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| Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? (772467) | |
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| (773586) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by Ken S. on Tue Apr 21 00:45:04 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by italianstallion on Tue Apr 21 00:30:18 2009. Olog's just making a possibly incorrect comparison of Wal-Mart's prices to the quality of the products sold there. |
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| (773605) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 21 01:53:33 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by italianstallion on Tue Apr 21 00:30:18 2009. How do I know what, in particular? Whether the "Great Value" bread is worse than Wonder Bread or not? Figured I might be prejudiced based on pricing . . . ? |
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| (773606) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 21 01:53:55 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by Ken S. on Tue Apr 21 00:45:04 2009. How is it possibly incorrect? |
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| (773608) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 21 01:55:17 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 20 13:12:15 2009. Do you seriously even try?Maybe he doesn't care enough to try. Excessive foam makes people care more about stuff like that. |
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| (773619) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Apr 21 03:40:38 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Apr 20 22:22:35 2009. You're probably right, although in this case, a bake-off produces no great victory.your pal, Fred |
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| (773623) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by Transit Jeff on Tue Apr 21 04:41:46 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Sat Apr 18 22:49:51 2009. Shore interlocking.....it's all revenue passenger rail. |
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| (773624) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by Transit Jeff on Tue Apr 21 04:49:54 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by metrolinecoach111 on Sun Apr 19 00:05:49 2009. Thanks for the compliment.....I've lived in Atlantic City for 55 years. I actually rode the Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines trains years ago. Most of the RDC's are now on the Cape May Seashore Lines, a tourist railroad. There are also a couple of P-70 coaches, but not original P-RSL. They're exPRR P-70's. I rode P-RSL P-70s pulled by Baldwin Diesel locomotives, years ago. |
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| (773625) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by Transit Jeff on Tue Apr 21 04:53:58 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by Ken S. on Sun Apr 19 02:00:04 2009. N. J. Transit tickets are not accepted on ACES. Nor are ACES tickets accepted on NJT. And ACES "is not" part of NJT's operations. ACES pays NJT a fee to operate it "for them". |
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| (773626) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by Transit Jeff on Tue Apr 21 05:07:21 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by Deaks on Mon Apr 20 15:27:40 2009. And where would they "store" these locomotives in the area of Shore Interlocking. There are no storage/service facilities except at 30th Street, miles away. It would involve lots of deadheading. Who would pay for the crews and other costs? The whole idea of a loco change at Shore Interlocking is crazy. The only way, short of dual-mode locomotives, is the way they're doing it.When the new dual-mode locomotives arrive, it could get interesting. But due to the economy and poor ridership, I doubt ACES would invest in dual-modes. |
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| (773643) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Apr 21 06:13:55 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 21 01:55:17 2009. oh he cares plenty. he's just also plenty dumb, plenty lazy, and an ass. |
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| (773717) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Apr 21 11:23:39 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 21 01:53:33 2009. The difference isn't that much. Especially considering cost. |
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| (773719) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Apr 21 11:26:46 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 21 01:53:55 2009. Cheaper doesn't normally mean better. Take OTC drugs. Wal-Mart's version of Benadryl is chemically identical to the name brand, yet I can get a bottle of 400 for $5 at Walmart, wheras a bottle of 100 of the name brand at the local drug store costs twice as much. Everything is cheaper at Wal-Mart, except meat. Quality wise, there's not much distinction. |
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| (773720) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Apr 21 11:27:54 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by chuchubob on Mon Apr 20 15:24:48 2009. Cool. No fun riding in the bottom of a multilevel. |
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| (773834) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Tue Apr 21 13:59:45 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by Transit Jeff on Tue Apr 21 05:07:21 2009. I thought Amtrak did it there for their Springfield - NYP - AC daily runs. Do you know where the second change occurred? (First one being at New Haven, of course)The train initially didn't go to 30th Street so it had to be somewhere between Newark and North Philly. |
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| (773933) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by chuchubob on Tue Apr 21 17:44:18 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by Wado MP73 on Tue Apr 21 13:59:45 2009. The engine change was at SHORE. Jeff is saying that it would be counterproductive to do an ACES engine change there. He's right. |
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| (773941) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Apr 21 18:18:13 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by chuchubob on Tue Apr 21 17:44:18 2009. In terms of bean counting, would the engine change even be cheaper, considering the labor involved? |
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| (773949) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by Ken S. on Tue Apr 21 18:48:55 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Apr 21 18:18:13 2009. There are no ACES Cab Cars. The second engine is the cab car by default. |
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| (773954) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Apr 21 19:19:22 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by Ken S. on Tue Apr 21 18:48:55 2009. I am sure that with the money that they spent, procuring a Multilevel cab or three instead of a few Multilevel coaches wouldn't have been a big deal, if need be.My original question dealt with how much, if any, a hypothetical power change would save versus 'the poor man' dual mode'. |
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| (773958) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by chuchubob on Tue Apr 21 19:47:25 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Apr 21 19:19:22 2009. I think the hypothetical power change would cost more than the present setup. The idle power would have to be stored somewhere and deadheaded to SHORE, requiring another crew. NJT doesn't store equipment at 30th Street, so a storage location would have to be worked out.Having a cab car at each end of the train would take away lounge space, as the lounge is at one end of the train to avoid having passengers walk through it to go to a different car.   However, I don't think the additional cost of changing engines was a major consideration. The time consumed with an engine change is the important factor that resulted in the decision to have a diesel locomotive on one end and an electric motor on the other. |
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| (773959) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Tue Apr 21 19:48:13 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by chuchubob on Tue Apr 21 17:44:18 2009. Thanks. What I was trying to say is that I would not go as far as calling it "crazy" since it was done not too far back. It's not like I'm comparing to something that was done in the fifties. |
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| (773964) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Tue Apr 21 20:02:28 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by chuchubob on Tue Apr 21 19:47:25 2009. Well, Amtrak used to do the engine change at New Haven in 10 minutes.Does the same engineer run the diesel and the ALP, going back and forth the train at SHORE? If so, it looks like a labor cost issue than time to me. If time was more important they could have had one engineer at each end of the train to turn around faster. |
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| (773973) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by b1bus on Tue Apr 21 20:24:59 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by b1bus on Sun Apr 19 15:17:59 2009. Also, in Newark Customer service office is a2008 intermodel guide for South Jersey which has a riverline/R7 / patco geographic map from Trenton to Philly. |
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| (774014) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by metrolinecoach111 on Tue Apr 21 21:49:36 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by Wado MP73 on Tue Apr 21 20:02:28 2009. I believe (and I could be wrong here) - that there is one engineer, the announcement they always make when they get to Shore refers to the "engineer" changing engines... then about 6 or 7 minutes later, the lead conductor shuffles the power. |
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| (774024) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by chuchubob on Tue Apr 21 21:57:00 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by metrolinecoach111 on Tue Apr 21 21:49:36 2009. The engineer walks from one engine to the other at Shore. Cost/benefit consideration would preclude having two engineers for a two hour forty-five minute trip. |
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| (774054) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Tue Apr 21 23:00:51 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by chuchubob on Tue Apr 21 21:57:00 2009. Then it makes sense. I wonder if the AEM-7 was able to act as a cab car to the Amtrak diesels of the time and vice-versa and run the same way? |
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| (774117) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by chuchubob on Wed Apr 22 07:43:07 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by Wado MP73 on Tue Apr 21 23:00:51 2009. Amtrak was using F40's at the time; they didn't fit into NY Penn Station. |
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| (774137) | |
Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''? |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Wed Apr 22 09:26:31 2009, in response to Re: Route of the NYC-ACE ''ACES train''?, posted by chuchubob on Wed Apr 22 07:43:07 2009. So there was one more reason to do an engine change. |
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