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| MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday (316805) | |
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| (316805) | |
MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by chuchubob on Thu Sep 28 22:17:33 2006 Silverliner II at 30th Street R3 train 327 just arrived at Media  Media Trolley in Media   Sharon Hill Trolley arriving at 69th Street Terminal  Market-Frankford M-4's at 69th St  Status of track rebuilding on Frankford branch: Berks  York-Dauphin  Allegheny  Frankford Transp Ctr   Girard Ave    Broad Street   City Hall  Fern Rock    City Hall  MFSE: eastbound train at 56th Street went out of service   trackwork in progress and 60th Street Station rebuilding     oos eastbound train moved west to the crossover east of 63rd St    eastbound service resumed   oos train disrupted trains coming out of the yard, so our train crossed over and entered 69th St Terminal on an outbound track   Norristown Transportation Center    Market Street El again    Bob |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu Sep 28 22:32:21 2006, in response to MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by chuchubob on Thu Sep 28 22:17:33 2006. Nice job!Your covered everything! |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Sep 28 22:42:31 2006, in response to MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by chuchubob on Thu Sep 28 22:17:33 2006. Great pics. 60th St is a work in progress but it's going to look very good. |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Sep 28 23:19:29 2006, in response to MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by chuchubob on Thu Sep 28 22:17:33 2006. Very nice work |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by JBar387 on Thu Sep 28 23:21:33 2006, in response to MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by chuchubob on Thu Sep 28 22:17:33 2006. Excellent Photos |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by J trainloco on Thu Sep 28 23:23:36 2006, in response to MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by chuchubob on Thu Sep 28 22:17:33 2006. Nice pictures. I like the cars on Market-Frankford. Do Philly subway cars ever run on other lines? (I.E. MF cars run on the BSS) |
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| (316859) | |
Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Sep 28 23:25:03 2006, in response to Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by J trainloco on Thu Sep 28 23:23:36 2006. They cannot, because the MFL is Pennsylvania standard gauge (5'6") while the Broad street Line is standard US railroad gauge. |
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| (316862) | |
Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by JBar387 on Thu Sep 28 23:26:27 2006, in response to Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by J trainloco on Thu Sep 28 23:23:36 2006. I have not seen that yet, I don't even think there is a way to even cross them over between lines. It would be interesting though! |
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| (316867) | |
Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by J trainloco on Thu Sep 28 23:30:41 2006, in response to Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Sep 28 23:25:03 2006. How/why did that happen? |
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| (316869) | |
Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Sep 28 23:37:49 2006, in response to Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by J trainloco on Thu Sep 28 23:30:41 2006. Historical. I don't remember which line was built first. Maybe somebody here knows the details. |
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| (316873) | |
Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by Mr. Harlem Line on Thu Sep 28 23:43:22 2006, in response to MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by chuchubob on Thu Sep 28 22:17:33 2006. Great pics! |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by JBar387 on Thu Sep 28 23:49:34 2006, in response to Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Sep 28 23:37:49 2006. I belive it is market el, but read this! |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by WillD on Fri Sep 29 00:07:14 2006, in response to Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by J trainloco on Thu Sep 28 23:30:41 2006. The MFL was designed for use with the PTC trolley lines. I believe for a short time before the 69th-30th St elevated along Market St was finished the PTC's trolleys did run down the center two tracks of the Market St Subway as well as the outer two tracks. These days the 4 track subway has the two outer tracks used by the Subway Surface trolleys while the two center tracks are used by the MFL. All tracks are built to Philadelphia Trolley gauge, but obviously the outer tracks have trolley wire while the inner tracks have underrunning third rail. The Rt101 and 102 Media/Sharon Hill lines (the pantograph equipped trolleys in ChuChuBob's photos) were also built to the same gauge, and through running is technically feasible, but those lines were owned by the Red Arrow, not the PTC, and SEPTA has maintained the division between the MFL, Subway Surface, and Media Sharon Hill lines.The BSS was built quite a bit later than the MFL and when it was designed they did so to BMT standards, down to the standard gauge and third rail type. I think intially there were thoughts of somehow either joining a branch of the Philadelphia and Western, today the Rt100, a standard gauge, third rail using LRT, with a BSS branch somehow. The BSS clearly was intended to be a higher capacity, higher speed service, while the MFL was simply a multicar trolley line either in the sky or underground. As designed the BSS was to incorporate branches bringing service to the far northwest, northeast, and southwest corners of the city, but budget shortfalls and the Great Depression brought those plans to an end. Today about the only chance we have to extend the subway somewhere useful is the planned Roosvelt Blvd Subway to Southampton Road. |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Sep 29 00:24:37 2006, in response to Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by WillD on Fri Sep 29 00:07:14 2006. I hope it gets done. |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Sep 29 06:10:03 2006, in response to Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Sep 28 22:42:31 2006. The entire West Philly EL, although taking a long time will be a "gem". I posted earlier that the construction aspects had me fooled and the basic structure has no sidewalk columns. The extra columns are only in the station areas. |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Sep 29 06:12:31 2006, in response to Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu Sep 28 22:32:21 2006. Bob always gets full day in, it's amazing. And what a great camera. |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Fri Sep 29 07:50:14 2006, in response to Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Sep 28 23:25:03 2006. MFSE is Philadelphia gauge, which is 5 feet, 2 and one quarter inch. Pennsylvania guage is 5 feet, 2 and one half inch.Bay Area Rapid Transit is 5'6", the widest track gauge in the US. |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Fri Sep 29 07:56:17 2006, in response to Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by JBar387 on Thu Sep 28 23:49:34 2006. The Market El was built by the Philadelphia Rapid Transit Company in 1906 to the Philadelphia streetcar gauge of 5 feet, 2 and one quarter inch. PRT work equipment was used to lay the track on the el.The Broad Street Subway was built by the City of Philadelphia in 1926, to BRT (BMT) standards, so it is standard gauge. |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by julie_profumo on Fri Sep 29 12:37:10 2006, in response to MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by chuchubob on Thu Sep 28 22:17:33 2006. Julie wonders when the elevated portions of the MFL were rebuilt, they were kept as solid viaducts rather than open structure. Opening the streets up to some sunlight would go a long way toward controlling blight along the ROW. |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by Market-Frankford on Fri Sep 29 13:01:58 2006, in response to Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by WillD on Fri Sep 29 00:07:14 2006. Franklin Mills makes much more sense. I have know idea why the report concluded that a line to Southampton would be better. |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by Market-Frankford on Fri Sep 29 13:02:41 2006, in response to Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by Market-Frankford on Fri Sep 29 13:01:58 2006. *no |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by chuchubob on Fri Sep 29 13:31:19 2006, in response to Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by julie_profumo on Fri Sep 29 12:37:10 2006. Meaning no disrespect, if Julie looks at the photos of the rebuilt sections of the El, she can see that they are solid. |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by WillD on Fri Sep 29 15:59:57 2006, in response to Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by julie_profumo on Fri Sep 29 12:37:10 2006. I believe it's Philadelphia's Building Code which probibits an elevated rail line from being constructed with an open truss below the tracks. The elevated must be constructed in such a manner that debris from the trains cannot fall on traffic, both pedestrian and vehicular, below the tracks. The PTC built the El between 63rd and 24th streets differently than the short section of el from 63rd to just east of Millbourne station. I can't find a picture of the actual transition, which is just east of the western platform end at 63rd St Station, but you can fairly easily see that the tracks to the west of 63rd are quite different in construction from the tracks to the east. The reason for the change at 63rd St is that that's where the Philadelphia/Delaware County border is, and the PTC wasn't about to spend any more money than they had to to complete the line to 69th.If SEPTA and the City of Philadelphia wanted to eliminate blight from Market Street between 63rd and 40th Sts they would have rebuilt the old elevated as a cut and cover subway. For all the massive problems the elevated reconstruction has created, for all the cost overruns it's been responsible for, and for all the businesses along Market St which have closed down they could have just underpinned the el, ripped up Market Street and had a subway from Millbourne through to Front and Market. Hell, if they felt like blowing a few more million dollars they probably could have bought up the first row of buildings on either side, torn them down, built a 4 track subway into the city, covered the subway with a 4 lane arterial over it and it STILL would have had a less detrimental effect on the neighborhood than the Market Street El's reconstruction. |
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| (317136) | |
Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by P-rad M on Fri Sep 29 16:15:03 2006, in response to MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by chuchubob on Thu Sep 28 22:17:33 2006. Really awesome pics! Touch up alot in Philly.P-rad M |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by Olney Terminal on Fri Sep 29 17:18:34 2006, in response to MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by chuchubob on Thu Sep 28 22:17:33 2006. coooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooolThe Frankford shot is pretty awesome. |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by julie_profumo on Sat Sep 30 10:32:11 2006, in response to Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by chuchubob on Fri Sep 29 13:31:19 2006. Thats what Julie said. She wanted to know why they did not use open structure when rebuilding it as in Chicago or NYC. |
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| (317321) | |
Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Sep 30 12:37:29 2006, in response to Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by Olney Terminal on Fri Sep 29 17:18:34 2006. That's my favorite. The train crossing over to start service southbound.I was there on the first train after the "Frankford Swing", when they swung over from the old alignment to the new terminal. |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by chuchubob on Sat Sep 30 19:11:55 2006, in response to Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by julie_profumo on Sat Sep 30 10:32:11 2006. Thank you for the clarification. Bob didn't quite comprehend Julie's unorthodox sentence structure, omitting the word "why". |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by Market-Frankford on Mon Oct 2 21:40:52 2006, in response to Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by WillD on Fri Sep 29 15:59:57 2006. Oh, right, so demolishing all of the business along Market has less of an effect than rebuilding the El in front of them? No. |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by Market-Frankford on Mon Oct 2 21:43:49 2006, in response to Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by julie_profumo on Sat Sep 30 10:32:11 2006. What do you mean by open structure like Chicago and NYC? You mean a wooden el?1. They can burn on fire (watch out for arsonists) 2. Workers can slip or trip and fall through and die 3. Debris can fall, which, as Will stated, is against building codes |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by mambomta on Mon Oct 2 22:00:24 2006, in response to Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by Market-Frankford on Mon Oct 2 21:43:49 2006. What do you mean by open structure like Chicago and NYC?Like this and this You mean a wooden el? When has there ever been an el made out of wood? |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Mon Oct 2 22:23:25 2006, in response to Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by Market-Frankford on Mon Oct 2 21:40:52 2006. Why would they have to demolish businesses? They would tear up the street and that would be it. |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by Market-Frankford on Wed Oct 4 17:32:57 2006, in response to Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by mambomta on Mon Oct 2 22:00:24 2006. By wood, I meant the crossties.   By open structure, I think she meant an el like in the pictures above. I don't think she meant one like the pics you linked to because there are no els in Chicago like that. Just for reference, here's a pic of the Market Street El again:  Note how no workers or debris can fall through to the street. |
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| (319227) | |
Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by Market-Frankford on Wed Oct 4 17:34:56 2006, in response to Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by The Port of Authority on Mon Oct 2 22:23:25 2006. His 4-track idea.WillD: Hell, if they felt like blowing a few more million dollars they probably could have bought up the first row of buildings on either side, torn them down, built a 4 track subway into the city, covered the subway with a 4 lane arterial over it and it STILL would have had a less detrimental effect on the neighborhood than the Market Street El's reconstruction. |
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| (319228) | |
Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by Market-Frankford on Wed Oct 4 17:35:48 2006, in response to MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by chuchubob on Thu Sep 28 22:17:33 2006. Nice photos. |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by mambomta on Wed Oct 4 18:00:17 2006, in response to Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by Market-Frankford on Wed Oct 4 17:32:57 2006. By wood, I meant the crossties.They now make plastic ties which, IIRC, NYCT is now testing. Also, the walkways and third rail covers are plastic or being replaced with plastic. I don't think she meant one like the pics you linked to because there are no els in Chicago like that. The els I linked to are the same as the top 2 pictures you posted except there are only 2 tracks on a 3-track wide el. Chicago & New York Els are very similar. The biggest differences are the covered third rails, & worker walkways(including the guardrails) Note how no workers or debris can fall through to the street. Workers can still fall from the walkways if they are not careful, just like in NYC. Also, on NYC els, there are little baskets between many of the ties to catch debris. |
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Re: MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday |
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Posted by South Ferry on Wed Oct 4 20:53:53 2006, in response to MANY SEPTA PHOTOS from last Tuesday, posted by chuchubob on Thu Sep 28 22:17:33 2006. PHEN-OM-ENAL. |
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