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| (528608) | |
Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 00:04:27 2007 NY TIMES: Management of Subways to Be SplitExcerpt: Howard H. Roberts Jr., president of New York City Transit, will announce an overhaul today of how the subway system is run. The changes are designed to give individual subway lines a greater degree of autonomy by putting each one under the direction of a manager who will be responsible for almost everything that happens on the tracks, in the trains and in the stations. The goal, Mr. Roberts said, is to have 24 subway lines operating in many ways as 24 self-contained railroads. (The number may vary, depending on how the lines are counted.) They will compete against one another and be rated on service, cleanliness, on-time performance and other measures. |
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| (528613) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 6 00:14:58 2007, in response to Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 00:04:27 2007. Under the new system, the general manager for each line will be able to make most of those decisions, large and small. They will be responsible for the workers who drive the trains, staff the token booths and clean and repair the cars. If they really allow that to happen, I will be impressed. But I just don't see how it can. |
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| (528614) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 00:15:48 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 6 00:14:58 2007. Time will tell. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (528616) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 6 00:16:47 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 00:15:48 2007. If by time you mean the next round of these shady offline/online surveys, then yeah... |
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| (528617) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Dec 6 00:17:50 2007, in response to Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 00:04:27 2007. Heh theres a LOT more to this story...A lot more... Now the "fat cats" at 2 Bway,130, 180 Livingston and 370 Jay Street are crapping in thier pants.. Beacuse now they have to "justify" thier jobs... |
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| (528618) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 6 00:22:40 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Railman718 on Thu Dec 6 00:17:50 2007. Do you know the lots more? Or are you speculating? |
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| (528619) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Dec 6 00:25:57 2007, in response to Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 00:04:27 2007. Interesting. I thought therewas already a Line Superintendent. Is this new position much more than a Line Superintendent? |
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| (528622) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Dec 6 00:27:38 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 6 00:22:40 2007. No im not why do you think Rueter and Lapp ran away?There has been "movement" down here from uptop ever since Lee and Roberts came down here.. Some of it was in the papers(Reuter,Lapp Kalikow) Most of it wasnt.. |
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| (528623) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 00:27:39 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Dec 6 00:25:57 2007. Sounds like he will have more responsibility and thus more accountability. |
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| (528625) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Dec 6 00:29:32 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 00:27:39 2007. Sounds like he/she will have more responsibility and thus more accountability.Heres a hint LESS Deputies... They are looking to "broadband" the ones who need to be "broadbanded" |
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| (528627) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 00:30:28 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Railman718 on Thu Dec 6 00:29:32 2007. Sounds like a good thing. |
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| (528635) | |
Re: Not on Queens ridership increase, was Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Dec 6 00:36:09 2007, in response to Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 00:04:27 2007. From the article:"And a manager running just one line still has sprawling responsibilities. There are 394,000 passenger trips each weekday on the No. 7 line alone, more than the daily total for the entire BART system in the San Francisco area." And a little over half what Washington Metrorail carries each weekday. Since the Queens Blvd corridor carries about 650,000 a day, this means ridership in the two biggest central-northern corridors (that is, not counting the Astoria line, the G, the J or A train) has reached 1.05 million riders per day! Queens needs new subway capacity. If Iwere a betting man, I would predict that the MTA will conduct a new capacity study to rank options for increasing subway capacity in Queens - especially with the new higher density Airport Village coming to the Hillside Av corridor west of 189 St. I predict they will start one next year. As to what would be reported as a result of this study - perhaps a subway extension, or a new line?? |
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| (528640) | |
Re: Not on Queens ridership increase, was Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 00:45:38 2007, in response to Re: Not on Queens ridership increase, was Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Dec 6 00:36:09 2007. That would be nice, and long overdue. |
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| (528641) | |
Re: Queens ridership increase, was Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Dec 6 00:46:15 2007, in response to Re: Not on Queens ridership increase, was Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 00:45:38 2007. Sorry, corrected my title |
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| (528645) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 6 00:55:44 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Railman718 on Thu Dec 6 00:27:38 2007. Well yeah, that's normal. I'm talking about specifics of this new plan. That's what the thread is about. |
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| (528648) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Thu Dec 6 01:01:18 2007, in response to Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 00:04:27 2007. If it is like that, it should be like London, with central planning and management but seperate opeating companies.For example: The IRT Main Line would be under one entity, the BMT (B1), IND (B2) and the 7 (IRT Queensboro division). Shuttles would be part of their respective organisations, and Staten Island Railway and SBK also independent. |
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| (528650) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Dec 6 01:03:33 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 6 00:55:44 2007. Well yeah, that's normalNOT for this agency it is... This new plan cuts the fat so to speak.. One person one line your show.. As i said before this has been in the works for some time.. The press just was made aware of it now.. |
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| (528655) | |
Re: Not on Queens ridership increase, was Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Thu Dec 6 01:17:38 2007, in response to Re: Not on Queens ridership increase, was Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Dec 6 00:36:09 2007. I don't know about extending the Hillside or Archer Avs lines; might be a ton cheaper to simply run more LIRR trains, eliminated express bus routes, and improve local bus service and connections to LIRR.As for a subway extension, I'd say extend the Queens Blvd local line to make stops at Kew Gardens Hills-Jewel Av/Main St, Queens College-Melbourne Av, and then follow an LIE alignment, stopping at Utopia-Utopia Pkwy, Fresh Meadows-188th St, terminating at Oakland Gardens-Springfield Blvd. |
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| (528659) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Dec 6 01:31:51 2007, in response to Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 00:04:27 2007. Does this mean that line superintendents will fight each other in towers in order to route their trains first where lines merge? Gotta keep up the on time performance! :) :D :)
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| (528660) | |
Re: Whoa! Stupidity comes to the MTA |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 6 01:47:08 2007, in response to Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 00:04:27 2007. What's with the fixing what ain't broken?Ain't like this new (expensive) move will make the subways run faster or gain more fare revenue. How about putting an actual railroad person in charge of the whole subway? |
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| (528676) | |
Re: Not on Queens ridership increase, was Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Dec 6 03:16:10 2007, in response to Re: Not on Queens ridership increase, was Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by trainsarefun on Thu Dec 6 01:17:38 2007. There are a number of options. We'll see what happens. |
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| (528694) | |
Re: Not on Queens ridership increase, was Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Dec 6 04:26:10 2007, in response to Re: Not on Queens ridership increase, was Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Dec 6 00:36:09 2007. Already in the works,as part of the MTA's 2030 Plan... |
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| (528702) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Dec 6 05:24:33 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Railman718 on Thu Dec 6 01:03:33 2007. I'm waiting to see the fistfights at 59 tower, E180, DeKalb and a few other spots in the system as line supers duke it out as to which train gets the bottom bulb. Looks like all the (D)'s are layups. :) |
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| (528703) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Russ on Thu Dec 6 05:40:28 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Dec 6 05:24:33 2007. I'm waiting to see the fistfights at 59 tower, E180, DeKalb and a few other spots in the system as line supers duke it out as to which train gets the bottom bulb. Looks like all the (D)'s are layups. :)Would you pay to see it? I'm thinking pay-per-view. This could be big! |
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| (528704) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Dec 6 05:52:42 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Russ on Thu Dec 6 05:40:28 2007. First impression upon reading the article was this boy can't put down the quack pipe. And natch, 7 and L are the chosen lines because they don't have to slipstream other trains. A no-brainer. I noted that Sander mentioned 4/5/6 as next up, and made me wonder what about the deuce super and those folks in Brooklyn. Anyone who ever did the (3) knows that if it runs at all, it's by the grace of fairies. Betcha it doesn't even *have* a super. But I can definitely see E180 being "paper view" and if it should move to the IND/BMT mainlines, all hell's gonna break if a train is held for another at DeKalb ...Doing the 7 and L, no problem. You don't have towers playing games. B division? Heh. |
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| (528705) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Dec 6 05:56:53 2007, in response to Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 00:04:27 2007. From the Times article:Mr. Roberts helped carry out a similar reorganization of the city’s bus system, installing managers for each borough, during a stint at the agency in the 1980s. That puts things in perspective. |
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| (528706) | |
Re: Not on Queens ridership increase, was Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Dec 6 06:06:44 2007, in response to Re: Not on Queens ridership increase, was Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Dec 6 00:36:09 2007. Queens needs new subway capacity...the Hillside Av corridor west of 189 St...perhaps a subway extension,Subway extensions do not increase capacity; they increase direct subway access. They are not the same thing. |
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| (528711) | |
Re: Not on Queens ridership increase, was Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 6 06:52:06 2007, in response to Re: Not on Queens ridership increase, was Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Dec 6 06:06:44 2007. Heh, yep. |
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| (528716) | |
Re: Whoa! Stupidity comes to the MTA |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Dec 6 07:26:57 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Stupidity comes to the MTA, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 6 01:47:08 2007. What's with the fixing what ain't broken?You are joking right? Ain't like this new (expensive) move will make the subways run faster or gain more fare revenue. How about putting an actual railroad person in charge of the whole subway? How do you know they wont do that? You have "railroad people" (those who came from RTO) who are not in a postion to make decisions now, they might get that chance. They are looking to cut and slash at the top whats expensive about that? |
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| (528721) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Dec 6 07:34:53 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Dec 6 05:52:42 2007. Know what Kevin??NOW if you DONT know what the heck you are doing to you be exposed big time.. Put up or shut up time!!! No more "oh i will talk to so and so about this" nope.. Lots of fun seeing the Big Shots sweat.... |
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| (528723) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Dec 6 07:39:41 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Railman718 on Thu Dec 6 07:34:53 2007. Heh. Just GO and play with your trains. I'm sitting here, about to go to sleep, laughing my teats off about the A line super in fisticuffs with the B line, D line (A&C are the same aside from track assignments) over WHO pulls in next N/B to 59 or who rots on the local track north of 42 (before they shut off the "E bypass" to lower 42) waiting for what to show up and pass ... sorry ... 7 and L, no problem.OTHER lines? Heh. They should sell tickets to the tower bay window ... fuggedabout raising the fare ... THESE cockfights are *pure* pay TV! Heh. You know what I mean about line supers and the peckering order of "who's on first?" :) |
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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Dec 6 07:45:14 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Dec 6 07:39:41 2007. LOL RDO today!!I play with those trains tommorow.. No wonder some "persons" have been acting "uptight" lately... Time to get those resumes in order! |
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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Fytton on Thu Dec 6 07:49:50 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 6 00:14:58 2007. "The general managers who take over the 7 and L are going to be running their own railroads,”Note that he chooses as his examples the only two lines that really are more or less self-contained. This management scheme might well work for those lines, but how could it work on (say) the Sixth Avenue or Eighth Avenue corridors? As for competition, that's silly - the lines go to different places! The four routes to Coney Island compete, maybe, but that is just one destination - there aren't many examples like that. |
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| (528735) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Dec 6 08:01:39 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Fytton on Thu Dec 6 07:49:50 2007. "The general managers who take over the 7 and L are going to be running their own railroads,”Note that he chooses as his examples the only two lines that really are more or less self-contained. The Shuttle, the 1 and the 6 would be fairly easy to split off, and then leaving the 2/3/4/5 as one unit would probably count as good enough. This management scheme might well work for those lines, but how could it work on (say) the Sixth Avenue or Eighth Avenue corridors? In fact, the only lines that could sensibly be split off the BMT/IND morass apart from the L are the J/M/Z and the Franklin Shuttle. |
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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by MJF on Thu Dec 6 08:05:40 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Dec 6 07:39:41 2007. If they do this right it could be more efficient than the current setup.Think "Zone Trainmaster" only with control over ALL aspects of his area. |
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| (528750) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Dec 6 08:28:47 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Dec 6 07:39:41 2007. What's on second, I Don't Know is on third, etc.:) |
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| (528762) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Mr. D - Type on Thu Dec 6 08:53:08 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 6 00:14:58 2007. Oh great, just what that they need another level of managers. I think Mr. Roberts should resign right now, if he actually believes what he said. I could see holding the line supers more accountable but adding on on top of them, another crazy idea. |
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| (528766) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Dec 6 09:26:08 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Mr. D - Type on Thu Dec 6 08:53:08 2007. What makes you think hes "adding" Line Supers??He isnt... Hes Cutting.... Broadband time.... |
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| (528769) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by rideonrulez on Thu Dec 6 09:27:58 2007, in response to Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 00:04:27 2007. WMATA started that "line manager" thing and has yet to see a difference. Maybe NYC can be the role model because obviously WMATA can't! |
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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Dec 6 09:30:47 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by rideonrulez on Thu Dec 6 09:27:58 2007. Remember even before Lee "came to power" he had his people looking at RTO operations left and right...He was also talking to us (hourlies) a lot as well while ignoring the Bosses beacuse they dont move the trains, we do.. He KNEW what he was walking into when he took the job.. He knows what direction must be taken, lets see if his and Roberts Plans works out.. |
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| (528774) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Thu Dec 6 09:43:51 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Railman718 on Thu Dec 6 09:30:47 2007. I certainly hope that this plan is better thought out than Roberts' thought to increase on-time percentages by reducing frequency of service.To the extent that this plan will reduce the amount of redundant supervision, and hold supervisors accountable for judgments, it will be an improvement. But as ever, 'God is in the details', so we'll need to check back, later. Of course, I don't know about this silly claim of every route is its own railroad. (From the people who brought us the 'report cards'). If I'm managing, e.g., the D route, there are a ton of other routes that affect my route's performance, i.e., my people on the D route could be executing perfectly perfect plans, and because of the situation on the lines that 'my' D trains go down, things could still be rather imperfect. |
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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Alex L. on Thu Dec 6 09:45:53 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 6 00:22:40 2007. Everything is speculation until it actually happens. The plan described in the article is what we've been hearing about for awhile. To offset it though, five LMs have been 'made' - two from RTO, two from DCE and one from Stations (rumors of a second Stations LM swirl, but no name has come forth). Reality already doesn't match the story in the press. |
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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Dec 6 09:46:10 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by rideonrulez on Thu Dec 6 09:27:58 2007. WMATA had a decent idea (and has the perfect route structure for that sort of thing) but, from what I can tell, is very top heavy and accountability is political in nature more than operational... |
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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Alex L. on Thu Dec 6 09:48:09 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Dec 6 08:01:39 2007. How do you split off the locals from their associated expresses? The whole of the IRT is so intertwined that a problem on one line is almost always felt all over the division. |
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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Dec 6 09:52:20 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Alex L. on Thu Dec 6 09:48:09 2007. Same with the B Div...The Deltas always get dumped on... 59th Master,Dekalb,Murphy... I still love the line though... ;o) |
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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Pelham R62A on Thu Dec 6 10:26:25 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 6 00:14:58 2007. I think it's a good thing too but I want to see, if the 7 and L lines are successful under this new management, how duties will be handed down on lines like the Lex or Queens Blvd where stations are shared.I guess money and management will be equally split or will they assign managers to specific stations along lines which serve several lines. I want to meet the manager of the Times Square Shuttle...his job should be very easy! |
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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Alex L. on Thu Dec 6 10:29:19 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Railman718 on Thu Dec 6 09:52:20 2007. If Murphy is dumping on the Delta, you guys have a serious problem, since Murphy answers to the Delta.59 Master dumps on everyone unless you have a big blue circle with an A in it. When I had a B job during the Bridge shut down, they used to give me TWO wrong line-ups off the same punch. |
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| (528803) | |
Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Dec 6 10:36:10 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Alex L. on Thu Dec 6 10:29:19 2007. If Murphy is dumping on the Delta, you guys have a serious problem, since Murphy answers to the Delta.Yeah well thats how it is now The always common "Late Running Nancy" will get the Line-Up at 36th before you.. Or the Holding lights at 9th Ave for reason.. I still love the line though.. |
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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by error46146 on Thu Dec 6 15:23:28 2007, in response to Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 00:04:27 2007. That'll be fun to see... |
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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Dec 6 16:03:34 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Dec 6 05:52:42 2007. It'll be Risk: Extreme Full-Contact NYCT Death Match Edition. ;) |
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