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| Re: June 28, 1956 (641142) | |
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| (642037) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jun 30 13:29:59 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by William A. Padron on Mon Jun 30 11:15:35 2008. The R-16s remained on the Three Stooges Division until Chrystie St. Except, of course, for the 32 units loaned to Jamaica Yard in 1966-67 when R-1/9s assigned to that yard began dropping like flies. |
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| (642039) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 30 13:50:06 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by William A. Padron on Mon Jun 30 11:12:43 2008. Looking at those cars, my first responce is to say I was on them recently. Then I realise they haven't been in service for years! |
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| (642040) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Mon Jun 30 13:52:24 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by William A. Padron on Mon Jun 30 11:15:35 2008. Thanks. Did the R16s have problems when they ran on the Rockaway Line? That could be a reason why they were sent back to the Eastern Division. |
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| (642042) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 30 13:58:02 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by William A. Padron on Mon Jun 30 11:12:43 2008. The gold-painted one, 6318, has some kind of sun symbol painted on its side. What does that signify? |
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| (642065) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Mon Jun 30 14:31:48 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 30 13:58:02 2008. The story I heard for years that R-16 cars #6318 and #6463 were painted gold to acknowledge the 50th Anniversary of the NYC Subway system, and it was sponsored and/or paid by a Fifth Avenue civic business association group. Thus, the letters on the sunburst logo is probably something in connection with Fifth Avenue itself.-William A. Padron ["Beach 98th Street-Playland"] |
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| (642066) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 30 14:35:08 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by William A. Padron on Mon Jun 30 14:31:48 2008. Thank you! |
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| (642076) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jun 30 14:52:52 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by William A. Padron on Mon Jun 30 09:14:10 2008. If you look closely, you will notice that it is atrain of R-9s not R-10s. Examine the roof line closely and also note the window opposite the M/M's vision glass on the end of the IND car. |
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| (642078) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jun 30 14:57:10 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by William A. Padron on Mon Jun 30 14:31:48 2008. There was also an R-17 painted in a matching gold color for the same reason. I think the car number was 6812 but I'm not sure. |
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| (642080) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jun 30 15:02:28 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 30 08:23:50 2008. A train of R-32s ran on the NY Central when they first arrived and were put on display at Grand Central. And before you ask, they were spacially equipped with NYC type under running third rail shoes just for the trip. |
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| (642082) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 30 15:08:01 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 30 15:02:28 2008. I wasn't going to ask about third rail shoes. |
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| (642091) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jun 30 15:43:14 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 30 15:08:01 2008. Somebody might have. |
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| (642092) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Mon Jun 30 15:45:43 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 30 14:52:52 2008. You're probably right that the IND train in the background is indeed a set of R-1/9's. While it is a color photo depicted there, I do have a different black-&-white photo in a bit closer view from the opposite side platform of the LIRR Far Rockaway station that shows a set of R-10's way in the distance, with its distinctive ogee roof design.-William A. Padron ["Beach 36th Street-Edgemere"] |
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| (642094) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 30 15:51:25 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 30 15:43:14 2008. And before you ask,I thought you were refering to me. |
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| (642105) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 30 16:41:57 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jun 30 08:04:16 2008. No flux capacitors required in meatball land ... all it requires is a properly filled out G-2. :) |
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| (642106) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 30 16:42:53 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 30 15:02:28 2008. That one I remember. At the time, NYC was still at 650 volts. |
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| (642107) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 30 16:44:48 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jun 30 08:04:16 2008. No. The R44 set was run at 650 Volts, before the line was upgraded to 750V. The top speed was 87.75 mph and was achiebed on essentially the same voltage found today on the subway. |
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| (642113) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 30 16:55:49 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 30 04:19:19 2008. any photos? |
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| (642118) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 30 17:04:16 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 30 16:55:49 2008. Nope ... not that I'm aware of. Personally, I'm not a photo kinda guy - I prefer first party narratives with embellishments for entertainment myself. That's one of the reasons why I enjoy YOUR war stories so much! |
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| (642119) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 30 17:08:23 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 30 17:04:16 2008. Aw shucks,you almost made me blush. |
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| (642120) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 30 17:10:43 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Jun 29 16:37:37 2008. Just a few hundred feet,I live in rosedale. |
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| (642125) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 30 17:40:28 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jun 30 17:08:23 2008. Heh. You're MOST welcome ... one of these days, we'll hook up yet. :) |
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| (642131) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jun 30 17:56:18 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 30 15:51:25 2008. I was referring to anyone out there who might wonder how it was done. The "you" was a collective "you." |
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| (642134) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jun 30 18:00:43 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by William A. Padron on Mon Jun 30 15:45:43 2008. The other photo was obviously taken when they had a schedule change. When the Rockaways first opened, the E went out there. Then when the power problem was resolved, the A went there. Then over the years the TA flip flopped between sending the Es and As out there until the BMT/IND merge of 1967 when the A became the full time Far Rock service and the E became the rush hour Rock park service until it was replaced by the CC (C) in the late 1970s. |
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| (642135) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jun 30 18:01:10 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by William A. Padron on Mon Jun 30 15:45:43 2008. The other photo was obviously taken when they had a schedule change. When the Rockaways first opened, the E went out there. Then when the power problem was resolved, the A went there. Then over the years the TA flip flopped between sending the Es and As out there until the BMT/IND merge of 1967 when the A became the full time Far Rock service and the E became the rush hour Rock park service until it was replaced by the CC (C) in the late 1970s. |
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| (642140) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jun 30 18:08:25 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by William A. Padron on Mon Jun 30 11:12:43 2008. I read that the R-16 were intermixed with the R-10s in those days on occasion. They were, after all, compatible. |
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| (642184) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by RedbirdR33 on Mon Jun 30 18:50:09 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by Ed Alfonsin on Sun Jun 29 15:25:43 2008. The first passenger-carrying train was a train of R-16s (sorry--it never would have dawned on me to write down the car numbers at the time), witha canvas "Rockaway / Here We Come" sign as seen in those publicity pics. (I think it said "Rockaway," but it could have been "Wave Crest.") Ed: Nice to hear from you. Here's the numbers of the R-16 Special. 6311,6335,6337,6341,6368,6453,6467,6479,6484,6490. This was probably the first time that the R-16's ran as a ten car train. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (642190) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 30 18:55:59 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 30 17:56:18 2008. Oh OK. |
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Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by RedbirdR33 on Mon Jun 30 18:58:19 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 30 04:19:19 2008. I recall that *something* was run out on LIRR at 750 volts - not sure if it was a set of 32's or 44's ... but whatever ran out there did suffer pretty substantial squirrel-caging of the traction motors, so severely that the teeyay decided NEVER to do it again. :)The R-32's ran under there own power for a demo run on the New York Central. The R-44 did a test run on the LIRR. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (642195) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by RedbirdR33 on Mon Jun 30 18:58:19 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 30 04:19:19 2008. I recall that *something* was run out on LIRR at 750 volts - not sure if it was a set of 32's or 44's ... but whatever ran out there did suffer pretty substantial squirrel-caging of the traction motors, so severely that the teeyay decided NEVER to do it again. :)The R-32's ran under there own power for a demo run on the New York Central. The R-44 did a test run on the LIRR. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (642198) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 30 19:00:12 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 30 18:00:43 2008. And IIRC the CC or C trains stopped going to Rockaway Park in 1980 when the HH started going there. |
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| (642202) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 30 19:05:13 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by RedbirdR33 on Mon Jun 30 18:58:19 2008. I say the R-44 train did a test run on the LIRR Main Line from Woodside to Jamaica. |
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| (642232) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jun 30 19:30:14 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 30 19:00:12 2008. The CC trains did not stop going to Rock Pk in 1980. I was the midnight zone trainmaster there during the winter of 1983/84 and the CCs were definitely still going out there then. On the midnights, the "round robin" service was still operating utilizing R-38s, 40s and 44s. Around that time, the TA had suspended the use of the HH designation and the Rock shuttles carried A side signs. In the early AMs, Sb A rockaway shuttles went directly to far Rock and CC put ins ran south to Rock Pk and back north a through CC trains to Bedford Pk. |
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| (642234) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jun 30 19:39:43 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jun 30 18:08:25 2008. That's correct. The ususal consist of a mixed train was 2 R-10s at one end and the rest of the train R-16s. I remember long after the R-16s were returned to the BMT, seeing a single R-16 as the 9th car of a N/B A train at High St. I don't recall the exact year but since I was in college at the time it had to have been betwwen 1962 and 1966. During the time there were R-16s on the IND, there were some R-10s on the BMT Eastern Division. They were usually used on the Jamaica Line but I recall seeing a train of R-10s one Sunday evening on the 14 St Line. By the way when the R types first went to the BMT, the end doors were kept locked between the cars as they were on the steels even though it wasn't necessary. It was only after the R-27s had been in service for about a year that the TA decided that since the 60 ft R types did not have the same end excess as the steels it was safe to allow the doors on the R types to be unlocked and the passengers allowed to pass between cars. It's a far cry from the inane policy of the current MTA board which in its infinite "wisdom" decided to prohibit passage between cars even though the NTTs were specifically designed to allow for inter car movement. |
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Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by MJF on Mon Jun 30 20:26:44 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 30 19:30:14 2008. I enjoyed working the round robin. Those were the only jobs that could get me to pick a midnight trick. If they were still around I would probably be working it. |
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Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Mon Jun 30 20:49:45 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 30 16:42:53 2008. That one I remember. At the time, NYC was still at 650 volts.Try this on for size !  From nycsubway.org Bill "Newkirk" |
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| (642255) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Jun 30 20:57:30 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 30 19:39:43 2008. I was wondering when somebody was gonna point out that the end doors on all NTTs are ADA compliant!As for crazy car assignments, when the R-46s developed serious problems around 1979-80, they exchanged assignments with the R-10s, with the "thundering Tens" going out to Jamaica, where their usual assignment was the E train, and the 46s going to Rock Park as the CC train...with green-diamond end signs, IIRC. I was born and grew up in Far Rockaway just two blocks from the Mott Avenue term, and I can tell you definitively, EVERY R-type (except the R-11/34s) in the inventory has visited Far Rock at one time or another...my earliest memories are of Arnines and VERY shiny, new Slants...I know I'm getting old when the Slants are being given to King Neptune... Too bad we can't have a R-10 Nostalgia trip with the R-10s painted in the "Ocean" paint scheme (white over aqua with aqua roofs), as we blast the eardrums of a modern generation...*wishful thinking*...I never did understand why the R-10s were so boomimgly loud when the R-12/14 cars were not... |
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Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 30 21:14:20 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by Newkirk Images on Mon Jun 30 20:49:45 2008. We have one here, as well as an S motor out on the rails they tore up a couple of years ago blocking the bicycle path ... see what a nice bicycle path (top pic) it is? :( 
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Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jun 30 21:19:20 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by MJF on Mon Jun 30 20:26:44 2008. Worked them too. Sweet jobs. Used to get RDO's on them back in the day when I had a midnight RDO relief on the D. Was nice to be cool on those hot summer nights. |
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| (642292) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jun 30 22:02:24 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 30 19:05:13 2008. And it was still accelerating when it broke the speed record.One more lousy 1/4 mph...... |
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| (642293) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jun 30 22:03:54 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by RedbirdR33 on Mon Jun 30 18:50:09 2008. Half GE, half WH. |
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Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Mon Jun 30 22:07:31 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by MainR3664 on Sun Jun 29 23:04:28 2008. LINKED |
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Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Jun 30 22:30:06 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jun 30 22:02:24 2008. And I'll bet Jamaica Station wasn't too far ahead. |
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| (642414) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Jul 1 00:56:28 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Jun 30 20:57:30 2008. BLUE DIAMOND CC SIGNS... |
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| (642524) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Tue Jul 1 08:47:41 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Jun 30 20:57:30 2008. >>EVERY R-type (except the R-11/34s) in the inventory has visited Far Rock at one time or another...<<Actually, one four-car R-11 train set visited the Rockaway Line, including at Far Rockaway, on a 1967 fantrip. To whit... R-11's [Fan Trip Train] and R-10's [IND "A" Train], Far Rockaway - 11/18/1967. >>Too bad we can't have a R-10 Nostalgia trip with the R-10s painted in the "Ocean" paint scheme (white over aqua with aqua roofs), as we blast the eardrums of a modern generation...*wishful thinking*...I never did understand why the R-10s were so boomimgly loud when the R-12/14 cars were not...<< The reason for that, and it had been documented in some subway and railfan literature that I read over the years, is the R-10's were that *loud* was probably because of the heavier, noiser replacement trucks they had received after their original, quieter ones with the rubber inserts were showing defective hairline cracks. The undercarriages on the fleet had all been replaced within the first year of operation. And the lament continues to this day still that there is no R-10 museum train, which I always be reminded constantly every time I see or hear the news that the R-1/9's or IRT SMEE's are basically the only reliable museum trains that could be operated with no problems. By the way, there are only just two R-10 cars in existence today, #3184 and #3189, and I do not forsee each them running yet in the near future. -William A. Padron ["Wash.Hts.-8th Av.Exp."] |
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| (642540) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jul 1 09:37:36 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by William A. Padron on Mon Jun 30 09:14:10 2008. Are you sure its an R9, as opposed to any member of the R1-9 class of cars?I'm not being sarcastic- you're one of the experts on such things here, and I'm kinda interested in pics of R7 &R9 on the IND...most of the pics only show them after they moved to the Eastern Division.... |
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| (642542) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jul 1 09:39:50 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jul 1 09:37:36 2008. Slight correction- I was actually responding to randyo with my R9 question.No offense, please, Mr. Padron. |
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| (642549) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Tue Jul 1 10:15:57 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jul 1 09:37:36 2008. Well, it has been determined that the color photo does show it is indeed a train of R-1/9's, not R-10's as I had originally thought. Many of the earlier Rockaway Line photos, that I have seen from the Railroad Avenue Enterprises collection, that showed the fleet in particular during the first year of operation most likely used R-4's with some R-1's mixed in, or whatever the "E" line car assignment had offered.Now, if you want to see picture images of the R-7 to R-9 cars on the IND Rockaway Line, as they had been seen there during the 1960's-early 1970's, here are some examples... R-7 #1407, Aqueduct-North Conduit Avenue ["HH" Train], 9/9/1972. R-7 #1409, North Channel Bridge ["HH" Train], 9/10/1972. R-7 #1498, Rockaway Park Yard, 5/18/1969. R-7 #1518, Rockaway Park Yard, 5/18/1969. R-9 #1662, in vicinity of Aqueduct-North Conduit Avenue ["HH" Train], No Date. R-9 #1773, Mott Avenue-Far Rockaway ["HH" Train], September 1966. However, I came across this photo taken in 1957 north of Broad Channel station, and I do believe that this is indeed an R-10 train in use, not an R-1/9 type as labeled in the photo caption. The evidence is that one of the side vents can be seen sticking out of its ogee roof. I will let the reader be the absolute true judge on this one... IND Rockaway Train [R-1/9 or R-10???], 11/29/1957. -William A. Padron ["Mott Av.-Far Rockway"] |
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Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Tue Jul 1 10:17:29 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jul 1 09:39:50 2008. Oh, that's okay...you're forgiven!-William A. Padron ["Broad Channel"] |
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Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Jul 1 15:41:42 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jul 1 09:39:50 2008. Although, all the R-1/9 cars are often generically referred to as "R-9s," in this case, the car in the photo may very well be one of the R-7s or an actual R-9 since those cars were assigned to the Queens lines at that time. Of course, there were some R-4s assigned to Queens as well but the predominant cars assigned to Queens were the highest numbers of the R-7 through 9 series. |
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| (642808) | |
Re: June 28, 1956 |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Jul 1 15:50:21 2008, in response to Re: June 28, 1956, posted by William A. Padron on Tue Jul 1 10:15:57 2008. That last one is definitely an R-10. Not only does the roof line give it away but the storm door window is smaller than it would have been on an R-1 through 4 and there is no window on the end panel of the car opposite the M/M's cab. R-6s through 9s had a split storm door window so it's definitely not one of those. I never recall seeing any R-1s in Queens, but there were some R-4s and as I mentioned in my other post, R-7s and 9s. In fact, if memory serves me, all the actual R-9s were in Queens along with the highest numbered R-7s and 7As. |
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