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| Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? (606210) | |
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| (606210) | |
Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by error46146 on Wed Apr 23 20:51:26 2008 I've noticed that the R142, R143 and R160 have similar designsthe front is black with the red sign on top, the sides are the same on the 143/160, the inside is the white walls with the purple chairs and the two windows at the end of the B car why is the MTA doing this? will i expect the next new train to have the same design? i think it makes the subway boring having everything look exactly the same and there is no variety like this |
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| (606212) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by (3) Livonia Ave. Local on Wed Apr 23 20:53:43 2008, in response to Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by error46146 on Wed Apr 23 20:51:26 2008. First thought: Same fleets=easier to maintain. Not sure if that's a fact or not at all. |
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| (606213) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Wed Apr 23 20:54:49 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by (3) Livonia Ave. Local on Wed Apr 23 20:53:43 2008. They are mechanically different and incompatible, though they look the same.SMEEs looked different, but ARE compatible, and have interchangeable parts. |
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| (606218) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Wed Apr 23 20:58:43 2008, in response to Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by error46146 on Wed Apr 23 20:51:26 2008. If you go back, there was a time when MTA bought the cars which would later be known as redbirds. All these cars sort of look the same too (R16-R36). But after all, those cars did look better than todays stock, and they were more original, and had more character. Had little strips of aluminum here, some lines here and there, giving a sense of style and character. but then came the Brightliners, the 38s, the Slants, and the 42s. THAT is LOTS of variety.I agree, the NTTS all look the same, have no style, or character. They are very bland. |
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| (606219) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Apr 23 20:59:57 2008, in response to Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by error46146 on Wed Apr 23 20:51:26 2008. The same company, Antenna Design of Manhattan, did the overall exterior/interior design on all those cars. |
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| (606223) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Wed Apr 23 21:05:23 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Apr 23 20:59:57 2008. And they should fire the designers, they used the exact same designs for the 160s as 143s. What design? Thats a BS design.Such a BAD design. Not worthy of recognition, and is a shameful one. |
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| (606251) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by error46146 on Wed Apr 23 21:45:30 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Wed Apr 23 21:05:23 2008. i couldn't agree more, they need to have a different design for each train in my opinion, no two models should look the same |
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| (606253) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by error46146 on Wed Apr 23 21:46:15 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Wed Apr 23 20:58:43 2008. the slants have the most character and style, there is no other subway car like ittoo bad their the ones going to the fishies first :( |
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| (606259) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Wed Apr 23 21:55:55 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by error46146 on Wed Apr 23 21:46:15 2008. Slants were hideous then, and hideous now. A waste of metal for extravagant embellishment. |
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| (606262) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by metropod on Wed Apr 23 22:00:29 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by error46146 on Wed Apr 23 21:46:15 2008. The slants are being held together by duck tape, and this was before the 160s came. You call that charactor? Being an inch from falling apart? |
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| (606389) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by monorail on Thu Apr 24 00:06:38 2008, in response to Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by error46146 on Wed Apr 23 20:51:26 2008. 'i think it makes the subway boring having everything look exactly the same and there is no variety like this' perhaps in 20-25 years someone in upper management will come up with an idea to have something that looks different |
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| (606567) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by P.Opus on Thu Apr 24 09:34:24 2008, in response to Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by error46146 on Wed Apr 23 20:51:26 2008. Industrial design isn't free. Would you pay more in your fare just to see different trains? Answer as if you weren't a railfan... |
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| (606570) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 24 09:44:36 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by P.Opus on Thu Apr 24 09:34:24 2008. The same was said when the former redbirds came, the R27-30's, etc....."Everything looks the same". It was a different "same", but "same" just the same. People never like the new stuff. Then the new stuff becomes the nostalic stuff over time, and people hate the new stuff that comes later. It's the same cycle, different time. |
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| (606584) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Thu Apr 24 10:17:08 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 24 09:44:36 2008. No, not really. This new stuff is more bland and ugly than anything before. Like i said, even those redbirds had character, had some strips here, some lines there, giving them a more characteristic look. |
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| (606592) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by joe c on Thu Apr 24 10:27:53 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by (3) Livonia Ave. Local on Wed Apr 23 20:53:43 2008. That's about it,they want every car to look the same so it'll be easyto maintain the cars. til next time |
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| (606617) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by avid reader on Thu Apr 24 11:20:06 2008, in response to Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by error46146 on Wed Apr 23 20:51:26 2008. Similar make you spare parts inventory smaller, therefore less expensive.Now think hard, who pays for everything in the long run? avid |
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| (606618) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 24 11:22:18 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Thu Apr 24 10:17:08 2008. Uh huh. |
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| (606620) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Thu Apr 24 11:25:11 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Thu Apr 24 10:17:08 2008. Thanks for your subjective opinion. |
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| (606646) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Thu Apr 24 12:24:54 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Thu Apr 24 10:17:08 2008. You're just proving our point even better.
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| (606681) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Thu Apr 24 14:20:28 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 24 11:22:18 2008. The cars themselves had mor character. All Arnines looked the same, but had more character than the NTTs. Arnines had more character than redbirds, but the Brightliners and the 38s have about the same amount of character as Arnines, but a bit less.This new stuff has about 0 character. The 142 have a BIT due to the red parts at the front. The new IND stock is pure bull. |
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| (606683) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 24 14:25:49 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Thu Apr 24 14:20:28 2008. Okay. |
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| (606690) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Thu Apr 24 14:40:49 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 24 14:25:49 2008. But then you have the Brightliners, the 38s, the SLANTS, the MODs, the 42s, that look like SLANT MODS. All those look different. then the 44s, and 46s, which look different from other cars, but look alike. Then there are the 68s, which also look different.Only for a period between 1950 and 1965 did the MTA buy the redbird type cars. Mostly for the IRT. The IND still had the Arnines, and Artens, but bought a few redbird type cars like the R30s for extra cars. Then the IRT eventually bought the R62s, which were OK. BUT, those redbirds had more character as individual cars than todays BS NTT cars. Like isaid, a line here, and there, a curve, a design, yet it was in harmony, and gave character. NTTs don't have character due to lack of harmony. Not to mention, they are poorly built cars. |
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| (606691) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Thu Apr 24 14:41:26 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Thu Apr 24 12:24:54 2008. Not really. Don't skew the facts. |
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| (606699) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by railbus63 on Thu Apr 24 15:02:15 2008, in response to Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by error46146 on Wed Apr 23 20:51:26 2008. It's no different than the 1960's and 1970's, when the R-40M's, R-42's, R-44's and R-46's on the subway and the M-1 Metropolitan and M-2 Cosmopolitan commuter rail cars all shared a common 'family' look. |
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| (606706) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Apr 24 15:28:45 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Apr 23 21:55:55 2008. IAWTP. |
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| (606707) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Apr 24 15:30:40 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by error46146 on Wed Apr 23 21:45:30 2008. And what was wrong with the BMT steels, the R-1/9s and all the IRT prewar rolling stock except for the 1939 World's Fairs? |
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| (606708) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Thu Apr 24 15:32:03 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by railbus63 on Thu Apr 24 15:02:15 2008. It *is* different. The Slants, the mods and the 44/46s all look different, except the 44/46s, which are nearly identical. |
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| (606709) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Apr 24 15:33:58 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Thu Apr 24 15:32:03 2008. The R-40Ms thru the R-68s actually are just variations of the same Sundberg - Farrar design. |
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| (606712) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Thu Apr 24 15:42:14 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by randyo on Thu Apr 24 15:30:40 2008. That is a different concept there. All those cars had more character. |
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| (606713) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Apr 24 15:44:03 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by randyo on Thu Apr 24 15:33:58 2008. The R110B also shared this look.The new NTT B Division cars also share this look to a degree. |
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| (606714) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Apr 24 15:44:31 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Thu Apr 24 15:42:14 2008. As in what? |
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| (606717) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Apr 24 15:58:35 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Apr 23 21:55:55 2008. I agree..Yes, when NEW..they were "different".."exciting" was the word of the day,I suppose...until they showed their true colors. But that was more of the TA's fault than most...while it was a good attempt..if they would have stuck with the 5 car set concept..the idea might have worked out..[like they did later with the 75ft cars and those that came later..] In any case..there is no real need to bash the 40's..they were quick like jack rabbits for years untill the GOH PROGRAM gutted them...an I never had any complaints..PLUS it had a KICK ASS RAIL FAN WINDOW that could never be beat. All in all..they were a mixed bag...not too hot, not too cold. |
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| (606719) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Apr 24 16:03:22 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Thu Apr 24 14:40:49 2008. No..the "redbirds" were basically the same SPARTAN design..built TOUGH like a FORD F150 PICKUP..to withstand the daily ponding the TA knew they would receive."SPARTANS ..WHATS YOUR PROFESSION...?!" |
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| (606728) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Thu Apr 24 16:17:25 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by Edwards! on Thu Apr 24 15:58:35 2008. PLUS it had a KICK ASS RAIL FAN WINDOW that could never be beat.OK, you've got me there - I loved those slant R40s when I was a kid for that reason; you didn't have to be too tall to enjoy that! (In fact, if you ARE too tall, you won't enjoy that). But I always found them to be ugly trains, and as I've got older and taller, I lamented the loss of space and, well, the looks that I thought only its designer could love. |
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| (606731) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Thu Apr 24 16:18:59 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by randyo on Thu Apr 24 15:33:58 2008. The R-40Ms thru the R-68s actually are just variations of the same Sundberg - Farrar design.Is that design related to that for the M1/2s? |
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| (606744) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Apr 24 16:45:19 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by trainsarefun on Thu Apr 24 16:17:25 2008. LOL!True indeed. The very worse of it came during the 80's..when you were downright frightened to see one of those rolling rat traps coming down the tracks! |
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| (606746) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by error46146 on Thu Apr 24 16:46:27 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Apr 23 21:55:55 2008. no, the slants are futuristic and fast and awesome, and plus it has the best railfan window |
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| (606747) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by error46146 on Thu Apr 24 16:47:50 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by metropod on Wed Apr 23 22:00:29 2008. that's the MTA's fault not the train's faultany train can be broken and held together by duck tape, i've seen R46's that have duck tape all over the floor |
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| (606750) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by error46146 on Thu Apr 24 16:49:49 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Thu Apr 24 15:32:03 2008. the R44 and R46 is the same thing except the R44 has an extra chair at the cab end and also it has the window next to the door and the sideways chair and the R46 doesn't have the window |
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| (606800) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Apr 24 18:20:52 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by trainsarefun on Thu Apr 24 16:18:59 2008. That's correct. They all share a certain MTA "family" resemblance. |
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| (606822) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Apr 24 18:52:31 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by error46146 on Wed Apr 23 21:45:30 2008. And of course, you're personally willing to pay for the added cost of maintaining dissimilar fleets.Hey, if your wallet is up for it, I'm fine with it too. |
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| (606833) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by Broadway Buffer on Thu Apr 24 19:19:44 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by error46146 on Thu Apr 24 16:49:49 2008. And a non-sliding cab door, a different break release sound, a different armrest, a gray stripe along the side ... shall I continue??? :-) |
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| (606836) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by Broadway Buffer on Thu Apr 24 19:24:45 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by joe c on Thu Apr 24 10:27:53 2008. And supposedly the new cars were designed for easier maintenance. |
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| (606842) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by Broadway Buffer on Thu Apr 24 19:31:22 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Thu Apr 24 10:17:08 2008. Maybe it's a good thing these R-160s are going to the Eastern Division. The graffiti, scratchiti, and vandalism that plagued the R-42s will eventually show up on them too. As Railman would say, once the warrantee expires - everything goes to hell. So they'll have plenty of "character" over time. :-) |
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| (606865) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Apr 24 20:09:28 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by Broadway Buffer on Thu Apr 24 19:24:45 2008. They are, in fact. |
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| (606877) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by R30A on Thu Apr 24 20:34:35 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Apr 24 18:52:31 2008. The R142/R142As look similar.They arent very similar partwise. |
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| (607112) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Fri Apr 25 06:51:57 2008, in response to Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by error46146 on Wed Apr 23 20:51:26 2008. They alter the designs with each passing decade. I would guess that any car classes created after 2010 will look different from the R-160. |
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| (607158) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Fri Apr 25 09:30:31 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by Broadway Buffer on Thu Apr 24 19:24:45 2008. Think back to when TA had to stock 8 to 10 different types of door panel glass alone before they shared the same size for GOH. |
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| (607232) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by 5119 on Fri Apr 25 13:26:33 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by randyo on Thu Apr 24 15:28:45 2008. Not to mention the fact that the shovel nose limits their seating to 44, the same as the IRT cars, plus they were known to have the most uncomfortable seat in transit history |
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| (607257) | |
Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ? |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Apr 25 15:20:36 2008, in response to Re: Why do the R142 R143 and R160 have similar designs ?, posted by Broadway Buffer on Thu Apr 24 19:19:44 2008. The reason for the silver grey stripe on the side is that the R-44s had a conventional steel belt area instead of stainless steel to allow for the original blue painted stripe to adhere better. This was not carried throuigh on the R-46s which are all stainless steel construction. During GOH when the blue stripe was eliminated, all the SIRTOA R-44s ad 4 NYCT R-44s received a stailess steel overlay where the blure stripe was. As a cost saving measure, the rest of the R-44s had the former blue areea painted a sort of silver color to attempt to match the stainless steel which it doesn't really do. |
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