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| (328129) | |
Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Secondavesubway on Tue Oct 24 10:40:49 2006 Daily News Article:Second Ave. subway plan picks up speed Breaking ground on the Second Avenue subway - a dream for generations - is just months away, transit officials said yesterday. The Metropolitan Transportation Authority hopes to award a contract to build a new tunnel for the East Side subway line by year's end, Mysore Nagaraja, president of the MTA's Capital Construction Co., said. A giant underground boring machine will be used to drill through the rock below Second Avenue between 92nd and 63rd Sts., making progress at an estimated 40 to 50 feet a day, officials said. Before the tunneling begins, possibly as early as next summer, the MTA will excavate a launch site for the boring machine. That work - and other preparations - could start in late December or early next year, Nagaraja said. "After 60 years of planning, we are now building," Nagaraja said. The first leg of the project will feature stations at 96th, 86th and 72nd Sts., and new entrances to the existing 63rd St. station on the Broadway line. Trains would switch over to the Broadway line at 63rd St. The $3.8 billion first phase of the Second Avenue subway is scheduled to be completed in 2013; it will carry about 200,000 riders a day. The Federal Transit Administration is expected to give the MTA the green light soon to begin construction in anticipation of a full-funding agreement with the agency. That commits the feds to steady, long-term funding. MTA Chairman Peter Kalikow has vowed not to step down until he's satisfied that the Second Avenue subway, and the planned LIRR extension to Grand Central, are well on their way toward fruition. Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, the leading gubernatorial candidate, has said he wants new leadership at the MTA. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by shadyelstation on Tue Oct 24 10:44:43 2006, in response to Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Secondavesubway on Tue Oct 24 10:40:49 2006. 'Bout damn time...they better not stall this much needed project any longer. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Allan on Tue Oct 24 10:52:03 2006, in response to Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Secondavesubway on Tue Oct 24 10:40:49 2006. I'll believe it when it actually happens. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Oct 24 10:54:10 2006, in response to Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Secondavesubway on Tue Oct 24 10:40:49 2006. Linked: http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/464778p-390921c.html_________________________ "After 60 years of planning, we are now building," Nagaraja said. Um, you forgot about the building in the 1970s. Give credit where credit is due... |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Allan on Tue Oct 24 10:57:17 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Oct 24 10:54:10 2006. and considering that the 2nd Av subway has been in planning since the 1920's, 80 years is more correct. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 10:59:03 2006, in response to Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Secondavesubway on Tue Oct 24 10:40:49 2006. I can't see Elliot Spitzer cancelling the SAS. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Hoghead on Tue Oct 24 11:31:43 2006, in response to Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Secondavesubway on Tue Oct 24 10:40:49 2006. Spitzer supports the 2nd Ave subway.Link |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Oct 24 13:23:55 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Hoghead on Tue Oct 24 11:31:43 2006. Lindsay, Rockefeller, and Ronan all supported the SAS back in the 1970s but the overwhelming debt incurred by authorities like Triborough as well as shortsighted attempts to keep the fare down derailed those plans. Just because the project has political support and an unimpeachable reason for the expenditure does not mean it will actually get built. Here's hoping that when Paturkey finally gets out of office we don't find out he, D'Amato, Bruno and the rest of the state republicans somehow have either wracked up debt or something to prevent the SAS's construction. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Oct 24 13:31:33 2006, in response to Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Secondavesubway on Tue Oct 24 10:40:49 2006. I'll believe it when I'm riding on it, not before.Besides, the whole thing is less than two miles long (33 city blocks). It more like a 2nd Avenue Shuttle than a real line. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Oct 24 13:39:51 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Oct 24 13:31:33 2006. No, it is nothing like a shuttle. What it is everything like is an extension. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Oct 24 14:07:17 2006, in response to Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Secondavesubway on Tue Oct 24 10:40:49 2006. The first leg of the project will feature stations at 96th, 86th and 72nd Sts., and new entrances to the existing 63rd St. station on the Broadway line.No one else seems to have noticed this statement. Most of the time if you stand at 63rd Street you have a pretty long wait for the next Broadway train. I wonder whose error this is - the Daily News (sending a reporter who doesn't know transit) or the MTA (assigning the writing of the press release to someone who doesn't know transit)? |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Oct 24 14:13:21 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by AlM on Tue Oct 24 14:07:17 2006. They just got confused because when it opens, it WILL be on the Broadway line. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Oct 24 14:25:29 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Oct 24 10:54:10 2006. Right, and everyone is all excited about this, but the SAS has been on this road before.....Let's hope this time it sticks. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 14:27:03 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Oct 24 13:39:51 2006. Hey, it's something to ride. Plus, even before you ride it it's something to photograph and put in your album. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by tydev417 on Tue Oct 24 14:27:22 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Oct 24 13:31:33 2006. 2nd Avenue Shuttle? The (Q) will be taking over this line so it would just be an extension of an already long line. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 14:30:10 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by AlM on Tue Oct 24 14:07:17 2006. Of course, if you crossed through the wall you could admire the laid up Q Trains parked there. nycsubway.org states that the tracks in the BMT 63/Lex station side have power and trains are laid up there. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 14:30:32 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Oct 24 14:25:29 2006. Or rather, digs... |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Oct 24 14:32:33 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 14:30:32 2006. But that's my point, it DID dig in the 70's.... |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 14:34:05 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by tydev417 on Tue Oct 24 14:27:22 2006. A middling line, actually, in length. I'm guessing the A, the C, the F, and the N and the 2 and 5 will still be longer even when the Q is extended to 125 Street.The 2nd Av T line, at full length not counting planned or unplanned extension to the Bronx or Brooklyn, will be shorter than the 7 is now, not counting the 7's planned extension to Javits. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Oct 24 14:36:31 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Oct 24 13:31:33 2006. Correct, but they have to start somewhere. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 14:36:39 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Oct 24 14:32:33 2006. Agreed.You know about Future shock (Alvin Toffler's book). We have Future Dig... |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Oct 24 14:38:10 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by AlM on Tue Oct 24 14:07:17 2006. Yeah..I noticed...but you have to remember that it coming from the news..so you MUST take the report with a grain of salt.We know the east end of the 63rd street/Lexington Ave station entrance is on 3rd Avenue.It is currently being used as a sitting area/small park.. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Oct 24 14:38:37 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 14:30:10 2006. There are photos of trains laid up there. A MOD train even WENT back there. Yes, the tracks are powered and yes they are used daily. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Oct 24 14:46:38 2006, in response to Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Secondavesubway on Tue Oct 24 10:40:49 2006. The $3.8 billion first phase of the Second Avenue subway is scheduled to be completed in 2013; it will carry about 200,000 riders a day.According to the 2003 Hub Bound Study, 625,000 cross the 60th St threshold each day on the Lex. The FEIS stated that load factor of trains arriving from the Bronx at 125th is 0.60 and that the load factor at the 60th St threshold is 1.10. That means that 284,000 of the riders crossing the 60th St threshold originated from Manhattan. Assuming that people will use the closest station, then the choice is 50-50 between the Lex and the SAS. N.B. I've ignored that there will be no SAS service north of 96th. I've also assumed that population is evenly distributed between 5th Ave and the river. That puts the projected SAS use at slightly under 150,000. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Oct 24 14:55:42 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Oct 24 14:32:33 2006. Funny..The TA KNEW BETTER...when they started the SAS construction in the early 70's... The plan was to get a section up and running so it could be somewhat useable..with the rest coming on line by the mid-90's. Starting in upper Manhattan..then jumping to lower..effectivly killed it before it got off the ground.. The reason for this..someone had the bright idea to build them spaced apart with monies alread availible...and have the FEDS shell out the rest to connect the sections together... The FEDS saw right through this..and only handed the TA 600 million.. 600 million for the WHOLE NEW ROUTES PROGRAM[out of 2.5 BILLION!] Common sense would have told them to build the section that would have carried the most people at the time...[from 63rd st to 105th].. When the bottom dropped out of the City in 1974/75...the MTA was holding the bag...PLUS our current Mayor pulled the wool over our eyes by shuffling funds around from the NRP to save the subway fare..a fare that went up ANYWAY! Shoddy deals..double dipping..and all we got out of it was a subway tunnel that took 20 years to half way finish...and another[that leaks like a sleave]that took 18 years. The SAS? HAh.. cost around 83 million dollars to finish the section started..without connection to the larger system..rendering them completely useless. Funny..now its costing them three times as much to build it. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Oct 24 15:01:03 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Edwards! on Tue Oct 24 14:55:42 2006. Yup, hopefully this time it will work. I am all for them do section by small section. Personally, I find that to make more sense.Even if they had to do it station by station.... Something is better than nothing, and a whole lot of somethings connected together together is a whole line..... BTW, anyone know how long the existing sections are, and where they are? I believe they are using them for the current plan? At least the ones in Upper Manhattan anyway.... |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Oct 24 15:10:03 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Oct 24 15:01:03 2006. Well,the longest runs from 110th st to 120th...the other runs from 99th to 105..and the last COMPLETED section is downtown...at the foot of the Manhattan Bridge..about 700 ft long. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Oct 24 15:13:04 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Oct 24 13:39:51 2006. No, it is like a shuttle. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by jimmymc25 on Tue Oct 24 15:13:22 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Edwards! on Tue Oct 24 15:10:03 2006. And were those sections dug for 4 tracks or 2?I know the current plan is for a 2 track line, but I was wondering what they did back in the early 70's. Jimmymc25 |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Oct 24 15:15:08 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by jimmymc25 on Tue Oct 24 15:13:22 2006. 2 tracks with most..with one section having three for layups and repair purposes. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 15:16:56 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Oct 24 14:46:38 2006. "That means that 284,000 of the riders crossing the 60th St threshold originated from Manhattan."Did you forget about riders arriving from Brooklyn? How about the percentage of riders getting off the Queens Blvd. lines at 59 Street? The number of riders getting off the 7 at 42nd St and transferring? The growing number of riders getting off the BMT L subway and transferring? Riders coming from the Staten Island Ferry? You can make an equatio say whatever you want when you delete numbers which are not convenient to you. That is why, if the TA says 200,000 a day, I'm more inclined to believe the TA than to believe you. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Oct 24 15:19:18 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Oct 24 15:13:04 2006. A shuttle would not connect to another line, like the Rock Shuttle or the Franklin shuttle. When however, for example, the A is extended to Rockaway Park, it is not a shuttle. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Oct 24 15:20:44 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Oct 24 14:32:33 2006. Until I see Q trains with "96th St/2nd Ave" signage, I won't get excited. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Oct 24 15:20:52 2006, in response to Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Secondavesubway on Tue Oct 24 10:40:49 2006. I'll believe it when the tunnel boring begins. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Oct 24 15:22:32 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 14:34:05 2006. The T will never run, none of the planned line south of 63rd St. will be built. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by jimmymc25 on Tue Oct 24 15:23:48 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Edwards! on Tue Oct 24 15:15:08 2006. Okay, cool.Thanks for the info!! Jimmymc25 |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by R4 Bryn Mawr LCL/R5 Paoli EXP on Tue Oct 24 15:24:17 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Oct 24 14:46:38 2006. Is that both directions or downtown AM/uptown PM? It seems like people would be using the SAS in both directions. And you didn't account for new ridership. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Oct 24 15:24:51 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Oct 24 15:20:44 2006. Trust me, I will wheel right over there in my wheelchair from the nursing home..... |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 15:25:12 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Oct 24 13:31:33 2006. Newsday linkNewsday screwed up the service details.... |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Oct 24 15:27:31 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by R4 Bryn Mawr LCL/R5 Paoli EXP on Tue Oct 24 15:24:17 2006. You are right-- there will be new ridership, including former bus riders. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Oct 24 15:29:02 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Oct 24 15:20:52 2006. I won't untill I swipe my MetroCard at one of the new stations. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Oct 24 15:30:43 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Oct 24 15:24:51 2006. I feel confident that the section north of 63rd will be built in my lifetime, at least to 96th St. The section below 63rd won't ever leave the drawing board. The MTA was forced to commit to that to get Silver's backing for the "stubway", the only part the MTA wants. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 15:30:46 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Edwards! on Tue Oct 24 15:29:02 2006. Yes, sir, Mr. Camus! |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Oct 24 15:31:24 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Oct 24 15:22:32 2006. I don't know...but I have a feeling that after the line goes to 125th st...the MOST they might do is the lower Manhattan section..due to the New East River Tunnel being built[If that ever get off the ground]..It's a wait and see type thing... |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Oct 24 15:31:39 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by jimmymc25 on Tue Oct 24 15:23:48 2006. Yup! |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 15:31:57 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Oct 24 15:30:43 2006. Previous posts from years ago had you swearing that none of the SAS would ever be built.By the way, the current Stubway does specify construction of tail tracks south of 63rd... |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Oct 24 15:32:01 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Oct 24 15:13:04 2006. How? The destination signs will read something to the effect of "96th St - Second Avenue" on one sign and "Coney Island" on the other. It will be running the full length of the Q route from 96th down Broadway, over the Bridge, and then down the Brighton to Coney Island, so how is that a shuttle and not an extension? |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 15:33:33 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by WillD on Tue Oct 24 15:32:01 2006. Newsday called it a shuttle and misrepresented the service plan. It had new service running from 96th/Second av and terminating at 63rd/Lex, were people would transfer. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Oct 24 15:34:34 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 15:31:57 2006. Prior to 9/11, I DID feel the line would never be built. But federal funding has been easier to come by since. There are "tail tracks" east of Jamaica Center on the E. Their construction means squat. |
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Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Oct 24 15:37:24 2006, in response to Re: Second Ave Subway ........ Finally, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Oct 24 15:33:33 2006. Shows that you can't trust everything you read...or see. |
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