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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by BMTLines on Thu Nov 8 23:17:40 2007, in response to Amtrak photo policy, posted by Jan K. Lorenzen on Thu Nov 8 22:48:55 2007. Is it This story?As we have seen here police are known to enforce nonexistant photo bans. Check out this story about a similar incident on the NEC Jem Cohen's encounter at Amtrak Therefore I would not be in such a rush to send your story to snopes - it is VERY PLAUSIBLE!!! |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 8 23:19:02 2007, in response to Amtrak photo policy, posted by Jan K. Lorenzen on Thu Nov 8 22:48:55 2007. I can save you some effort ... Amtrak does NOT have any formal policy with respect to photography, either for or against. I've often taken pictures in, on and around their trains. And from time to time, I've been stopped and "interviewed." What I learned over that time was the smartest thing to do is just ASK your conductor or those around if it's OK by them to take pictures. Whenever I've gone about it THIS way, it's always been "go ahead."It's a shame that our alleged "security knuckle-draggers" who are the ones who will pull this nonsense never received the proper training in that those with any "nefarious intent" aren't going to make what they're doing OBVIOUS and are very likely to use a CONCEALED camera to do their "spying" activities. :( |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Easy on Thu Nov 8 23:35:04 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 8 23:19:02 2007. Amtrak response |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 8 23:49:13 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Easy on Thu Nov 8 23:35:04 2007. Interesting ... they might want to tell staff about that although anything I ever took pictures of did comply with what's mentioned there. But I still ask before whipping out a camera, just the right thing to do "in these times" ... that way, ya don't have two separate gorillas with dime store badges closing in on you and ruining the shot. :) |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Nov 9 06:07:37 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by BMTLines on Thu Nov 8 23:17:40 2007. Therefore I would not be in such a rush to send your story to snopes - it is VERY PLAUSIBLE!!!If it's very plausible, that's even more reason to send it to Snopes— if it's really implausible, anyone can easily dismiss it as fake. It's the plausible ones you have to look up on Snopes. |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Nov 9 06:08:06 2007, in response to Amtrak photo policy, posted by Jan K. Lorenzen on Thu Nov 8 22:48:55 2007. I hope I don't have such problems on Amtrak. I'm travelling with them soon. |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri Nov 9 06:52:53 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Nilet on Fri Nov 9 06:08:06 2007. I'm confident that you'll be ok once outside the nyc area.your pal, Fred |
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| (514328) | |
Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by chuchubob on Fri Nov 9 07:31:00 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Fred G on Fri Nov 9 06:52:53 2007. On one visit to Harrisburg I was told by an Amtrak cop on the platform (I had just gotten off the train) not to take photos. When I politely inquired as to why, he pointed out that Amtrak suits were present and he didn't want to get reprimanded for not being vigilant.On a subsequent Harrisburg trip (September 29), I asked the Amtrak cop on the platform if I could walk to the end of the platform to photograph the AEM7 that had pushed the train to Harrisburg. He said No. I said "I'm a ticketed passenger." The cop replied "Make it quick".   By the time I got back to the stairway, the cop and his dog had boarded the train, so I walked to the other end of the platform.  
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| (514331) | |
Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Nov 9 07:35:29 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 8 23:49:13 2007. Interesting ...You got pwn3d. I'm the one who emailed Amtrak and got the official photography policy. I then gave it to Dave to add to his site. But I still ask before whipping out a camera, just the right thing to do "in these times" 100% disagree. To ask is to be denied. There's no reason to ask. And "these times" do nothing but make people loser wimps. |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Nov 9 07:37:03 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by chuchubob on Fri Nov 9 07:31:00 2007. I asked the Amtrak cop on the platform if I could walk to the end of the platform to photograph the AEM7 that had pushed the train to Harrisburg. He said No. I said "I'm a ticketed passenger." The cop replied "Make it quick".Exactly. Selkirk thinks you should ask first, and you did, and the cop gave you a hard time. It's better to just not ask. |
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| (514333) | |
Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Nov 9 07:37:44 2007, in response to Amtrak photo policy, posted by Jan K. Lorenzen on Thu Nov 8 22:48:55 2007. Easy has linked to the official Amtrak photography policy. |
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| (514337) | |
Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by chuchubob on Fri Nov 9 07:47:29 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Nov 9 07:37:03 2007. Bob: I asked the Amtrak cop on the platform if I could walk to the end of the platform to photograph the AEM7 that had pushed the train to Harrisburg. He said No. I said "I'm a ticketed passenger." The cop replied "Make it quick".Terp: Exactly. Selkirk thinks you should ask first, and you did, and the cop gave you a hard time. It's better to just not ask. I disagree. I suspect that if I had walked past the cop and his dog toward the end of the platform it would have led to an ugly confrontation. |
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| (514339) | |
Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Nov 9 07:53:19 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by chuchubob on Fri Nov 9 07:47:29 2007. You could have had his job then, since you were totally in the right. |
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| (514344) | |
Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by chuchubob on Fri Nov 9 08:03:43 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Nov 9 07:53:19 2007. No way. Not without third party video. My word against his. |
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| (514346) | |
Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by kp5308 on Fri Nov 9 08:07:43 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Fred G on Fri Nov 9 06:52:53 2007. What policy-check this out:Last Thursday at 30th St, I walked past a cop & down to the platform to shoot the Steamtown train. Nobody bothered me, so I stayed about an hour.  Saturday, woowooDave & I shot from the end of the platform at Washington for about an hour. Nobody questioned us-even waved at the passing crews.  Sunday I went to the SAME SPOT to shoot the departure of The Capitol & drew an Amtrak cop in about 15 minutes! He wanted to see my pictures, which I showed him. He pronounced that there was nothing wrong with them(?) but told me I need to get permission to be out there. When he escorted me back, he started questioning me about my camera. Said he has a similar one & likes it. Funny he never asked for ID....... In June I shot from INSIDE the Carolinian out the back vesibule window WITH A CREWMEMBER WATCHING!  |
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| (514348) | |
Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri Nov 9 08:16:26 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by kp5308 on Fri Nov 9 08:07:43 2007. It depends on the day, depends on the officer or train crew. Up here, New Haven can be a real bear or not a problem at all. People are starting to recognize me up and down the line so it's been more of a friendly situation rather than crappy.Nice shots, btw. your pal, Fred |
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| (514349) | |
Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by chuchubob on Fri Nov 9 08:20:04 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by kp5308 on Fri Nov 9 08:07:43 2007. I routinely photograph without incident from the end of the platform at WAS during an engine change on a train that I'm riding.Aug 27  Aug 19  April 6 
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Nov 9 08:27:34 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by chuchubob on Fri Nov 9 08:03:43 2007. I mean if he tried something funny like arrest. |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Easy on Fri Nov 9 09:24:14 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Nov 9 07:37:03 2007. I think that cops are more likely to leave you alone if you let them know what you're doing. If not, who knows what starts running through their heads that makes them want to be a-holes?OTOH many private security gaurds seem to operate under the mistaken impression that all photography is illegal without permission, whether of Amtrak or people or objects in public view. Asking them is asking for trouble. I've never encountered the Amtrak police so I don't know how they are. Amtrak employees out here don't seem to care. The only time that I would consider asking is if it was a joint Amtrak/Metrolink station and there was a LA, Orange County, or San Diego standing on or adjacent to the platform. I won't always ask but I can kinda tell which cops might give me a hard time. |
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| (514377) | |
Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by chuchubob on Fri Nov 9 10:22:48 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Nov 9 08:27:34 2007. So do I. An extreme example (not rail related) was three guys with anti-GOP signs at the GOP National Convention in Philly in 2000. They were beaten up by a group of Philly cops and arrested for assault and battery on a police officer. When their trial came up a couple years later, dozens of cops gave eyewitness testimony corroborating the police version. The former Police Commissioner even came up from Miami, where he is still Police Chief, and gave his eyewitness account.Then the defense came up with a surprise witness. The group was four guys, not three. The fourth videotaped the entire proceeding, showing the the police attacked the three guys without provocation and beat them up. The cops were totally pissed that the three "punks" were aquitted. Of course, no police were charged with perjury or assault and battery. After all, Philly has a tradition (Frank Rizzo) to uphold. BYW, Union Pacific took a twenty-plus car business train to the Convention, powered by three E9's, two of which were photographable.   
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| (514379) | |
Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Nov 9 10:29:53 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Nilet on Fri Nov 9 06:07:37 2007. The accuracy of information on snopes.com is not really worth all the trust many put into what's on their site. Especially within the last 2 years. |
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| (514381) | |
Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Nov 9 10:30:48 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Easy on Fri Nov 9 09:24:14 2007. I think that cops are more likely to leave you alone if you let them know what you're doing. If not, who knows what starts running through their heads that makes them want to be a-holes?But Bob asked and the cop said NO. And then he said he was a ticketed passenger (which should have been downright OBVIOUS) and so the COP gave him a restriction (that he had to make it quick). That's B.S. As a ticketed passenger you are allowed to take photos while boarding and detraining. There are no restrictions on the public being at the end of the platform that I know of. So Bob was totally in the right to go and take these photos without asking. The Amtrak rules do not say that you must ask a cop first. Why give up your rights? When you ask, the cop can say NO, and then you're gonna go disobey him? Instead, you can go get a few shots off before the cop comes running. Then he'll either say NO (but you already have a few shots), or he'll let you continue because you are doing nothing wrong and he's not a complete a-hole. |
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| (514383) | |
Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Nov 9 10:32:42 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by chuchubob on Fri Nov 9 10:22:48 2007. Ok, but that's just not something I worry about. |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Nov 9 10:33:33 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by kp5308 on Fri Nov 9 08:07:43 2007. I've also shot many pics in front of crews (mostly NJ Transit) and they've basically ignored me. It's usually the cowardly asshole who decides to make your actions a big deal to compensate for his pathetic existence. |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Nov 9 10:36:44 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Nov 9 10:29:53 2007. I thought they were bought by some company in the last two years."Check out this story about a similar incident on the NEC Jem Cohen's encounter at Amtrak" He's even got a terrorists name! |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Nov 9 10:40:14 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Nov 9 10:33:33 2007. Yeah. It varies. One Amtrak cop at Harrisburg told me I couldn't take photos because I was in a "restricted area" (the platform). A cop at Penn told me that photography was illegal and he could take my camera if he wanted to. One NJT conductor told me that he thought photography was illegal, but when I told him it wasn't (and showed him the letter), he called control (or whatever), then came back and said I could resume; it was legal after all. |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Nov 9 10:43:13 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Nov 9 10:29:53 2007. PROFF? |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Nov 9 10:47:53 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Nilet on Fri Nov 9 10:40:14 2007. You have to listen to cops, but had that "conductor" done that to me, I'd continue shooting and ignore any of his attempts to stop me. Never, EVER allow them to think they have any authority to enforce a rule not related to their job. Even if it IS related, all they can do is call a real cop. |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Nov 9 10:50:07 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Nov 9 10:47:53 2007. You have to listen to copsBut you could call Amtrak media relations, and if anyone is there in the office, you could put them on the phone with the cop. |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Fri Nov 9 10:52:44 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Nov 9 10:29:53 2007. You could say the exact same thing about FAUX NEWS. |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Nov 9 10:56:42 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Nov 9 10:47:53 2007.  You have to listen to cops... Not necessarily. There's the basics, of course; never consent to searches, stand up for your rights, etc, but even then, there's limits on what cops are allowed to do. Nowadays, my standard response to a cop who has a problem with photography is to ask outright: "I plan on continuing to take photos. Will I be arrested if I do this?" If they say "no," I'm free to keep clicking. If they say "yes," I have a direct confession of illegal coercion to take to the CCRB— straight from the |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Nov 9 11:02:03 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Fri Nov 9 10:52:44 2007. Oh, come on! You can't compare Snopes with Fox. At least Snopes doesn't intentionally lie. |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Fri Nov 9 11:02:28 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Nilet on Fri Nov 9 11:02:03 2007. lol |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Nov 9 11:09:22 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Nilet on Fri Nov 9 11:02:03 2007. Neither does FOX...The same cannot be said for CBS or the NYT. ROAR |
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| (514451) | |
Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Nov 9 11:36:10 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Nov 9 11:09:22 2007. Neither does FOX...That's patently ridiculous. |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by hhp664 on Fri Nov 9 12:53:16 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Nov 9 07:37:44 2007. As a Amtrak engineer and a railfan i must admit that depending the activity the person taking the photos are doing i might and have called the police, whether Transit or amtrak police. Too many railfans like to go into off limit areas or dangerous areas. I have seen railbuffs go to the end of the platform in penn station and climb down the steps where there is third rail to get a good roster shot, or climb a catenary pole or signal bridge. If that happens i will not hesitate to call the authoritys. People have to realize anything can happen, a major arc or a brake shoe popping off or even a pan breaking.craig |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Nov 9 13:29:11 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by hhp664 on Fri Nov 9 12:53:16 2007. That's great. But we're not talking about that kind of activity. We're talking about photography from PUBLIC areas of the system. That taking photos from RESTRICTED AREAS would result in police action is a no-brainer. And the photography part isn't even relevant, TRESPASSING is their main problem. |
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| (514494) | |
Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by MathProf on Fri Nov 9 13:39:32 2007, in response to Amtrak photo policy, posted by Jan K. Lorenzen on Thu Nov 8 22:48:55 2007. The OP was asking about INSIDE the train. I found this on the Empire Builder Route Guide athttp://www.amtrak.com/pdf/routeguideempirebuilder.pdf This would seem to suggest that (at least on this train, and probably others) that photography inside the train is certainly allowed. SCENIC PHOTO TIPS The “camera” symbol on your route Guide Map marks the best spots, so have your camera ready. Outside Shots: Medium speed settings, (ISO 200 or higher), are recommended for shooting scenery through the train windows. If your shutter speed is adjustable and light conditions permit, set it at a higher speed for clearest results. Hold your lens close to the windows, but not touching, to eliminate glare and reflections. Inside Shots: Flash is recommended. To avoid glare and reflections, do not point the flash directly at the window. |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Nov 9 14:08:27 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by MathProf on Fri Nov 9 13:39:32 2007. Thanks, but Easy already LINKED to the Amtrak photography policy, which includes inside the train. |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by MathProf on Fri Nov 9 15:20:15 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Nov 9 14:08:27 2007. True, but my point was to illustrate that not only do they allow it, they actually encourage it and provide pointers on how to do it. |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Canton Viaduct on Fri Nov 9 15:41:05 2007, in response to Amtrak photo policy, posted by Jan K. Lorenzen on Thu Nov 8 22:48:55 2007. Uh... Amtrak has an annual photo contest and the national timetable encourages photography. (I don't have it in front of me, but I'll try quoting it when I do). |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Canton Viaduct on Fri Nov 9 15:44:13 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Canton Viaduct on Fri Nov 9 15:41:05 2007. Here's a link to the contest. |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Nov 9 15:52:45 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by MathProf on Fri Nov 9 13:39:32 2007. You're SUPPOSED to take photos on the EB. The onboard guides tell you when a photo op is coming up.I'd be causing a stink until they sent me to gitmo if I had this problem. |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Nov 9 15:53:48 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by MathProf on Fri Nov 9 15:20:15 2007. I agree. Yes, that would be good to carry with you during Amtrak travel. |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Nov 9 16:19:51 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Nov 9 07:35:29 2007. What can I say? I don't take pictures often, but every time I have where there was scheinsicherheit around, told them what I was doing, accent said "out of town" and that was the end of it. When one of my former motorman buddies came east from Montana for a visit here, I went and called up CSX police about two weeks ahead of his arrival, told them that me and a buddy wanted to take pictures INSIDE Selkirk yard of the equipment and all. They ran a background check on ME (I had no problem with it myself) and then called back, told me and Ed to meet them at the employee parking lot, and we had free reign of the yard after a couple of track safety questions.I guess one's luck around railroads is all a matter of the common sense demonstrated. Cops appreciate knowing that someone in their face is not going to be a threat or raise their blood pressure. From a cop's mind, the ONLY people who ramble on and on about their "rights" are perps. :) |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Nov 9 16:29:05 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Nov 9 16:19:51 2007. As it relates to the Amtrak station, you can't say anything. Case closed. |
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| (514647) | |
Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Nov 9 17:01:46 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Nov 9 16:29:05 2007. False ... read the other posts ... but since you're so familiar with the station and know it all, what are the rules for the waiting area? |
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| (514648) | |
Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by MathProf on Fri Nov 9 17:03:59 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Nov 9 15:52:45 2007. Well, When I'm on there in March, I plan on taking a lot of them! |
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Re: Amtrak photo policy |
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Posted by BMTLines on Sat Nov 10 01:49:59 2007, in response to Re: Amtrak photo policy, posted by chuchubob on Fri Nov 9 10:22:48 2007. Here is a story (not rail related) of a photographer who just got a settlement of $8,000 for being detained for one hour:Click here If more and more photographers file claims every time they are harassed and more and more local governments are forced to offer financial settlements eventually the harassment will stop as the cost of settling outweighs the benefits... |
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