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| (669568) | |
MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 19 03:13:49 2008 Flip-up seats will allow a subway car to fit in a lot more standees...Airport people-movers have few or no seats...but you don't ride them for an hour... Link here |
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| (669572) | |
Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Aug 19 03:43:15 2008, in response to MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 19 03:13:49 2008. That would work on the Grand Central Shuttle. And the shuttle needs it. Let's hope this gets serious consideration. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 19 09:31:11 2008, in response to MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 19 03:13:49 2008. Gene Russianoff, a lawyer for the Straphangers Campaign, a rider advocacy group, said he doubted that the plan would be popular with the public, saying, “The cure might be just as bad as the problem.”“You’re talking about trips that can take 40, 50, 60 minutes,” he said. “Standing the entire time is going to be a hardship for many riders.”At least with seats you have a good chance of sitting for at least part of the ride as people get off the train. Even worse now the stupid rule that keeps people virtual prisoners in one car will prevent people from moving from car to car in search of seats. The MTA is showing its true attitude towards us: "The Public Be Damned" And don't give me the BS about ridership being higher now than it was in the 1940's. I challenge anyone to provide proff of that. Yet in the 1940's cars had an even greater seating capacity than they do today. As an example an R-160 has 44 seats, while an Arnine had 56. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (669644) | |
Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 19 09:46:35 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Aug 19 03:43:15 2008. If it were limited to the shuttle I may agree but the MTA has plans to expand this to all lines. I can see some people bringing folding seats with them or sitting on the floor, their briefcases or backpacks. Not everyone can stand for extended periods. Personally I have a lot of trouble holding on to the overhead bars and can't always get a position near a stanchion. The overhead bars are excrutiatingly painfully high. My shoulder and elbow starts hurting within minutes and I find myself trying to balance without holding on to anything - doesn't always work... The old grab handles were much more comfortable. But then again the MTA considers passenger comfort irrelevant. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 09:47:08 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 19 09:31:11 2008. :::Shakes head:::You're not going to change minds here. The movement of a greater number of people is more important than the sitting down of a greater number of people. And we've already explained how people who ::need:: seats can find seats...go to the designated cars and sit in the designated seats at the ends of the cars. And for people who just ::like:: to sit down, go to the designated cars with seats and stand there as usual waiting for a seat to open up. And of course this solution should only be considered temporary until "advances" can be made to allow shorter headways to increase capacity. People should also stop holding the doors. And add more doors per car at the cost of seats. And don't give me the BS about ridership being higher now than it was in the 1940's. I challenge anyone to provide proff of that. Who said anything about that? Ridership IS higher than in the past, but on an annual basis, it hasn't caught up to the "1940's" yet. Yet in the 1940's cars had an even greater seating capacity than they do today. As an example an R-160 has 44 seats, while an Arnine had 56. Off the top of my head, my guess about the reason for that is that I believe that back then they ran more service (shorter headways), thus had a greater capacity, and thus could afford to have a greater percentage of each car dedicated to seating space. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 09:48:10 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 19 09:46:35 2008. but the MTA has plans to expand this to all lines.I haven't seen that stated. While I think it was implied that it would be used on the mainline, I don't think it said it would be used on ALL lines. I could be wrong though about what has been stated. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 19 09:50:51 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 09:48:10 2008. If they are allowed to get away with this on one line they will expand it to all - likewise if this starts in 2 cars it will be expanded to 4 , then 8 , then all... It must be nipped in the bud before it even gets started... |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 19 09:52:57 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 19 09:46:35 2008. Are you a little paranoid? Yes... 8-) |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 09:57:03 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 19 09:50:51 2008. I doubt they would expand it in the unlikely event that a majority of the NYC riding and voting public change their opinion from preferring higher capacity to preferring more seats. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 19 09:59:24 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 19 09:52:57 2008. No... I just know how things work with government. Social security started as a 1% tax and is now a whopping 7.65%. The Federal Income tax started as a 2% tax and is now up to 28% and more.. Smoking bans started in office buildings and have now expanded to bars and restaurants and some cities want to ban all public smoking... Seat belt rules started as secondary offenses and are now primary offenses.. I can go on and on with examples. In every case the people are told "don't worry only 'xyz' will be affected" then in subsequent years the rules are expanded when no-one is paying attention...Give a government agency a hand and they will take your arm... So yes you are right - I don't trust anything the MTA says about this. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 19 10:10:48 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 19 09:59:24 2008. "No... I just know how things work with government"You do? "Social security started as a 1% tax and is now a whopping 7.65%." And we have a lot more retirees to support - feel like cutting them off? Let's start with your family. "The Federal Income tax started as a 2% tax and is now up to 28% and more.. " You could always move to Europe. They only take 60% of your pay in Sweden. "Smoking bans started in office buildings and have now expanded to bars and restaurants" Some of us enjoy breathing. If you want to kill yourself, you're free to do it. Just don't take any of us with you. There won't be room enough in your coffin anyway. There are reasonably good drugs that help with paranoia: Haldol, Risperdal, Zyprexa, Abilify, Geodon. If you are underweight, you might try Risperdal - it will definitely give you an appetite... 8-) |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Aug 19 10:16:55 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 19 10:10:48 2008. Ron sounds like a Democrat.Government is *so* Good! Not. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 19 10:17:26 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 19 10:10:48 2008. Lets make a bet: 5 years from now IF MTA actually goes through with this and I am right that it expands to additional lines/cars beyond the original plan then you will buy me a beer... IF MTA goes through with it and it does not expand beyond the original scope then a round of drinks is on me. I will even visit Reno to collect on my bet and gloat ;-) |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 10:18:51 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Aug 19 10:16:55 2008.  Schultz, seperate those men before they start fighting. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Tue Aug 19 10:26:06 2008, in response to MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 19 03:13:49 2008. So I guess riders who pay $81 a month will be treated like cattle? This is BS. This is merely a band-aid solution to a larger problem of not being able to run more trains without new technology. |
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| (669661) | |
Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Aug 19 10:32:45 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 19 09:31:11 2008. Seats are nice things to have in cars.Getting into a car at all is also a good thing. In Japan, the seats are automatic. They flip up and lock at the touch of a button, unless of course some one is seated on the seat, in which case it will go up when it becomes unoccupied. [Or so the LION presumes, after all the LION has not been to Japan in 40 years.] So say a train approaching Manhattan from the outside world sets the seats to lock up as it enters the city (say 125th Street) then as people vacate seats, they will lock in the up position. When a train leaves the CBD, as the load lightens the seas will release (assuming nobody is standing in the way). Would *that* work? LION does not think so. So seats need to be locked up at the terminal for inbound trains, but could be released as the load lightens going out the other side of the city. (Does *that* happen?) LION does not think that all that much will be gained by putting up the seats. They *should* be there for the elderly and the handicapped. and the fit should yield them to those persons. More trains would also work. "But LION, the lines are maxed out." HORSEPLOPS! 1) Build the Second Avenue Subway, extend it to the Hudson and to the Bronx. 2) Build the Myrtle-Fifth Avenue Subway. 3) Build the Nostrand 23rd Street Subway. 4) Build a *PEOPLE FRIENDLY* CBD with free LRVs instead of cars. 5) The LION would also put a new line on 9th Avenue. Details are pending (at the other end of de cat.) The Republicans say "Drill Here, Drill Now." The Farmers say "Grow Here, Grow Now." The LION says "Build Here, Build NOW." ROAR |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Dave on Tue Aug 19 10:35:04 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 10:18:51 2008. ROTFL! |
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| (669664) | |
Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 19 10:36:26 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 19 10:17:26 2008. I didn't say I disagreed with the idea of seatless trains. Maybe the first five cars could have seats and the rest not... |
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| (669666) | |
Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Aug 19 10:39:34 2008, in response to MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 19 03:13:49 2008. The problem with the proposal is increased dwell time - adding more people to a train without adding more means of efficient ingress and egress is not a sound plan. So the proposal will not work even if one accepts for the sake of argument that this is the right way to go.Secondly, why is it that MTA doesn't try to get at the root cause of the delays and crowding by running more trains? For example, trains on the 6 route spend too much time at stations and not enough time moving because there aren't enough trains being run, despite all indications that several more trains could be run, which would reduce crowding in a perfectly logical manner, without removing seats or adding doors (doing the latter of course removes seats anyway). Of course, I have my suspicion that MTA is already aware that it could run more trains, but that it nonetheless doesn't want to do this because running more trains costs more money - more crews, more trainsets, more supervision, more maintenance, etc. So instead of simply running more 6 trains, MTA tells its passengers to suck it up, wait patiently as the 2nd Av Line is completed probably a century or so after it was supposed to be (who the hell knows when the next big NYCT project after that will begin, let alone be completed), and to stand, so that the agency can save money on the operating side so that it can blow that money on the capital side with CBTC, ATS, creating seatless trains, etc. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Aug 19 10:43:26 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 10:18:51 2008. Ha! |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 19 10:48:48 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Aug 19 10:39:34 2008. "The problem with the proposal is increased dwell time - adding more people to a train without adding more means of efficient ingress and egress is not a sound plan."Removing seats has little to do with this. You'll have moree people, but without seats to push past boarding an alighting will be faster. Observe what happens on airport circulators. "Secondly, why is it that MTA doesn't try to get at the root cause of the delays and crowding by running more trains?" Rolling stock availability? Crew availability? "For example, trains on the 6 route spend too much time at stations and not enough time moving because there aren't enough trains being run, despite all indications that several more trains could be run" Source for this nonsense? |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 11:06:47 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by Dave on Tue Aug 19 10:35:04 2008. You won't be laughing at the Russian Front. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 11:07:38 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Aug 19 10:43:26 2008. We'll see you has the last laugh, 30 Days in the cooler. |
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| (669678) | |
Re:(NO NO NO) MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Danny at 103rd street on Tue Aug 19 11:23:36 2008, in response to MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 19 03:13:49 2008. leave the train the way it is I'm sure if MTA Put way less seats people are going to bitch about it and why must the 6 be the first and give the 6 back its 62s take the tech crap out of the 4,5,6 and give us good equipment |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 19 11:42:01 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by Forest Glen on Tue Aug 19 10:26:06 2008. I agree with the idea that this is a band-aid solution.NYC should have built the IND second and third systems. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by jrf2 on Tue Aug 19 11:43:15 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 11:07:38 2008. I will be relaxing in the tunnels and have LeBo's (sp) cooking !! |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by monorail on Tue Aug 19 12:13:44 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 19 09:50:51 2008. 'likewise if this starts in 2 cars it will be expanded to 4 , then 8 , then all...'you are blowing this out of proportion... we have one a/c'd subway station, waiting for it to be expanded to others........ |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 12:26:10 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by Forest Glen on Tue Aug 19 10:26:06 2008. So I guess riders who pay $81 a month will be treated like cattle?You guess wrong. This is merely a band-aid solution to a larger problem of not being able to run more trains without new technology. Correct! And IMO it's a welcome band-aid solution to a majority of riders. Although you don't necessarily need "new technology" to run more trains. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Aug 19 12:34:24 2008, in response to MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 19 03:13:49 2008. Moo. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Russ on Tue Aug 19 12:43:02 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 12:26:10 2008. IAWTP |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Red Line to Glenmont on Tue Aug 19 12:55:36 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 09:47:08 2008. I also think the cars had thinner walls, and were more spacious inside. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 19 12:58:57 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 19 10:48:48 2008. Instead of running more trains, the subways should have built more routes. The SAS would definately relieve the Lexington Avenue line. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 13:03:32 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by Russ on Tue Aug 19 12:43:02 2008. Thanks Russ. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 19 13:18:40 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by monorail on Tue Aug 19 12:13:44 2008. we have one a/c'd subway station, waiting for it to be expanded to others........They never expand the good things.... |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 19 13:22:10 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by Red Line to Glenmont on Tue Aug 19 12:55:36 2008. I highly doubt if the BMT Standards, D-Types and R 1/9's had thinner walls... |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 19 13:29:14 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 09:47:08 2008. And for people who just ::like:: to sit down, go to the designated cars with seats and stand there as usual waiting for a seat to open up.Which will be harder to get since there will be 160+ less seats per train. Also there is that stupid rule that prohibits people from walking between cars. What if the train is arriving at the station just as you arrive at the platform and you rush in only to realize you are in a seatless car? Expect a lot of people to improvise. Even in a folded up position the seat will still have a small ledge. Expect lots of people to rest on that ledge in a semi-seated position. I know I will! |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 13:34:47 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 19 13:29:14 2008. Which will be harder to get since there will be 160+ less seats per train.I think only a percentage of people will be willing to change their current riding/boarding routines to be able to get a car with a seat. And most of those not changing will be those riding for shorter distances who currently compete for a seat just because it is convenient, IMO. So I think it may be a tad harder to get a seat, but not like 2x as hard. Also there is that stupid rule that prohibits people from walking between cars. What if the train is arriving at the station just as you arrive at the platform and you rush in only to realize you are in a seatless car? It would nice if the seated cars were say every other car, that way you'd never be that far from one. So then you could just run to the next car (since they will be hopefully have exterior markings), or at the next stop you get out and go to the next car. Expect a lot of people to improvise. Even in a folded up position the seat will still have a small ledge. Expect lots of people to rest on that ledge in a semi-seated position. I know I will! They've probably taken that into account when computing the increase in space. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Aug 19 13:37:26 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 19 10:48:48 2008. Removing seats has little to do with this. You'll have moree people, but without seats to push past boarding an alighting will be faster. Observe what happens on airport circulators.Not only would there be no seats to pass, but without seats, there is greater opportunity to increase the number of doors. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue Aug 19 14:13:05 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 19 09:50:51 2008. With the federal ADA law this can't happen.And I'm sure even with the limited amount of cars someone will sue to try to stop it based on the ADA. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 19 14:38:52 2008, in response to MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 19 03:13:49 2008. Isn't this a repost . . . ?And where's JournalSquareK-Car when you really need him?  |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Ken S. on Tue Aug 19 14:41:35 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 19 14:38:52 2008. He has been court-martialed, shot, and sent to the Russian Front. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Subterranean Railway on Tue Aug 19 14:43:30 2008, in response to MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 19 03:13:49 2008. This is a repost of my thoughts on SRO from the previous thread on the subject:A lot of people justify this by citing Tōkyō's system. That's precisely why it wouldn't work here, at least not as proponents envision it. Tōkyō != New York by any stretch of the imagination. Tōkyō passengers were long accustomed to extraordinary crush loading on trains when rolling stock with fold-up seats arrived in the mid-90's with a newly configured 205 series. SRO was a relief because the ratio of standees to seated passengers was so high that the absence of seating made no significant difference. SRO cars also comprised only two cars of the whole trainset (as is being proposed here), so those who absolutely had to sit could do so. New Yorkers have no conception whatsoever of crush loading. It's not valid to compare the results of Japanese SRO configs with the one proposed here, unless our society changes radically. Besides, look at the dwell time of these trains. The TA wants to implement this to increase total capacity. That's not going to happen unless you have dwell times on the order of those Japanese lines', where an 18% increase in train capacity wouldn't adversely affect an already long dwell time. If New York dwell time were left alone (which is impossible in itself, since more passengers would try to squeeze in) SRO would provide for a very small increase in capacity, simply due to a more efficient car layout. I would implement this to make rush hour more bearable for the aforementioned reason, if only passengers would cooperate. Keep dwell time as it is and don't increase ingress/egress capacity (through widening/adding more doors). If passengers were smart, this would serve to disperse them more evenly throughout the car and discourage clustering by the doors. Sadly, I expect that this SRO config would merely create more inefficiently used space in the middle of the car. Tōkyō dealt with this problem through the presence of platform attendants, who not only direct how passengers enter the cars (sometimes with the push for which they are famously known!) but also tell passengers where to wait for most efficient loading. If loaded properly, SRO configurations would theoretically decrease dwell time in a place like New York, since passengers would be forced to disperse more evenly throughout the car. Good luck doing that in New York though. The phrase "step all the way in... use all available doors" is a joke here. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Aug 19 15:19:42 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Aug 19 03:43:15 2008. Back when there were still WF Steinways running on the GC shuttle, the TA proposed eliminating seats on the shuttle since it was only a 1 station ride. At the time, however, it was pointed out that there were door engines under the seats and it would not be possible to remove the seats since there was no place to put the door engines. From the R-44 on up, the newer design door engines are no longer under the seats but behind the swing panel next to the doors, so seat removal on a dedicated shuttle fleet would be possible. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Subterranean Railway on Tue Aug 19 15:28:21 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 19 14:38:52 2008. A repost indeed. I wrote my own repost of my opinions on the subject. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 19 16:34:56 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 13:34:47 2008. We'll have to agree to disagree on this issue.All I know it has given me one more talking point for my website. If the MTA goes through with this plan I will post pictures of the seatless cars side by side with the BMT Bluebird proving that the BMT cared enough about its passengers to develop a car that had mohair upholstered seats, while the MTA treats its passengers worse than a herd of cattle... Priceless!!! 
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Tue Aug 19 18:57:28 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by Russ on Tue Aug 19 12:43:02 2008. People talk about congestion pricing and they talk about eliminating the express bus but at the same time they propose measures to make riding the subway as uncomfortable as possible. It would be ludicrous for a person to stand from Wakefield to Times Square. If crowding has reached the point where you have to eliminate seats in order to cram an extra 18 people into a car with 200 people then that is a manifestation of a larger problem with the system. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Aug 19 21:50:37 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Aug 19 10:36:26 2008. I didn't say I disagreed with the idea of seatless trains. Maybe the first five cars could have seats and the rest not...I am surprised that you, and ADA advocate, would support this discriminatory proposal. BMTLines is right...after their "experiment" the MTA will expand it to other lines. If I were disabled I would sue right off the bat. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 21:53:14 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by Forest Glen on Tue Aug 19 18:57:28 2008. huh???? who will have to stand all the way from wakefield? and what cars have 200 people in them? and if they did, why would adding 18 more be worse than if 18 were added to any other car? and how do you know 18 more would even want to get on that car? and how do you know 18 more even could? and do you think the mta is suggesting they should? where do you get this stuff from??? |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Tue Aug 19 21:53:22 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by Subterranean Railway on Tue Aug 19 14:43:30 2008. if only passengers would cooperateNot exactly. There were riots at suburban and Yamanote line's stations in the sixties. People calmed down a bit after those. Ageo Jiken was probably the worst. |
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Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 19 22:08:09 2008, in response to Re: MTA wants to try seatless trains, posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 19 16:34:56 2008. worse than cattle? where do you get that from? and again, your opinion of treatment, as I have have stated, is, I believe, not what the majority of riders would agree with. |
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