volunteer position. |
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| (825183) | |
Re: Trolley operation questions |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 25 07:09:13 2009, in response to Trolley operation questions, posted by gbs on Tue Aug 25 00:57:01 2009. Some of your questions have already been answered, but I'll tell you what I know.1. What kind of controls did the trolleys have? Handles, like the subways, or foot controls, like the buses? Most had hand controls, PCCs have foot pedals similar to buses. 2. Who controlled the switches in the street that caused the trolleys to diverge or merge? Were there interlockings and towers? Most switches were electrically controlled by whether the trolley was drawing power or not from the wire when passing a specific point. All cars carried a switch iron for non-powered switches or errors. 3. There don't seem to have been special signals for the trolleys. Did they simply obey the traffic lights, like the cars and buses? They obeyed traffic signals. 4. Trolleys couldn't steer around obstructions. Did they always have the right of way? Always. Most people with IQs above that of a slug knew not to obstruct a trolley track. 5. Were there specific stops in the middle of the street, or did passengers wave them down wherever they were? Basically, you could hail a trolley at any corner. "Trolley Stations" were established during World War I to save coal and many of the signs were still up at the end of operations, but they had long since returned to "hail at any street corner" stops. |
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| (825249) | |
Re: Trolley operation questions |
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Posted by bmtlines on Tue Aug 25 09:43:37 2009, in response to Re: Trolley operation questions, posted by piyer on Tue Aug 25 04:21:49 2009. 1. Trolleys employed both handles and foot pedal controls -- though not both on the same carIINM Third Avenue Railway #629 at the Branford Trolley museum has a hand controller combined with a foot brake |
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| (825367) | |
Re: Trolley operation questions |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Aug 25 14:02:37 2009, in response to Re: Trolley operation questions, posted by bmtlines on Tue Aug 25 09:43:37 2009. The foot brake was pretty much standard on TARS equipment and probably unique to that property and any property that acquired their cars after cessation of TARS trolley operations. According to some of my sources, the foot brake also acted as the deadman's pedal since it required the operator to depress it in order to release the brakes. To apply the brakes, the operator would ease up on the pedal and of course, if the pedal were allowed to spring up entirely, the brakes would apply in emergency. |
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| (825368) | |
Re: Trolley operation questions |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Aug 25 14:08:25 2009, in response to Re: Trolley operation questions, posted by piyer on Tue Aug 25 04:21:49 2009. As to #5, according to my mother, at least in Manhattan and the Bronx, streetcars and buses stopped at every street corner and almost always on the near side of the intersection. The practice of having buses and streetcars stop at alternate blocks started during WWII as a fuel conservation measure. If you notice, in the Bkln photo, the car stop signs that are in the passenger safety zone are movable. The same was true of the original bus stop signs, at least those I remember in Manhattan and the Bronx. I would assume that due to theft, by the early 1950s, they were replaced by permanent bus stop signs. |
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| (825369) | |
Re: Trolley operation questions |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Aug 25 14:11:26 2009, in response to Re: Trolley operation questions, posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 25 07:09:13 2009. I wasn't aware of the WWI situation, but as I mentioned in my other post, according to my mother, the practice of having specific trolley and bus stops usually at alternate street corners started (again) for fuel conservation during WWII. |
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| (825372) | |
Re: Trolley operation questions |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Aug 25 14:14:50 2009, in response to Re: Trolley operation questions, posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 25 07:09:13 2009. On PCC cars, there was a toggle switch on the operator's console which could electrically throw switches in lieu of the "power on/power off" system on the older cars. |
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| (825424) | |
Re: Trolley operation questions |
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Posted by bmtlines on Tue Aug 25 16:29:01 2009, in response to Re: Trolley operation questions, posted by randyo on Tue Aug 25 14:02:37 2009. According to some of my sources, the foot brake also acted as the deadman's pedal since it required the operator to depress it in order to release the brakes. To apply the brakes, the operator would ease up on the pedal and of course, if the pedal were allowed to spring up entirely, the brakes would apply in emergency.That's how I remember it from Branford |
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| (825425) | |
Re: Trolley operation questions |
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Posted by bmtlines on Tue Aug 25 16:29:01 2009, in response to Re: Trolley operation questions, posted by randyo on Tue Aug 25 14:02:37 2009. According to some of my sources, the foot brake also acted as the deadman's pedal since it required the operator to depress it in order to release the brakes. To apply the brakes, the operator would ease up on the pedal and of course, if the pedal were allowed to spring up entirely, the brakes would apply in emergency.That's how I remember it from Branford |
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| (825441) | |
Re: Trolley operation questions |
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Posted by jan k. lorenzen on Tue Aug 25 17:33:12 2009, in response to Re: Trolley operation questions, posted by randyo on Tue Aug 25 14:14:50 2009. On some PCC cars there was a separate toggle (or push button) for the activating electric switches, on some others there was nothing and the car used power on/off activation.The actual function of the dash gang switch toggles was semi-custom to the original operator or subsequent operator's needs. There was also a minor variance on the foot pedals too. Besides Chicago's hand controls, there was St. Louis who had a two foot pedal arrangment, accel and brake with the dead man on heel switches. Most PCC's however had three pedals which would be familiar to auto operators. LH = deadman, center = brake, and RH = power. Modern streetcars built by a number of manufacturers can have either foot pedals or a side joystick. Most of the new streetcars coming out of Europe I've seen pics of have joysticks. |
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| (825458) | |
Re: Trolley operation questions |
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Posted by Frank Hicks on Tue Aug 25 18:20:59 2009, in response to Re: Trolley operation questions, posted by randyo on Tue Aug 25 14:02:37 2009. The foot brake was pretty much standard on TARS equipment and probably unique to that property and any property that acquired their cars after cessation of TARS trolley operations.It's very rare design, but I believe that St. Louis Public Service retrofitted their Peter Witt cars with foot brakes as well. Frank Hicks |
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| (825495) | |
Re: Trolley operation questions |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Aug 25 20:07:25 2009, in response to Re: Trolley operation questions, posted by jan k. lorenzen on Tue Aug 25 17:33:12 2009. There was also another variation on San Francisco's "magic carpet" cars (so named because MUNI didn't want to pay PCC royalties on them). These cars had a GE 17KC50A1 master controller incorporating both power and braking in a single handle like the WABCO cineston. These were the same controllers that were in the BMT Bluebird with one modification. On the magic carpet cars, the deadman's handle was fastened in the down position and there was a separate foot pedal for the deadman's device. On the bluebirds, the controller handle was spring loaded and needed to be depressed while operating as on most conventional rapid transit cars. |
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| (825506) | |
Re: Trolley operation questions |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 25 20:26:10 2009, in response to Re: Trolley operation questions, posted by randyo on Tue Aug 25 14:11:26 2009. During WWI there were coal shortages where the traction companies actually counted there supply in days. |
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| (825555) | |
Re: Trolley operation questions |
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Posted by jan k. lorenzen on Tue Aug 25 22:45:13 2009, in response to Re: Trolley operation questions, posted by randyo on Tue Aug 25 20:07:25 2009. Right, I was going to mention the Cineston and similar controller cars.The majority of cars these days have the joysticks now, even alot the Tatra T3's that were modernized were converted from pedals to joysticks. I think the Boston Type 7's have pedals but its been a while. The Von Dullen New Orleans cars I think have pedals. |
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