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| Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction (582530) | |
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| (583580) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 9 12:45:11 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 9 12:35:16 2008. LIRR Far Rockaway Branch takes a circuitous route, so it's probably not the right running time comparison, especially since it goes through Jamaica.LIRR via the Rockaway Branch would almost certainly have to be quicker than via the Far Rockaway Branch. I do agree with you and others, however, that the ridership may be unable to pay railroad fares. Then again, I do also think that MTA should be offering better deals on monthly ticket/metrocard combos so that instead of extending the subway, they could just use present infrastructure. |
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| (583582) | |
Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by FarRock on Sun Mar 9 12:47:57 2008, in response to Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 22:13:06 2008. If only building a subway were as easy as Trainz an extra tunnel can be built under Queens Blvd along with a new Roosevelt Av Station and the tunnel can connect to the (F) somewhere before 21 St QB. |
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| (583584) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Mar 9 12:49:27 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Mar 9 10:05:36 2008. Where the hell would LRT go? Only if it went over the 59th St and into the old 2nd Av trolley terminal would I say LRT works. Otherwise, nu uh. BRT!? GTFOH! |
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| (583586) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 9 12:51:25 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Mar 8 17:59:57 2008. The only connection could be to the Queens Local line. Perhaps it's time to add some tracks to the Queens Blvd line. Like 2 express tracks underneath the current ROW. This could be done without major service interruptions, and said tracks could veer off in Rego Park and run south to the Rockaways. On the other side, they could feed the 63rd St. tunnel, making it far more useful. F to the Rockaways via 63rd, V replaces F out to 179th, express between QP and Forest Hills, and the G is restored to Continental. Crazy? Crazy expensive? |
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| (583587) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Mar 9 12:52:44 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 9 10:06:07 2008. I'll give you the simple answer: They're from north shore long island. Not the brightest bunch. Just go to Great Neck and watch these idiots try to drive. I work at the corner of Barstow and N Station Plaza, I'm amazed there hasn't been an accident there yet. Not because it's a dangerous intersection, just b/c these people have no clue WTF to do when they see another car |
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| (583588) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Mar 9 12:55:09 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 09:14:03 2008. Honestly, I think the major boost in service is gonna depend on both ESA AND a major reworking of the interlockings surrounding Jamaica(including Queens). I'm surprised the folks run the switches don't get an annurism for this shit |
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| (583590) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 9 12:55:12 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 8 19:31:50 2008. Put a 2-track subway underneath the ROW. Freight on top, commuters underneath. Again, expensive. I know. |
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| (583591) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Mar 9 12:55:30 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Mar 8 22:08:24 2008. Ozone Park is for NYCT to serve. LIRR basically serves Nassau and Suffolk, with a few stops in the city, mostly because they were already there. I do not see LIRR opening any new stops in the city. Even Sunnyside is a mystery to me.ROAR |
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| (583592) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Mar 9 12:56:18 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Mar 8 21:11:55 2008. I'd support LIRR on that line only if it went to Howard Beach. No Rockaways. Still, I'm coming around to the subway option, unless LRT can run over the 59th St into the old trolley terminal |
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| (583593) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Mar 9 12:58:47 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 9 12:55:12 2008. Hence why it aint happenin.If they could squeeze LRT onto the ROW, then run LRT down the Bushwick, over the Willy B, and into the old trolley terminal....(i can't believe I just said that) |
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| (583594) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Mar 9 12:59:23 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by monorail on Sun Mar 9 01:33:58 2008. Non-starter. |
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| (583595) | |
Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Mar 9 12:59:29 2008, in response to Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by FarRock on Sun Mar 9 12:47:57 2008. Queens Boulevard is a rather broad highway. There is plenty of room to build a new subway tunnel next to the existing one, without disturbing it. But why bother. Build a new line under Northern Boulevard. This will take pressure off of QB and provide other riders with better access to the service.ROAR |
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| (583596) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by FarRock on Sun Mar 9 12:59:43 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Mar 9 12:56:18 2008. Theres no reason to send the LIRR to Howard Beach, especially on NYCT tracks. Its not like the LIRR can getta refund on what they sold in the past. |
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| (583597) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 9 13:00:25 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 09:15:23 2008. It already gets extensive use at night, if you go by how often and how late I hear those engine horns blowing through 80th St. One way to relieve the pressure is to connect the NYCR to the main line in Elmhurst. Move the interchanges away from Fresh Pond up to Oak Point. |
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| (583598) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 9 13:00:59 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 9 12:43:33 2008. You mean the Main Line? I think you're talking about the south side of HALL. |
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| (583599) | |
Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 9 13:03:14 2008, in response to Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Mar 9 12:59:29 2008. Tunnels nowadays are built via TBM, for the greatest part. That's a lot of expense via either route.But if one were to dig another tunnel, I agree that we should pick a different route, while we're spending all of that money. But before we even get there, let's work on maximizing present capacity. |
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| (583600) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 9 13:03:28 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Mar 9 12:58:47 2008. I've already added a Crosstown LRT line running from Bay Ridge to LIC and Hunts Point to my fantasy maps, utilizing the Bay Ridge, Lower Montauk and NYCR. Now that's absolute fantasy. |
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| (583601) | |
Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by FarRock on Sun Mar 9 13:03:29 2008, in response to Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Mar 9 12:59:29 2008. The route should still have a transfer point to the Queens Blvd IND. |
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| (583602) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Mar 9 13:03:37 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 8 23:08:20 2008. HEY! *I* make the ideas. *YOU* fund them.ROAR |
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| (583603) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 9 13:06:18 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Mar 9 12:52:44 2008. It's the same thing in other places. It's an automatic trigger between 'express' and 'faster trip', which is only justified based on contextual analysis. |
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| (583604) | |
Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by FarRock on Sun Mar 9 13:07:25 2008, in response to Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 9 13:03:14 2008. I think it should still connect to the SAS via 63rd St. There should be enough capacity on the SAS for another route on one of its levels. |
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| (583605) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 9 13:07:25 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 9 12:45:11 2008. LIRR via the Rockaway Branch would almost certainly have to be quicker than via the Far Rockaway Branch. I agree, but not more than 10-15 minutes faster, tops. |
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| (583607) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 9 13:08:40 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by FarRock on Sun Mar 9 12:42:04 2008. True, but can I afford to spend 3 times the amount on my commute to save a few minutes? |
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| (583608) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 9 13:09:54 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 9 12:34:12 2008. On the Far Rock branch, ridership is skyrocketing. It currently gets 7 TPH peak, 4 off (weekdays). |
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| (583610) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 9 13:11:36 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Mar 9 12:55:30 2008. Even Sunnyside is a mystery to me.I think that Sunnyside can be explained by the fact of the yard there - so it's going to be used by railroad employees, and by the fact that it's useful as a carrot just in case the community bitches too loudly about HAROLD reconfiguration, or Sunnyside Yards and ESA work. |
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| (583611) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by FarRock on Sun Mar 9 13:13:12 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 9 13:08:40 2008. I'm talkin bout the current Far Rock branch. I'm against bringing LIRR trains back to their old tracks. |
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| (583612) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 9 13:20:19 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 9 13:07:25 2008. There's no way that I can speak meaningfully to that figure, really, but even if it's right, that's 20-30 minutes per day. Five days per week, that's 100-150 minutes, maybe 48 working weeks in a year, that's 4800-7200 minutes per year, or between 3-5 days per year. Over 20 years, that's between two and three months less, roughly speaking, spent commuting.I think I only did this because the numbers are easy to multiply. |
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| (583615) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Mar 9 13:22:51 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 13:26:13 2008. But you'd still have G, R and V service from 63rd Drive on. Only at 67th Avenue, would you have the loss of either the R or V. QB Local riders headed for Midtown would probably pass up the G, as they did before the V went into service. Though I do agree that Roosevelt will overwhelmed with additional riders from the Rockaways transferring from the locals to the expresses. |
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| (583616) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 9 13:23:52 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 9 13:09:54 2008. Yes, but not from Far Rockaway itself, from the informal ticket peeking survey, right? |
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| (583621) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 9 13:29:38 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Mar 9 13:22:51 2008. But the G service would pretty much just be a feeder, especially to the overburdened express routes.Unless Rockaways ridership were very minimal, Roosevelt Av would be very crowded. |
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| (583625) | |
Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Mar 9 13:37:28 2008, in response to Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by FarRock on Sun Mar 9 13:07:25 2008. IAWTP |
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| (583626) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Mar 9 13:39:22 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Mar 9 12:55:30 2008. Add Corona to your list. They mentioned bringing that station back some time ago....or was it Elmhurst....? |
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| (583628) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Mar 9 13:40:06 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by FarRock on Sun Mar 9 12:59:43 2008. I just like the idea of another Airtrain connection. Hey, if LIRR is gonna be there, why not? But still, LIRR on this line just isn't gonna work |
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| (583629) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Mar 9 13:41:53 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 9 13:00:25 2008. But then where does the yard go? You gotta have a spot for the trains that CSX brings in to be broken up to be sent to the correct branch lines. Sorry, Elmhurst connection doesn't really work. |
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| (583630) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Mar 9 13:42:35 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 9 13:03:28 2008. Ludicrious! All 3 lines going to LRT...BAH! |
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| (583631) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Sun Mar 9 13:44:56 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 7 18:06:28 2008. The NIMBY's will never allow it. |
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| (583636) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by FarRock on Sun Mar 9 13:46:30 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Mar 9 13:40:06 2008. Airtrain is even more stupid than the LIRR. Its a whole notha system. |
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| (583638) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 9 13:46:43 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Mitch45 on Sun Mar 9 13:44:56 2008. You're assuming that Sander can fund this while running MTA's present operations adequately. Let's see if even THAT happens. |
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| (583641) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Mar 9 13:50:49 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 9 12:51:25 2008. Crazy expensive, definitely. Wouldn't the new tracks have to be built very far down to avoid interrupting existing Queens Blvd service? Wouldn't Super Express along the LIRR Main Line ROW accomplish the same thing, for less money? |
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| (583668) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Mar 9 15:09:26 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 9 12:37:12 2008. Eh?Haven't you heard. Global Warming has been repealed; there is more snow pack in Siberia and in China than there has been in 50 years, and the ice has returned to the polar ice cap. The Polar Bears love it, the bi-polar bears are not so sure. Al Gore is being sued by the founder of the Weather Channel for fraud r/t his carbon offset schemes. ROAR |
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| (583672) | |
Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Mar 9 15:19:40 2008, in response to Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 9 13:03:14 2008. But before we even get there, let's work on maximizing present capacity.Me thinks we got there several years (decades) ago. ROAR |
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| (583674) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Mar 9 15:26:53 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Mar 9 12:49:27 2008. Where the hell would LRT go?Woodhaven/Queens Blvds. But that would be dependent on the Super Express (in one form or another), so you can see how much I would prioritize the Woodhaven Blvd corridor. |
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| (583678) | |
Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 9 15:30:25 2008, in response to Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Mar 9 15:19:40 2008. You think wrong, then, although I wasn't clear in my phrasing.Speaking of physical capacity limits of the system, have they been reached yet in all cases? No - they have not been reached; they have only been reached in certain special cases, e.g., Queens Blvd Line's express tracks. For example, on the Broadway Line, as both of us has suggested, route changes could bring about more efficiency without requiring physical alterations to the infrastructure. |
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| (583686) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun Mar 9 15:38:52 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 8 19:32:47 2008. I think those are for Lower Manhattan Access.Yes it is. But the politicos are trying to sell it to the public as a one-seat ride to JFK. An (A) train into JFK would achieve the same result BUT it would also give NYP, PABT, Columbus Circle, 125th St and the GW Bus Terminal this same one-seat ride instead of just Lower Manhattan. And for a lot cheaper. They would just have to build a ramp from the (A) express tracks before HB unto the AirTrain structure. (assuming the PA would let them) |
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| (583692) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun Mar 9 15:51:26 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Mar 8 20:17:50 2008. Yeah the running time would be higher. Doing it anyway would acheive a major result though:Getting rid of bus lines that are sending people in the affected neighborhoods to the QB anyway and getting people out of cars that are doing the same. Trains are better, especially since that area doesn't have any and a future Queens SAS has got to go somewhere. Having it run down the Old Rock or having the (V) run down it with the SAS to 71st instead would give Queens 2nd Av access. A Super-Express would be much better though because of it being much faster. |
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| (583696) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun Mar 9 15:57:39 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 8 21:40:16 2008. The Nancy via 63rd could work in the absence of Phase III. Its actually a good plan. But once Phase III is complete I say make it SAS from Rock Park to Hanover Sq. The problem is that without Phase III, the (N) may be needed to supplement the (Q) on the Stubway. |
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| (583697) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun Mar 9 16:02:16 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by monorail on Sun Mar 9 01:33:58 2008. same tracks during the overnight hoursNot good. You would be asking the locals to absorb all the freight noise at night while not having 24/7 subway service. I would have to agree with NIMBYs on that one. A lot of freight companies wouldn't even bother with such strict restrictions. They would take to the roads. |
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| (583701) | |
Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Mar 9 16:06:37 2008, in response to Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by FarRock on Sun Mar 9 13:03:29 2008. transfer points are good, NEW TRUNKS are BETTER! |
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| (583705) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun Mar 9 16:10:26 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Mar 8 20:09:46 2008. Interesting....but still kinda useless considering no where in either system are 3 car trains useful unless they go express to the CBDIndeed. That's why I would build a ramp from the HB leg onto the express tracks there. It would run express as the (A) route from there. The (A) covers some of the most important locations of the Manhattan and Brooklyn CBDs. These (A) trains would replace the Rock Park trains which would instead go up the Old Rock and Super-Express 24/7 as the Queens SAS line. In the absence of a Super-Express they would merge into the QB local at 63rd Dr. The latter would force the (G) to stay at Court Sq. |
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| (583706) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Mar 9 16:12:17 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by SMAZ on Sun Mar 9 15:51:26 2008. The buses probably wont be canceled |
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