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| Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld (497694) | |
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| (499561) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Oct 6 20:45:41 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Oct 6 20:19:11 2007. The biggest obstacle to catenary is not fiscal; it's physical. Some questions: How to be able to run catenary in the Park Avenue Tunnel? Is it similarly a problem in the Atlantic Avenue Tunnel? And in the lower level of the 63rd Street Tunnel? This engineering challenge is the most formidable obstacle to a potentially very good improvement in the regional rail network.Well, the standard approach would be to lower the trackbed... |
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| (499562) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Oct 6 20:53:08 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Oct 6 20:45:41 2007. "Well, the standard approach would be to lower the trackbed... "Definitely. But I wonder how that works in Manhattan, where there are no doubt wires and pipes of all sorts roaming under the pavement. The 63rd St. Tunnel might present other difficulties. Although possibly - I don't know - this standard solution would work under Atlantic Avenue. |
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| (499567) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Oct 6 21:10:29 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Oct 6 20:53:08 2007. In park Avenue tunnel there is no way to go down, conduits, water lines and 63 Ave subway are in the way. The tracks in park avenue tunnel are actually laying on roof of 63 treet subway tunnel.other obstructions are any and alloverpasses/ bridges in bronx. including the tunnel at melrose(cp106) with a building on top. |
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| (499568) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Oct 6 21:17:29 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Oct 6 21:10:29 2007. Aye!So remove the Park Avenue roadbed, let the tracks be taller, and then put a new street on top of that if anybody thinks they need one anymore, what with congestion pricing and the eventual closing of the CBD to private vehicles. ROAR |
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| (499569) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Oct 6 21:20:10 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Oct 6 21:17:29 2007. Iike thats gone happen, Park avenue will never return to open cut. other than on your model choo choo. |
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| (499571) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Oct 6 21:25:40 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Oct 6 21:10:29 2007. Indeed, that's what I thought: a formidable physical obstacle in the Park Avenue Tunnel to installing catenary. Regardless of catenary's merits, at least in the MNCR system, third rail is here to stay, at least on the railroad's signature stretch. |
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| (499574) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Oct 6 21:32:13 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Oct 6 21:20:10 2007. While I agree that the modern look of Park Avenue will most definitely stay, how much more clearance would be required? |
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| (499580) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Oct 6 21:40:57 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Oct 6 21:32:13 2007. The Park Avenue tunnel is about 3 foot 6 inch to low for 12 Kv catenary |
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| (499582) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Oct 6 22:00:40 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Oct 6 21:40:57 2007. Thanks for the stat. Off to the east, in other news, utility lines are already being relocated for the SAS. Current story here: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/07/nyregion/07subway.html |
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| (499586) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sat Oct 6 22:25:59 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Oct 6 22:00:40 2007. Linked. |
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| (500085) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by Russ on Mon Oct 8 13:06:26 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Oct 6 21:40:57 2007. The Park Avenue tunnel is about 3 foot 6 inch to low for 12 Kv catenaryUse catenary leading up to Park Avenue, and third rail in it. |
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| (500088) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 8 13:24:25 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 6 06:07:38 2007. Was it a waste to bring the LIE to Riverhead? I think so. Keeping electric LIRR out of Greenport so they can't compete with road?Uhhhhh, YES it's an utter waste of resources. There are WAY more pressing projects that need to be done before you waste valuable, and limited funds on electric in Greenport. You have the third mainline track, ESA, double tracking to Ronkonkoma, double tracking to Port Jefferson. Electrification to Patchogue. Electrification to Oyster Bay. Electrificication to Speonk. Station rehabs. Parking lot rehabs. Train replacement. All sorts of things that are WAY more pressing than 'Electrification to Greenport". So YES, it is a total waste of valuable and limited transit funds at this time. |
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| (500090) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 8 13:26:47 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Oct 6 18:29:14 2007. I'm surprised that with the newer dual mode locomotives, the Cannonball DOESN'T begin at Penn StationYou even think of running those basket cases on that train? Perhaps they're scared that the DM30AC's will crap out in an East River tunnel and FUBAR the entire system. Haha, probably. |
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| (500091) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 8 13:28:38 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Oct 6 18:35:50 2007. Until 1998, you could ride in LIRR trains in thye last open vestibule of the last car on many Montauk runs. The very long 14 car Montauk trains they used to run until then would usually have two or three GP38s, all on the front, and the back was almost like an observation car (although you had to watch the brake dust from getting in your eyes. Damn, I miss the old trains, I had lots of good times on the back of those trains.... |
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| (500105) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Oct 8 13:54:29 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Oct 6 21:40:57 2007. Dig under!Utilities can be relocated! |
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| (500106) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Oct 8 14:01:33 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 8 13:24:25 2007. Agreed. Electrifying to Greenport doesn't make much sense either, given the difficulties presently under discussion right now in the topic on reverse-peak Ronkonkoma Branch service.To be sure, each year now, commuting, has increased to the North Fork, especially weekenders to and from New York. But that can be remedied easily enough by a few more Greenport trains. Right now, speaking from experience, service is far too paltry to seriously compete with bus service. My feeling is that if a few more trains were added - nevermind a direct train from New York that is unimaginable given the "lemon" locomotives - to increase frequency of service, that would be seen as an improvement by the weekender crowd going to the attractions on the North Fork, including a great wine industry. Weekdays except Fridays, there are 2 trains per day to Greenport; Friday sees one extra. Weekends, there are 2 trains per day to Greenport. Of course, given the news about the diesel locomotives, maybe that explains a lot of things. |
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| (500107) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Oct 8 14:04:12 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 8 13:24:25 2007. Electrifying to greenport(and EVERYWHERE else in they NY commuter system) would likely be cheaper then purchasing and maintaining diesels for the future. |
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| (500109) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 8 14:04:50 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Oct 8 14:01:33 2007. Oh absolutely! Greenport service is far from handled correctly, but electrification is just a bit over the edge at this time, with so many more important projects that would be needed to be done. Greenport definitely needs more service, but electrification, at this time, is not the way to go about it. At the very leaset, the LIRR really needs to increase diesel service between Riverhead and Ronkonkoma, making it a usable service.The next electrification project the LIRR is planning is electrification to Yaphank or Manorville, and of course in increase of service with that. |
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| (500110) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 8 14:07:34 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by R30A on Mon Oct 8 14:04:12 2007. Agreed, the money is just not coming for such a project at this time, there are many other things they must do first, including finishing the ESA, the third mainline track, and double tracking both Ronkonkoma and Port Jefferson, and electrication first to Yaphank. At that point, and only then can the start thinking of some of the other places to electrify, such as perhaps Patchouge, Speonk, or even revisit Port Jefferson or Oyster Bay. I can see EVERY other line electrified before they should even think of between Riverhead and Greenport. That would be the LAST place it would be done if it would ever happen. |
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| (500111) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Oct 8 14:13:19 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by R30A on Mon Oct 8 14:04:12 2007. However, regarding the Waterbury, one should really consider whether or not that line is simply worth selling off...with very little possibility for expansion. |
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| (500112) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Oct 8 14:21:21 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by R30A on Mon Oct 8 13:54:29 2007. Um NO.There are no utilities under the Park Avenue ROW. There are more TRAINS under there. GCT is on two levels, remember. |
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| (500113) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Oct 8 14:22:16 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 8 14:07:34 2007. The whole system should be electrified as part of one project.If you use Cat, it REALLY wouldnt be that expensive. |
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| (500114) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Oct 8 14:22:54 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Oct 8 14:13:19 2007. No. As it is currently getting expanded service, clearly CDOT (Rightly)disagrees with you. |
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| (500115) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Oct 8 14:23:33 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Oct 8 14:21:21 2007. GCT isnt the area with the problem.I suspect there is clearance within the station. |
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| (500116) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 8 14:35:03 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by R30A on Mon Oct 8 14:22:16 2007. I would love to see it all under cat, but we still need extra tracks laid on some lines, and if you are doing that, the entire rolling stock will also need to be replaced, including the M7's they just invested in. |
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| (500132) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Oct 8 15:43:39 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 8 14:35:03 2007. Well, the entire current rolling stock will eventually have to be replaced, but the current third-rail network need not go into disuse until that point. As NYP in our area shows, one can have catenary co-exist with third rail. The catenary can at first be used by catenary-powered trains coming in from non-electrified territory, and then once the M7 cars are ready for reefing - the M3 cars will by then be long gone - in currently third-rail electrified territory too.The major obstacle to catenary seems to be clearance in tight spots, e.g., Park Avenue Tunnel, Atlantic Avenue Tunnel, (maybe 63 St Tunnel too). But a large part of LIRR territory is amenable, it seems, to the technology, especially since the diesel and dual-mode equipment does not at all seem cost-effective in the long-term, especially with the current equipment. |
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| (500332) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon Oct 8 21:52:43 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by Russ on Mon Oct 8 13:06:26 2007. question is why ?? if you still need the expensive bi-mode electric cars.and it would do nothing for Harlem Hudson equipment. |
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| (500333) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon Oct 8 21:54:26 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Oct 8 14:21:21 2007. The clearances are in park avenue tunnel, not the terminal. and yes utilities and a subway tunnel prevent the roadbed to be lowered. |
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| (500357) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Oct 8 22:18:38 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon Oct 8 21:54:26 2007. 63rd tunnel is not in the way... If the roof of it is, then the roof can be lowered. |
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| (500571) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Oct 9 19:37:50 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by R30A on Mon Oct 8 22:18:38 2007. were you tested for retatdation ?? |
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| (500573) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Oct 9 19:41:49 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by R30A on Mon Oct 8 22:18:38 2007. 63rd tunnel is not in the way60th St tunnel is much nearer the surface. It's just below the 6, and it's not very deep at 5th Ave, so I strongly suspect it's just below MNRR too. |
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| (500669) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by R30A on Tue Oct 9 21:15:03 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Oct 9 19:37:50 2007. Have you ever seen the 63rd tunnel???Even with its soaring ceilings, I highly doubt that tunnel is in the way-- it is WAY too deep. if 63rd is in the way, then the significantly shallower 53rd and 60th would go THRU the MNCR line. |
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| (500714) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by R30A on Tue Oct 9 23:44:32 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by AlM on Tue Oct 9 19:41:49 2007. Certainly it is, but by at 60th, I think there is room above anyway. |
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| (501052) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Oct 10 18:28:31 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 8 13:28:38 2007. Until 1998, you could ride in LIRR trains in thye last open vestibule of the last car on many Montauk runs. The very long 14 car Montauk trains they used to run until then would usually have two or three GP38s, all on the front, and the back was almost like an observation car (although you had to watch the brake dust from getting in your eyes. Damn, I miss the old trains, I had lots of good times on the back of those trains....:-( If only they had a museum train... |
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| (501081) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Oct 10 19:09:05 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Oct 10 18:28:31 2007. Yes, it sucks....But the New York and Atlantic does own a few of the old LIRR GP38's, and the LIRR does own a few MP15's yet in work service, as does the NY&A...and there are still two coaches for steam engine 39 in Riverhead, and two coaches for Engine 35 at the Oyster Bay RR museum, so...it's not out of the relhm of possibility.... |
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| (501087) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by R30A on Wed Oct 10 19:28:48 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 6 16:48:10 2007. And you know where everyone gets on???From that Penn-Jamaica shuttle... |
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| (501226) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Oct 10 22:51:15 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by R30A on Wed Oct 10 19:28:48 2007. You sure it's everyone?By your logic, it should have been one of the first trains switched into Penn. But it hasn't been. Therefore, there must be a flaw in your logic. |
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| (501237) | |
Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Oct 10 23:05:09 2007, in response to Re: LIRR needs to improve ROW maintenance; new dieseld, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Oct 10 22:51:15 2007. No, most of it's riders get on at Jamaica from some other trains that came from Penn, the connecting trains.The Canonball is only a big deal Friday summer evenings. The full dual mode train is a daily train. |
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