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PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sat Feb 28 21:23:16 2009 From the first time I saw the entrance to the PATH at the underground mall at the former World Trade Center to now, I've always been a fan of PATH. My first ride on PATH was in the mid-1990's. After all these years PATH has entered a new era in mass transit. Without further ado, enjoy:     
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| (749958) | |
Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by olivermuc on Sat Feb 28 21:31:53 2009, in response to PA5 Pics, posted by Forest Glen on Sat Feb 28 21:23:16 2009. Nice shots! So the PA5 are finally in passenger service now. Is it already more than 1 set running? |
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| (749959) | |
Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Feb 28 21:32:33 2009, in response to PA5 Pics, posted by Forest Glen on Sat Feb 28 21:23:16 2009. Amazing, they have a widecab and yet they still have the C/R position in the middle of the car. Way to go PATH, I do believe that may qualify as an epic fail. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Feb 28 21:38:54 2009, in response to PA5 Pics, posted by Forest Glen on Sat Feb 28 21:23:16 2009. Nice pics. Is there some sort of temporary grace period in effect for PATH photography or something? |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Bingham C50 on Sat Feb 28 21:42:21 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by Easy on Sat Feb 28 21:38:54 2009. I don't know...but whatever is going/not going on, I'm glad it's allowing folks to get some very nice shots of these attractive new cars. |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sat Feb 28 21:43:12 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by Easy on Sat Feb 28 21:38:54 2009. No. However, before I took the pics I watched my back to make sure there were no cops. Instead of Grove Street (which is difficult to photograph due to platform pillars) I was going to take pics at Exchange Place but I saw a cop there. |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Bingham C50 on Sat Feb 28 21:43:50 2009, in response to PA5 Pics, posted by Forest Glen on Sat Feb 28 21:23:16 2009. These are very nice photos.You're very good at this. BTW, I'm glad you're posting here again. Sorry we got off on the wrong foot. |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Sat Feb 28 21:46:45 2009, in response to PA5 Pics, posted by Forest Glen on Sat Feb 28 21:23:16 2009. Nice photos!! Sad how they look like 51-foot R-143/160s!! |
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| (749974) | |
Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Feb 28 21:49:37 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by WillD on Sat Feb 28 21:32:33 2009. Amazing, they have a widecab and yet they still have the C/R position in the middle of the car.Yeah that's a huge head scratcher.... Are the cars mated pairs, with a full width cab at each end of the mated pair? |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Feb 28 21:50:43 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Sat Feb 28 21:46:45 2009. At least they put some color on the ends....Nothing worse than the NYCT and LIRR approach. At least your outfit decided to go for a splash of color too. |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sat Feb 28 21:52:06 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by Bingham C50 on Sat Feb 28 21:43:50 2009. It's ok. The person who caused me the most stress and anxiety is gone (at least for now). No more crazy posts, racist remarks, or threats against other members. I just want to be a happy railfan. |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Danny at 103rd street on Sat Feb 28 22:39:03 2009, in response to PA5 Pics, posted by Forest Glen on Sat Feb 28 21:23:16 2009. Those cars look good I caught it today I got one Picture I may post tomorrow |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Sat Feb 28 23:03:36 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Sat Feb 28 21:46:45 2009. I disagree about the looks. The roof is more tube shaped into the doorlines and the FRA door glazing will look a hell of a lot better in the long run than the aluminum frames that are by now pitted on NYCT. And at least they went with Kawi. Compare the straphanger's bars on the R62As vs. the R62s. Little things will mean alot after 20 years |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Feb 28 23:16:36 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by BLE-NIMX on Sat Feb 28 23:03:36 2009. Compare the straphanger's bars on the R62As vs. the R62s. Little things will mean alot after 20 yearsIf the PA4s are any indication, the new cars won't make 25 years! |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Danny at 103rd street on Sat Feb 28 23:27:22 2009, in response to PA5 Pics, posted by Forest Glen on Sat Feb 28 21:23:16 2009. I think in that second to last photo I was in the last car I ask the security in the second to last photo if I could take a photo but he said no Asshole but I got my shot at Harrison Nice shots by the way dude |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by jb on Sat Feb 28 23:29:06 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by olivermuc on Sat Feb 28 21:31:53 2009. I thought the Conductors had closed cabs also?? |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Bingham C50 on Sat Feb 28 23:55:52 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by Forest Glen on Sat Feb 28 21:52:06 2009. That's all we want, too.:) |
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Posted by dinky on Sun Mar 1 00:00:36 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by Danny at 103rd street on Sat Feb 28 23:27:22 2009. I don't mean to be a jerk, but it's difficult to understand what you write when you don't use any punctuation. |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Broadway Buffer on Sun Mar 1 00:25:51 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Feb 28 21:49:37 2009. With the exception of how easy it is to observe the master door panel or whatever it's called, it looks like an open invitation to vandalism being that it's all completely unprotected. Also doesn't seem good since C/Rs will have no separation between them and the public while operating. There would also be no private IC, so anything communicated through it will also be heard by riders, unless I'm missing something. I could also imagine some people fooling with the PA. |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Ken S. on Sun Mar 1 00:28:48 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by Broadway Buffer on Sun Mar 1 00:25:51 2009. That's the way it's been on PATH since the first PAs went into service. |
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| (750040) | |
Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Broadway Buffer on Sun Mar 1 00:37:33 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by Ken S. on Sun Mar 1 00:28:48 2009. Whoops. Truth be told I know very little about PATH, so excuse my ignorance on the subject. However, I would still think that they would have some provision for a C/R cab on new tech equipment, but apparently they're satisfied continuing with the present arrangement if that's the case. |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Sun Mar 1 00:51:03 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Feb 28 21:49:37 2009. Not pairs. I don't think PATH ever had married pairs. |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun Mar 1 01:04:05 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by Bingham C50 on Sat Feb 28 21:43:50 2009. I would have to agree. |
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Posted by EastSideRider on Sun Mar 1 02:19:09 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by Danny at 103rd street on Sat Feb 28 23:27:22 2009. They're just enforcing the no photo rule :-\ Heh, just try things another way ;-) |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Mar 1 09:00:34 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by Wado MP73 on Sun Mar 1 00:51:03 2009. I assume 5600's have cabs at one end and 5100's are blind motors. Same arrangement as the PA1 & 2 cars. |
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| (750106) | |
Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Mar 1 09:02:02 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Feb 28 21:50:43 2009. I think they are a lot better looking than R142's, just as the PA1 looked a lot better than the R38. |
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| (750113) | |
Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Danny at 103rd street on Sun Mar 1 09:33:08 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by dinky on Sun Mar 1 00:00:36 2009. Whoops my bad lol |
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| (750125) | |
Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Sun Mar 1 09:58:31 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Feb 28 21:50:43 2009. I agree about the color lack on the part of LIRR and NYCT.And is it me, or do the LIRR M-7s look like they been on the road over 10 or more years?? They are some very tired looking cars. Guess in the warmer months, they felt washing the cars were not a big priority!! lol |
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| (750137) | |
Question about PA-Series Cars Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Mar 1 10:38:09 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Sun Mar 1 09:58:31 2009. Are PATH cars considered subway cars or railroad cars? It seems that PATH, with all the other features of a "subway system" would be looked upon as such (off-train fare collection, two-person crews, subway-style operation)...but IIRC, PATH was designated a "railroad" years ago, with FRA oversight. Is this still the case today?I'm doing "jailhouse lawyer" legal research, because there is a disparity in what is legal on PATH vs. NYCT, for example, photography and walking between cars, which is permitted on PATH but illegal on NYCT. The law in NYC states, "No person shall use the end doors of a subway car to pass between one car and another", but as the law does not specify NYCT exclusively, it must apply to all "subway cars" in the five boroughs, no? Conversely, if photography is legal in NYC and NYS, can PATH have a "rule" or "law" that contravenes NYS law? |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Mar 1 10:52:33 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Feb 28 23:16:36 2009. Why? Are the PA4s having mechanical problems? I thought the reason PATH wanted to retire them was so they could have a uniform fleet of cars. |
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Re: Question about PA-Series Cars Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 1 11:21:44 2009, in response to Question about PA-Series Cars Re: PA5 Pics, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Mar 1 10:38:09 2009. Law is based on jurisdiction.The US Constitution applies at least in every state and territory. The NY constitution however applies only to NY, and the NJ constitution applies only to NJ. That is the highest level of law. Then you have lower levels of law which are subject to applicable higher level constraints, e.g., at Grove St PATH is subject to the US and NJ constitutions. The highest of these lower levels of law are statutes, which are bills passed into law by a legislature in the relevant jurisdiction. Some of these statutes effectively act as constitutions for lower levels of law like regulations, which are enacted by an agency or authority (they have other names too) pursuant to the applicable administrative law statutes, which must comply with all higher law. The law in NYC states, "No person shall use the end doors of a subway car to pass between one car and another", but as the law does not specify NYCT exclusively, it must apply to all "subway cars" in the five boroughs, no? Negative. As I recall, you are quoting a regulation enacted by NYCTA. As such it is limited to NYCTA operations. Conversely, if photography is legal in NYC and NYS, can PATH have a "rule" or "law" that contravenes NYS law? Negative, generally. At least not where NYC or NYS law is applicable, generally. My qualification is due to the fact that the PA may have a special exemption in NYS or NYC law. But a challenge to PATH will succeed, if anywhere, in NJ state courts, under the NJ constitution. This is because the NJ constitution is generally a far more expansive conferral of free expression and related rights than are the US or NY constitutions. |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 1 11:23:08 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Mar 1 10:52:33 2009. Why? Are the PA4s having mechanical problems?Not that I know of. I thought the reason PATH wanted to retire them was so they could have a uniform fleet of cars. Indeed. My only point was that PATH might well elect to replace the PA5s in less than 25 years. |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Mar 1 11:45:35 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 1 11:23:08 2009. There is nothing to suggest that your prediction is reasonable. |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 1 12:05:43 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Mar 1 11:45:35 2009. I didn't say that PATH will necessarily replace the trains, only that it might choose to do so in less than 25 years. We have been assuming approximate lifetimes for rapid transit EMUs of about 35-45 years, but PATH is in no way bound by that assumption. It could be the case that PATH chooses to opt for a 40 year lifetime, or it could be the case that the PA believes that PATH is benefited by newer cars and it is open to replacing the PATH fleet at relatively quicker intervals more on the order of 20-30 years.After all, NYCT went with the GOH option, but had they not, R62/As and R68/As (and a 60' or 67' model based thereon) could have replaced the entirety of the then-existing NYCT fleet. Given the not insignificant cost of the GOH program, perhaps it would have been more cost-effective to replace the entire fleet at that point. It would certainly have made things less interesting for me as a railfan, but there is nothing to suggest that the 35-45 year lifetime is a target to shoot for irrespective of other costs and efficiencies. Further, LIRR may choose to replace the M3s with M9s, although this decision has not yet been made. So that is another example of how the 35-45 year lifetime may be at odds with recent practice. |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Mar 1 12:09:02 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 1 11:23:08 2009. Wasn't there a report of some agency or country that was willing to buy the PA4's? |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 1 12:11:48 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Mar 1 12:09:02 2009. Wasn't there a report of some agency or country that was willing to buy the PA4's?I'm not sure. I guess that the difficulty would be in finding a match to their dimensions, and having the transaction make sense for the purchaser. |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Mar 1 12:12:35 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 1 12:05:43 2009. The new trains use more modular components. You can swap out circuit boards, a/c units and other things and replace them with upgraded equipments. You can upgrade software. It's an application of the LRU concept the military services do ("Line Replaceable Units") This means that upgrading a subway car with new gear and improved functions does not require a complete overhaul. |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Sun Mar 1 17:20:24 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Mar 1 12:09:02 2009. Wasn't there a report of some agency or country that was willing to buy the PA4's?As told by us (11/1/09 E.R.A. tour)by a PATH official, about 28 of the best PA-4's are to be retained for work service which will replace all older PA work motors. The balance of the PA-4's are to be bought back by Kawasaki with possible re-manufacture for a transit operation in Peru, SA. By this can change too. Kawasaki built the PA-4's in 1988 at the Yonkers facility. Bill "Newkirk" |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Mar 1 18:05:14 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by Newkirk Images on Sun Mar 1 17:20:24 2009. How many PA-4's are there, total? |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Mar 1 18:30:42 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by Newkirk Images on Sun Mar 1 17:20:24 2009. Ah, ok thanks. |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 1 18:56:18 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by Forest Glen on Sat Feb 28 21:43:12 2009. Isn't there something a little hypocritical about bashing cops enforcing non-existant anti-photography rules on other systems, then advocating violation of actual, existing rules on PATH? |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Mar 1 19:11:12 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 1 18:56:18 2009. Yes. |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Sun Mar 1 21:08:22 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Mar 1 18:05:14 2009. How many PA-4's are there, total?#800 - 894 = 95 cars. Bill "Newkirk" |
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Re: Question about PA-Series Cars Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Mar 1 22:36:07 2009, in response to Question about PA-Series Cars Re: PA5 Pics, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Mar 1 10:38:09 2009. Jay-Zee: To the best of my knowledge PATH is still considered a Class I Railroad by the Federal Railroad Administration. The New York City Subway System is certainly a Class I operation but it is considered a transit system. This is of course a legal distinction. In my own records for many years I have always listed PATH and SIRT as rapid tranist operations.Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 2 09:22:22 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by Newkirk Images on Sun Mar 1 21:08:22 2009. One PA4 got crushed on 9/11/01 |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Mar 2 11:10:21 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by Newkirk Images on Sun Mar 1 21:08:22 2009. Thanks. So they will stick around until most of the PA-5 order is received, then a little over ywo-thirds will be sold off ir scrapped. |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by 156n3rd on Mon Mar 2 17:32:43 2009, in response to PA5 Pics, posted by Forest Glen on Sat Feb 28 21:23:16 2009. What day of the week did you get these? They are so sharp looking! |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Mar 2 19:11:14 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by jb on Sat Feb 28 23:29:06 2009. The C/Rs did not have closed cabs on any of the PATH equipment and that goes back to the H & M K cars, although I think that the engineers' (they are not called M/M or T/Os on PATH) cabs may also have door controls in them in case that's where the C/R's operating position happens to be. |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Mar 2 19:19:01 2009, in response to PA5 Pics, posted by Forest Glen on Sat Feb 28 21:23:16 2009. Has anybody noticed that PATH has now decided to imitate NYCT and eliminate the marker lights from the new cars? |
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Re: PA5 Pics |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Mar 2 19:33:54 2009, in response to Re: PA5 Pics, posted by randyo on Mon Mar 2 19:19:01 2009. ... wow I didn't even catch that. Damn, it was the only remote sign of color-coding on PATH. |
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