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| A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! (508812) | |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by JBar387 on Sun Oct 28 18:11:05 2007, in response to A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Bingham C50 on Sun Oct 28 18:04:13 2007. Nice! |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Oct 28 18:14:04 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by JBar387 on Sun Oct 28 18:11:05 2007. VERY NICE! |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Oct 28 18:17:39 2007, in response to A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Bingham C50 on Sun Oct 28 18:04:13 2007. This is good news...Now ..if we can only get the NYPD/LIRR/METRO NORTH/MTA/NYCT on board to UNDERSTAND this... |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Oct 28 18:22:27 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Edwards! on Sun Oct 28 18:17:39 2007. Now ..if we can only get the NYPD/LIRR/METRO NORTH/MTA/NYCT on board to UNDERSTAND this...I don't know what you are talking about. For the most part, all of the entities you named do not pose a problem. |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Oct 28 18:26:41 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Oct 28 18:22:27 2007. There's often a difference between the law on the books and the law in the heads of those enforcing it. So patience and a bit of effort at education might well be in order. |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Oct 28 18:31:29 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Oct 28 18:26:41 2007. But like I said, there haven't been many problems at all per, say, photograph taken. |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Oct 28 21:12:15 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Oct 28 18:22:27 2007. If You don't know by Now that MANY MTA employees/Police officers enforce their OWN SET OF RULES..by stating PHOTO ARE NOT ALLOWED..Then you will never know.In any case..it doesn't matter much NOW..since this little parcel came out. hopefully a memo has been sent to EVERY TRANSIT DISTRICT OFFICE..so there will be no further misunderstandings. |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Oct 28 21:16:34 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Edwards! on Sun Oct 28 21:12:15 2007. MANY MTA employees/Police officers enforce their OWN SET OF RULES..by stating PHOTO ARE NOT ALLOWED..PROFF? Tons of us take photos throughout the MTA system. The number of incidents reported here are minimal. Like I said, I don't see the problem. Plus, the MTA employees can't do jack schit. It's only the MTA Police and NYPD that matter. And in the past few months, IIRC, only Nilet has gotten hassled by the NYPD, and no one has gotten hassled by the MTA Police. Do you know of incidents that were not posted here? If so, please share. |
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| (508921) | |
Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Oct 28 21:18:19 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Edwards! on Sun Oct 28 21:12:15 2007. This "little parcel" changes nothing. The MTA Police already have their memo. The NYPD already have the rule in their rulebook in black and white. Both of those items are much stronger than this City of New York filming permit business. |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by Dave on Sun Oct 28 21:30:30 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Oct 28 21:18:19 2007. And it's debatable whether a subway/el platform is a public place. |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Oct 28 21:37:00 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Dave on Sun Oct 28 21:30:30 2007. At worst, it is simply governed by 21 NYCRR Part 1050, which clearly states that "Photography, filming or video recording in any facility or conveyance is permitted except that ancillary equipment such as lights, reflectors or tripods may not be used." |
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| (508958) | |
Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by BMTLines on Sun Oct 28 22:01:41 2007, in response to A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Bingham C50 on Sun Oct 28 18:04:13 2007. The New York Times version of the story included this comment:Film officials said they were surprised to learn how frequently independent and casual filmmakers and photographers were drawn into confrontations with building owners and the police over their rights to record. Perhaps now they will spread the word to the NYPD... (I can dream, can't I...) |
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| (508963) | |
Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by BMTLines on Sun Oct 28 22:13:58 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Dave on Sun Oct 28 21:30:30 2007. Irrelevant for purposes of photography under present rules - NYCRR 1050.9(c) applies there which specifically allows photography. The proposed city rules apply to sidewalk and park photography, which were not clearly defined. |
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| (508975) | |
Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Oct 28 22:33:35 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Oct 28 21:16:34 2007. Why does everything have to be about YOU....?I DRIVE A BUS...or did you forget that? I see all kinds of things that I DO NOT "REPORT" HERE..and COULDN'T if I wanted to. |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Oct 28 22:36:36 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Edwards! on Sun Oct 28 22:33:35 2007. This has nothing to do with me. I don't know how you got that impression. Care to explain?I know you drive a bus. So because you drive a bus, you see all kinds of rail-related incidents concerning NYPD down in the subway and MTA Police out along the LIRR and MNCR and SIR that you can't report? That makes no sense at all. Once again, feel free to fill us in on all of these incidents that haven't been posted here. Because AFAIK, the MTA Police and NYPD have been playing it pretty cool towards the poster here that take photos. |
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| (508985) | |
Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Oct 28 22:55:13 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Oct 28 22:36:36 2007. Okay..Now that we see that You ARE RESORTING TO OLD HABITS..Lets begin.. I am a public servant..a PROFESSIONAL.. If you KNEW WHAT that means..you'd ALSO KNOW that there are somethings we aren't ALLOWED to speak on.. I travel to work by rail..and even though I'm not an employee of the MTA..still we have a gag order. Another nasty habit you have is placing WORDS in the MOUTH of others.. While my hatred of you hasn't dulled one bit lately..I still feel that you DESERVE the benefit of the doubt...never the less. I find you being one of the most obnoxious person I have ever had the displeasure of knowing..often trying to "show up" others to make Yourself look good.. Its people like You that bring a bad name to this hobby with sickening obsessive manic behavior...and personally would prefer if you didn't answer any of my post.. But due to your knack for trouble..you can't help yourself..so I'll expect some sort of retort in kind. Believe me..this isn't "an un warranted attack" as you are so fond of saying..but just a bit of truth I needed you to hear. When you weren't posting.this board was VERY PEACEFUL...go away. |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Oct 28 23:18:15 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Edwards! on Sun Oct 28 22:55:13 2007. I am a public servantA didn't know that working for a private company means you are a public servant. Could you explain how that works? Don't skirt the issue. a PROFESSIONAL Yes, a professional at skirting the issue, and then making personal attacks when you get backed into a corner by good reasoning from your opponent. that there are somethings we aren't ALLOWED to speak on.. I travel to work by rail..and even though I'm not an employee of the MTA..still we have a gag order. I also didn't know that being a bus driver commuting to work on the subway means that you can't report what you see, especially if what you see is police violating the rights of the public. There's no way you are prohibited from reporting that. NO WAY IN HECK. And there's no way you could even think that you aren't allowed to report that. It's sick to even think that you'd think that. The way I see it, I called your bluff about the NYPD and MTA Police harassing subway and train photographers more than what we have seen posted here, so you started making up stories about how you see stuff but aren't allowed to report it. C'mon, you can do a lot better than that. But feel free to prove me wrong. Let's here about the gag order in your contract. Let's hear about all these police harassment incidents that you can't report because you are a public servant working for a private company that has nothing to do with the government. Don't skirt the issue. Another nasty habit you have is placing WORDS in the MOUTH of others.. While my hatred of you hasn't dulled one bit lately..I still feel that you DESERVE the benefit of the doubt...never the less. I find you being one of the most obnoxious person I have ever had the displeasure of knowing..often trying to "show up" others to make Yourself look good.. Its people like You that bring a bad name to this hobby with sickening obsessive manic behavior...and personally would prefer if you didn't answer any of my post.. But due to your knack for trouble..you can't help yourself..so I'll expect some sort of retort in kind. Believe me..this isn't "an un warranted attack" as you are so fond of saying..but just a bit of truth I needed you to hear. blah blah blah more unwarranted personal attacks from Edwards. It's really getting old. We can see right through you... When you weren't posting.this board was VERY PEACEFUL...go away. When was that? Saturday! LOL! Anyhow, like I've said, the NYPD and MTA Police have not been a significant problem lately. |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Oct 28 23:32:44 2007, in response to A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Bingham C50 on Sun Oct 28 18:04:13 2007. Great news! |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by BMTLines on Sun Oct 28 23:57:36 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Oct 28 23:18:15 2007. Aside from a few isolated incidents it appears that the situation has improved on the New York subways and rails. There were a number of recent incidents on NJ Transit however...I surf the net including Flickr and other photography sites for stories / blogs on photographer harassment. Most incidents now appear to be coming from other cities including, believe it or not, the Washington D.C. area. You would think they would be more tolerant of photographers there considering the sheer numbers of tourists with cameras. |
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| (509006) | |
Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Oct 29 00:14:14 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by BMTLines on Sun Oct 28 23:57:36 2007. Depends where in DC they are getting hassled. It's a tourist city, but the majority of the metro (even the city really) is outside the touristy areas.It's definitely gotten better in LA. It's been 6-7 months since anyone even asked me what I was doing. |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Mon Oct 29 00:28:19 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Easy on Mon Oct 29 00:14:14 2007. It's definitely gotten better in LA. It's been 6-7 months since anyone even asked me what I was doing.Nobody's asked me at all. Of course, I've conducted most of my LA railfan trips by car, so that makes it a bit easier. |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Oct 29 00:38:12 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by The Port of Authority on Mon Oct 29 00:28:19 2007. Well I've noticed a big difference. I used to be asked what I was doing by either an employee or a deputy fairly regularly up until I got my citation/summons. And I didn't even take pictures very often. Since that time I have only been asked once and that was by a deputy that I had been talking to already so that probably shouldn't even count.The fact that it all changed after my summons makes me wonder if that didn't help to get the word out to deputies that photography is allowed. I guess there's also the possibility that our system is small enough that most of the people have seen me around before. Either way I'm pleased with how things are going. |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by BMTLines on Mon Oct 29 00:46:48 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Easy on Mon Oct 29 00:14:14 2007. There are stories of people being hassled around the White House or even the Washington monument.There were also issues surrounding certain outdoor malls and private streets in Silver Springs which got a group to organize and force the owners to cease their anti photography stand. Some of the DC area issues are discussed here |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Oct 29 01:16:06 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by BMTLines on Mon Oct 29 00:46:48 2007. Those aren't really that bad. One guy took pictures at the Pentagon station and we all know that you can't do that. Another was complaining about problems taking photo's in a grocery store and you can't do that either. |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Oct 29 06:04:38 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Easy on Mon Oct 29 01:16:06 2007. Why not photos in a grocery store? Some security guy at Fairway told me the same thing— and I wasn't even taking photos! He just approached me 'cuz I had a camera with me. |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Oct 29 06:09:35 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Nilet on Mon Oct 29 06:04:38 2007. Private property |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by Fytton on Mon Oct 29 07:30:34 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Nilet on Mon Oct 29 06:04:38 2007. 'Why not photos in a grocery store?'I think the supermarket issue is to do with 'industrial espionage' and trying to prevent people working for their competitors from taking photos - some also try to prevent extensive note-taking, too (say, noting down a lot of prices). |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by BMTLines on Mon Oct 29 08:30:03 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Easy on Mon Oct 29 01:16:06 2007. Actually this is a better story on the issues there. |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photographers! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Oct 29 08:55:52 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by BMTLines on Mon Oct 29 08:30:03 2007. ridiculous |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Oct 29 08:58:23 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Easy on Mon Oct 29 01:16:06 2007. "One guy took pictures at the Pentagon station and we all know that you can't do that."The Pentagon needs Depends. |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by kp5308 on Mon Oct 29 09:31:11 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by BMTLines on Sun Oct 28 23:57:36 2007. recent incidents on NJ Transit however...NJT's policy varies WILDLY, regardless what is on paper. Case in point: On a recent trip to Philly on the AC Line, I was INVITED to the cab car to shoot a few:  But this 'un drew fire from the NJT boys:  Bustin' a move w the tripod set off some fireworks at Atco, so be prepared if you try some night time exposures, even at remote locations: 
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photographers! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Oct 29 09:45:48 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by kp5308 on Mon Oct 29 09:31:11 2007. As long as it isn't the NJT Police that are hassling you, right? It's unfortunate that NJT employees would not be familiar with the rules and regulations of their system, but you just tell them politely that photography is allowed, show them the Warrington letter, and then carry on.Great shots btw! |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photographers! |
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Posted by kp5308 on Mon Oct 29 11:32:12 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photographers!, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Oct 29 09:45:48 2007. Actually, the NJT Police that I've had contact with have more tact than most of the train employees. Several months ago I & a few others, including chuchubob were at Secaucus when Bob caught the attention of a Port Jervis crew, who proceeded to yell out the cab at him to stop taking pictures! He was on the celly when he passed me at the other end of the platform, & by the time we got up the 2nd escelator, here comes NJT's finest to check us all out. A pleasent conversation ensued, & that was that.Thanks fot the pic comment! I'll get that digital time exposure down if it friggin' kills me..... |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Mon Oct 29 12:03:00 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Nilet on Mon Oct 29 06:04:38 2007. I (and family members) have taken photos in Fairway before without any problems. |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Mon Oct 29 14:48:42 2007, in response to Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Fytton on Mon Oct 29 07:30:34 2007. Ironically, back in 1997 when I was on a public street in Montreal photographing buses, a Laval Transit (Laval, Quebec) supervisor ran after me, screaming in French. When he finally got the message that I didn't speak or understand French, he then babbled something in English about "Espionage". Hilarious! Like I was from an out-of-town bus company, and he was worried that I was going to recommend stealing their paint scheme or something!What a maroon! :-) |
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The Official Announcement from the MOFTB |
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Posted by Bingham C50 on Tue Oct 30 06:05:25 2007, in response to A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Bingham C50 on Sun Oct 28 18:04:13 2007. October 29, 2007 -The Mayor’s Office of Film, Theatre and Broadcasting (MOFTB) Commissioner Katherine Oliver today announced the release of a newly drafted permit rule proposal, which will be available online today and published in the City Record tomorrow. Under the proposed rules, which are designed to codify procedures that have existed in practice since the office was established in 1966, a permit would be required for a shoot if production equipment or vehicles create an obstruction, but not for productions that only use hand-held cameras or tripods that don’t cause an obstruction. The publication of the new rules, which are subject to public comment, follows the MOFTB’s decision to redraft rules following an initial publication and comment period that was extended to August 3, 2007. A copy of the proposed rule and an accompanying executive summary and “Q&A” document explaining it are available on the MOFTB website at www.nyc.gov/film. “During the rule drafting process, our intention has always been to balance the needs of filmmakers working in New York City with concerns about congestion in public places, traffic flow and public safety,” said Commissioner Oliver. “We have taken into consideration the issues that were raised by numerous groups and individuals during the comment period and have addressed those points in this new draft. We strive to make New York City a hassle-free environment for productions and to ease public inconvenience as much as possible. We hope that these new rules will be met with the understanding that as a government agency we are required to enact regulations, and we are simply formalizing the ways in which the agency has always operated.” The New Film Rule Proposal Under the new draft of the proposed rule, a permit would be required if equipment or vehicles are being used by the production or if the filming activity creates an obstruction. “Equipment” is defined as film cameras, videocameras, lights, sets, and other production related materials, but does not include hand-held devices or tripods. “Obstruction” is defined in the proposed rule as the assertion of exclusive control over a public space resulting in the obstruction of one or more lanes of a street or walkway, or when production activity results in either less than eight feet or one-half the width of the sidewalk or passageway (whichever is greater) being available for unobstructed sidewalk use by pedestrians. A permit would not be required if the production uses hand-held devices or tripods, its activity does not present an obstruction, and it is not using equipment or vehicles. An optional permit would be available in these instances, and would not require liability insurance. The rules would also not impact press photographers, who are routinely credentialed by the NYPD, or student filmmakers, who meet their insurance obligations by coverage through their school’s insurance program. As a general matter, City agencies’ procedures for the issuance of permits must be contained in formally adopted rules. The City Charter’s rulemaking process requires that City agencies publish proposed rules for public comment. Public comment is now open for this current draft of the rule, with a hearing scheduled for December 13, 2007. History Since its inception, MOFTB has always offered free permits requiring only liability insurance under certain circumstances. In addition, if warranted by the activity, MOFTB also offers free police assistance to streamline filming in New York City. The permit has served as the filmer’s authorization to interact with, and stage production activity, on City property. The decision to codify procedures came as part of a settlement of a recent lawsuit brought by an individual represented by the New York Civil Liberties Union (NYCLU). By codifying existing procedures as a rule, MOFTB has endeavored to meet the challenge of identifying a threshold level of activity which necessitates a film permit, while at the same time substantially mirroring its current practices. The rules were originally published on May 25, 2007, in the City Record and a hearing on the proposed rules was held on June 28, 2007. After significant public comment on the rules, MOFTB extended the comment period through August 3, 2007, and announced it would redraft the proposed rules.. Since that time, MOFTB has reviewed the comments and has met with various individuals and organizations to further the public discussion. The previous version of the rules included provisions that were based on the number of people present during a production, the duration of filming, and the use of a tripod to determine whether a permit was required. Those provisions have been removed from this draft. “My staff and I would like to thank the many organizations that have shared feedback and collaborated with the agency during the redrafting process, including Independent Feature Project (IFP), Fractured Atlas, Creative Capital, The Moving Pictures Collective of NYC, and the International Center of Photography (ICP),” said Commissioner Oliver. The MOFTB was the first film commission established in any locality in the United States, and is the one-stop shop for all production needs in New York City, including free permits, free public locations and free police assistance. The agency markets New York City as a prime location, provides premier customer service to production companies and facilitates production throughout the City’s five boroughs. The City of New York Mayor's Office of Film Theatre & Broadcasting 1697 Broadway Suite 602, New York, New York 10019. Copyright 2007 The City of New York http://www.nyc.gov/html/film/html/news/110107_moftb_issues_new..shtml |
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Re: A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers! |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Oct 30 06:44:17 2007, in response to A Victory for NYC Rail/Bus Photogaphers!, posted by Bingham C50 on Sun Oct 28 18:04:13 2007. Good, this frees up time for them to do something constructive.your pal, Fred |
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