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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by I Know Jack on Sun Feb 13 20:19:53 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by David on Sun Feb 13 14:09:49 2005. First off, the air compressors stink. There's never enough air for consistent operation. Second is that the cab is too small for a guy my size. |
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| (50460) | |
Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by ALSTOM R160A on Sun Feb 13 20:20:59 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by I Know Jack on Sun Feb 13 20:19:53 2005. The cab is too small for anyone over 5'6"!!! |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by I Know Jack on Sun Feb 13 20:28:59 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by ALSTOM R160A on Sun Feb 13 20:20:59 2005. I know one guy who is too large for a R46 cab and he used to squeeze into the 44s when he worked the A |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Feb 13 20:36:37 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by I Know Jack on Sun Feb 13 20:28:59 2005. More full-width cab trains are coming... |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by ALSTOM R160A on Sun Feb 13 20:40:59 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by I Know Jack on Sun Feb 13 20:28:59 2005. I've overheard that the tower ops try to accomodate the T/O's on the A, so when a tall or large T/O is next, they'll attempt to send him/her an R38 instead of an R44. |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by ALSTOM R160A on Sun Feb 13 20:41:09 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Feb 13 20:36:37 2005. R160's! w00t! |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sun Feb 13 20:46:39 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Feb 13 20:36:37 2005. R-44's have full-width cabs too. The issue is depth (front-to-back), not width (left-to-right). |
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| (50476) | |
Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by David on Sun Feb 13 20:58:48 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by I Know Jack on Sun Feb 13 20:19:53 2005. Assuming the air compressors are of insufficient capacity, that alone would not be a reason to scrap the cars -- the compressors could be upgraded/replaced under SMS.As for the cab size, the cars were built that way but it's not a technical problem. David |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by Broadway Junction on Sun Feb 13 21:19:51 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by ALSTOM R160A on Sun Feb 13 20:40:59 2005. What happens when a fat guy gets stuck on the H? |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 13 22:10:46 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by Broadway Junction on Sun Feb 13 21:19:51 2005. They get sent down to talk to the "TA Quack" about their weight problem. :( |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Feb 13 22:13:15 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Feb 13 17:20:26 2005. You've got a point. No one knows if a decision has been made, or what it might be if it was made. |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Feb 13 22:14:56 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by ALSTOM R160A on Sun Feb 13 18:04:30 2005. My "R44 love" is almost all sarcasm. I understand the reasoning behind them being retired first. It's just annoying to see people passing this around as fact. |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 13 22:17:28 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 13 22:10:46 2005. If they're SMART about it (famous last words) then trains to be retired will be taken on a case by case basis as the new ones come in. A good number of ratty old broken down arnines survived longer than some of the newer cars that were replaced on a basis of how badly rotted some of the other cars were. Maybe that logic will prevail again this time.Although the 32's are the oldest and logically should go first, a pretty fair number of them are still in very good shape. And there's probably some 40's and 42's that are also OK while some 44's and 46's are basket cases for various reasons. If the SHOPS get a say in what stays and what goes, the fleet may turn out to be a bit larger than planned until all of the replacements are in the door, with a corresponding benefit to service ... |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Feb 13 22:18:45 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Feb 13 16:03:52 2005. Your disclaimer is justified. The rumor is illogical. Who said the MTA was logical? Not in this case. They're dead wrong. Were you there when this was being discussed? |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Feb 13 22:29:34 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 13 22:17:28 2005. The 44's are the basket cases. I don't know of any current problems with the R46's. |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by ALSTOM R160A on Sun Feb 13 22:39:00 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Feb 13 22:29:34 2005. The R46's are great cars besides the doorchimes! |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 13 22:42:23 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Feb 13 22:29:34 2005. Nobody can accuse ME of keeping up with the defect sheets. :)Where I'm going though is sort out the wreckage, whatever car classes, and reef those puppies FIRST. My concern is that some pencilneck will start with consecutive car numbers and away they go. |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by Broadway Junction on Sun Feb 13 22:55:51 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by ALSTOM R160A on Sun Feb 13 22:39:00 2005. BAENNNNG BOONG! |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Feb 13 22:57:25 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Feb 13 22:13:15 2005. They can also change their bureaucratic minds at the last minute. |
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| (50527) | |
Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by ALSTOM R160A on Sun Feb 13 22:57:49 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by Broadway Junction on Sun Feb 13 22:55:51 2005. BAENNNNG BAENNNG!BING $%&*#(*! |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Feb 13 23:19:08 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Feb 13 22:18:45 2005. Were you there when this was being discussed?Believe him or not, but yes, Ron is implying that he knows something we all don't know. |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Feb 13 23:22:38 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by I Know Jack on Sun Feb 13 20:19:53 2005. Some R44's may be slow chargers, but so can any other piece of equipment if a compressor is dead in the consist. Are you saying brake pipe air (which is higher on the R44 than other cars in the fleet) fluctuates? I am no expert on R44's, have seldom operated them and try to avoid them like avoiding a wild dog, but the last time I operated one a few months ago brake pipe air remained steady. I have heard no complaints from other t/o's about fluctuating brake pipe pressure. The cab is too small for my size too. For a few days afterward, my back and shoulders were quite sore. |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by Metal Management INC on Sun Feb 13 23:31:04 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Feb 13 23:22:38 2005. They used to have fluctuations in BP pressure. There was a rash of them a few years ago, some causing BIEs. The donut seals on the couplers were blowing out air. I think Train DUde went into detail of what was actually wrong and causing the air leaks. The fluctuations were severe enough you could see the needles fall and rise when taking up slack or curves. Always at the C/R positions |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Feb 13 23:32:05 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by David of Broadway on Sun Feb 13 20:46:39 2005. Are the R143/R160's deeper? |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Feb 13 23:32:52 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Feb 13 23:32:05 2005. The R-44's are the un-deepest. EVERYTHING else is deeper. |
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| (50548) | |
Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by I Know Jack on Sun Feb 13 23:53:36 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by David on Sun Feb 13 20:58:48 2005. The problem is 2 compressors for 4 cars doesn't seem to work well on 75'cars. I guess this was taken into account when the R-68s were linked because they left the 3rd compressor. The R-46 work because they have WABCO compressors instead of the ones on the 44s.I remember operating the R-44s before overhaul. The cabs were the same size but they were not as tight. Yes, part of the problem is that I've gained a few but the new console/master controller take up alot more space too. |
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| (50550) | |
Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by I Know Jack on Sun Feb 13 23:56:39 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Feb 13 23:22:38 2005. I didn't say anything about fluctuating air. I'm told by people in the shop that the compressors just don't have enough capacity to keep up with the leaky air system. I've had trains where the compressor on the lead motor never seems to stop running. |
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| (50553) | |
Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 14 00:04:53 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Feb 13 23:32:05 2005. The 143's are like sitting on a sofa in your living room. Only thing that bites about the 143's is the stupid location of the controller. Otherwise I was MOST impressed when I had a wee bit of handle time on 8101-8108 before they were "accepted" from the vendor after testing. |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by #3 West End Jeff on Mon Feb 14 00:11:11 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 14 00:04:53 2005. Selkirk:I have a picture of you sitting in front of the controller of an R-143. #3 West End Jeff |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Feb 14 00:14:01 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by Metal Management INC on Sun Feb 13 23:31:04 2005. So it is not an issue today, Monday 2/14/05. |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 14 00:14:35 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by #3 West End Jeff on Mon Feb 14 00:11:11 2005. Heh. I'm "famous" ... (grin) For a "modern trainset" I actually LIKE the 143's ... but that controller location. Agggh. :( |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Feb 14 00:18:15 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by I Know Jack on Sun Feb 13 23:56:39 2005. When you said the cars don't have enough air for consistent operation I construed that as fluctuating air. |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 14 00:35:43 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Feb 14 00:18:15 2005. The 44's were JUST coming in as I was headed out of there, but if I remember, they had an INSANELY high brake pipe - something like 140 or 160? I could see "pumpitude" and "blow-by" being quite a problem with those, but I was out of there before being asked to qualify on them. |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Feb 14 01:19:13 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 14 00:35:43 2005. Both the R-44 and R-46 had no feed valves - pre GOH (IIRC) and both operated with brake pipe pressure of 135 - 150 PSI. The difference was & is that R-46s had WABCO D4S compressors while the R-44 was originally delivered with a WABCO D3 compressors that were replaced by Knorr units. The knorr units leave a little to be desired. |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by M15 to South Ferry on Mon Feb 14 01:20:37 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 13 22:17:28 2005. I sure hope so, it makes sense based on the car not the age. And that's how it should be done based on the car itself. |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by M15 to South Ferry on Mon Feb 14 01:26:28 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Feb 13 16:24:20 2005. I dunno, I have a feeling the R42's will be going to CI to replace the R40S, when the 4-car R160 sets arrive for the J/M lines.I agree I don't think the R44's will last long and who knows maybe the R38's will go after or b4 the R44's. But anyone know if the R38 [structure wise] is better than the R42? |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 14 01:28:03 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by Train Dude on Mon Feb 14 01:19:13 2005. Thanks, buddy! I vaguely remember the numbers being way up there - arnines were happy around 70 and if you got your needle up past 90, it was time to use the crew key and bail because she was gonna BLOW! :)Never heard of "Knorr" though - mental associations of lentil and chicken nodule come to mind, not straight air. Gimme a D2F *any* day. Heh. Geez, sounds like you guys would have been just as well off with SEARS units cranking under there. :( |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by M15 to South Ferry on Mon Feb 14 01:28:16 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by ALSTOM R160A on Sun Feb 13 18:11:01 2005. Exactly. And the R46 has a MASSIVE fleet. If they MTA were to ever replace the R46 as well they'd probably take those funds away from one of the projects yet to be completed SAS, ESA, etc. |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Feb 14 01:45:15 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by ALSTOM R160A on Sun Feb 13 18:11:01 2005. The math is very simple.A) 1700 R-160 = 102,000 feet of subway cars B) 196 R-38s = 11,760 feet C) R40 & R42 combined = 46,920 feet D) R44 fleet = just 20,400 feet E) R46 = 56,400 feet F) R32s = 35,600 You can scrap any combination of B, C, D, E, & F without reducing service (and spare factors) as long as the sum does not excede A. |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 14 01:47:30 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by Train Dude on Mon Feb 14 01:45:15 2005. I'm reminded somehow of the "miles of cars" in that movie, "Used Cars." :)Here's hoping that Branford gets its wish of a pair of Lowrey R40's some day. |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Feb 14 01:50:56 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 14 01:47:30 2005. An R-40 with a trolley pole? Blasphemy, pure blasphemy! |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by Jeff H. on Mon Feb 14 02:29:10 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 14 01:47:30 2005. That is not Branford's "wish". |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 14 02:58:50 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by Train Dude on Mon Feb 14 01:50:56 2005. Yeah, said that about arnines with one too ... but I had to ask myself, would the teeyay let me run one on THEIR tracks? Nay ... I remember all the strings that had to be pulled to get me about 15 minutes of handle time on a non-revenue, not yet accepted set of 143's still in testing and some wink-wink-nod-nod from some wiglets at Jay Street who made it all come together "as a favor to the Governor" ... I can't IMAGINE getting to pull the lever and getting a payout TWICE in the same life. :)When ya gets older, ya learns that sometimes you just have to settle for what you CAN get. Trolley pole no problem, I'll just keep my eyes closed when keying in, bang my cane all over the car and then climb into the cab and let it rip, causing the geese to flee screaming. I kinda LIKE that thought, it'd bring the school car lecture to life. Heh. But given a choice between BVE and 600 volts - I'll take the electric seat, thank ya. |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 14 03:03:56 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by Jeff H. on Mon Feb 14 02:29:10 2005. Sorry, too vague ... lemme rephrase ... it is the wish of SOME at Branford, including me, once some Rockfeller dies and leaves the estate to put that second track back in, acquire the VILLAGE and build brick car shops to house everything. And a heated pool to swim in. :) |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Feb 14 06:50:41 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 14 02:58:50 2005. Letting it rip at Branford? They let the subway cars go a whole 25MPH or something. Whoop-dee-do. Send some subway cars to the Electric City Trolley Museum where they'd be able to run on track that is pretty solidly attached to the ground and would allow 45MPH through the 1-mile long Crown Avenue tunnel. |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Feb 14 06:51:24 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 14 01:47:30 2005. Here's hoping that Branford gets its wish of a pair of Lowrey R40's some day.That would be cool. |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Feb 14 07:02:52 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 14 01:28:03 2005. Knorr Brake Corp., Ontario, CA supplied the brakes for the R62A. Here is their website: Knorr Brakehttp://www.knorrbrakecorp.com/masstransit.html |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Feb 14 07:03:29 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Feb 14 07:02:52 2005. That's Canada, not California. |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? (Branford sucks?!?!) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 14 07:44:07 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Feb 14 06:50:41 2005. Bullshirt! There's folks here who were along on an outing with me, and at least on 1689, I *maxed her OUT* ... thanks to having no the cars on the wire at the time, I got maximo amperage and got her up to near 50 before I had to brake for Riverside Curve. You shoulda SEEN Unca Lou's face. I actually SCARED him! Heh.Branford is 2.5 miles worth, but letting subway cars run wide open comes down to SERIOUS experience in knowing the limits, knowing the railroad and earning the trust of those who let you "wrap it" ... and 6688 has even MORE ballz than 1689 owing to them peppy motors. 50+ easily. It's all a question of knowing HOW to wrap it, being able to think SAFELY four seconds ahead of the train, and APPLYING at the right moment ONCE you've built your speed as the cams unwind. If you know HOW to do it, you can get the speed you need at Branford for a GREAT ride. However, only an experienced (this is not ego, this is SAFETY) motorman on arnines can wind them up, and get them back down to a safe speed FAST (without tearing up the fishplates) *JUST* in time for Riverside curve. Now I'll admit - that curve right smack in the middle of an otherwise good run SUCKS ... but you work the railroad you got. But rest assured, in the hands of a SAFE operator with some stones, 1689 ran as fast (or ever so SLIGHTLY faster) than she EVER did in Queens. :) Anyone who rode with Unca Selkirk at the throttle, wanna tell him about the ride? Heh. |
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Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 14 07:54:01 2005, in response to Re: Retirement Plans for R44/46?, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Feb 14 06:51:24 2005. I wouldn't mind seeing it, if there's any left that *CAN* be "restored" ... but Unca Jeff whacked my peepee - there's only a handful of people at Branford who wanna see it, and I don't think there's any on the board. 75 footers ain't gonna happen there - ain't the room to get a 67 footer running or stored. As it is, even the 60 footers like 1689 can't go around the loop to be turned, so I could definitely see a PAIR of 40's being a big problem (assuming that storage space for them magically appeared too) ... but the 40's are about to go byebye soon, and it SURE would be nice if some SERIOUS fundraising to bring them to Branford and cherry them out could be done.CRACKPIPE dream to be sure - but there's many of us there who would LOVE to see it happen, if only the money to accomdate and maintain them could be had ... |
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