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| Re: Culver shuttle question (229408) | |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 13:10:27 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 12:54:01 2006. That's why I would probably go stir crazy working in one of the low use stations. Time goes much faster when you are busy. And I don't mean "Times Square" busy, but even just moderately busy will help get you through the day.To sit in any of the low use stations for any consecutive days can't possibly be good for someone's mental health!! |
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Re: Station Agent Booth choices Re:Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 13:11:48 2006, in response to Re: Station Agent Booth choices Re:Culver shuttle question, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 12:51:01 2006. Well that was my line back then, so what I posted is what I remember. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 13:22:01 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Steve on Mon Mar 20 10:25:03 2006. I wonder who that Larry Fendrick guy is.... :)http://www.culvershuttle.com/about.htm |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 13:22:40 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 13:04:01 2006. Books. Newspapers. Radios. There is NO excuse falling asleep. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 13:25:18 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 13:10:27 2006. If I didn't know any better I would have thought I was just listening to me talk about the job. You're not an agent, Are you? |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 13:30:07 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by subfan on Mon Mar 20 13:08:27 2006. Good question. I'm not sure if the remaining infrastructure was physically blocked off after it was closed in May 1975, until it was demolished in August 1985. Outside layups, I can't see it being used much, since it had no physical connection to the F at Ditmas Ave. By 1975, it was already a mess. I'm sure it deteriorated quickly after service terminated. What I find disappointing was that if the structure remained just another year or so, restortion of service might've been more feasible, given the M line's need for a new southern terminal after it was removed from the Brighton line. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by trains61 on Mon Mar 20 13:35:00 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 13:22:40 2006. Perfect mangement answer. You missed your calling. Lets see, kids kept you up all day, call from a buddy, working midnights with no volume of customers, what would you do? :( |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 13:36:10 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 13:22:40 2006. None at all. But it happens! |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 13:38:46 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by trains61 on Mon Mar 20 13:35:00 2006. To "excuse" falling asleep on the job is the perfect civil service attitude. There is NO excuse, because doing so results in private sector employees getting sacked. It's simply unacceptable under any circumstance. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 13:41:10 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by trains61 on Mon Mar 20 13:35:00 2006. Not to mention your body won't sleep because it's daylight! |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 13:47:49 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 13:25:18 2006. Hehe, no. But believe me, I have been at jobs where you are bored to death, and the day drags on forever. It's like that with any job where there is nothing going on. At least if you are dealing with customers, it helps pass the day (or night) - and keep you awake!I get more tired when doing "nothing" than when I would do hard physical labor all day. That's whay I think "Beach 105th St-Seaside" would be a curse rather than a blessing to work at. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by trains61 on Mon Mar 20 13:51:10 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 13:38:46 2006. So when your taxes go up and your unemployment benefit is nil due to the strain on the system, you won`t complain right? As Dounceman says its happens sometimes. Your Draconian attitude is perfect for mangement. The irony of it all is that most people that make those type of judgement on others would not last one month on midnights. 8th Ave. 42 st. 2:00 PM no excuse, 21 st Van Alst 2:00am excuse.That`s why we have Unions. They recognize the human element of the job. A few bad apples does not spoil the whole barrel, Unions protect the whole barrel. |
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| (230337) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 13:59:48 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 13:30:07 2006. Yup. When the M was thrown off the Brighton, it would have been the perfect solution for "what to do with the M train in South Brooklyn".The M service would have even complimented the old Culver shuttle route. For years, the M terminated at 9th Ave anyway. The M could have given 4th Ave the extra service it needed, and given the M a real purpose in South Brooklyn. The M could have run between Metropolitan Ave and Ditmas Ave rush hours and all day. The routes would compliment eachother, as nights and weekends when the M wasn't running you would have the Myrtle shuttle and Culver Shuttle respectively. It would have allowed culver riders south og Ditmas to retain easy access to the 4th Ave subway and Broadway in Manhattan, as well as given the M line a real purpose south of Broad. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 14:02:14 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by trains61 on Mon Mar 20 13:51:10 2006. Chris might be more of a supervisior who'd be on a "mission" to catch agents who seem to be asleep. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 14:02:39 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by trains61 on Mon Mar 20 13:51:10 2006. I don't agree. If you decide to work a job that requires nights, and low use boring stations, you have no more of a right to sleep on the job as someone who works Times Square does.No one is getting paid to sleep on the job. I acknowledged the fact that it has to be enough to go stir crazy working a low use station like Van Alst in the middle of the night. However, you STILL have absolutely no excuse to sleep on the job. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Mar 20 14:02:58 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by trains61 on Mon Mar 20 13:51:10 2006. Your Draconian attitude is perfect for mangement.Doesn't management also say that books, newspapers, and radio are prohibited? |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 14:06:54 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 13:59:48 2006. The old Culver shuttle route didn't really need any service at Fort Hamilton (it was a very short distance from the West End station with the same name), but the 13th Ave station would have probably been well utilized. I could see the old shuttle structure restored without Fort Hamilton Parkway included (like Dean St. on the Franklin). The real usefulness of this route would have been the connection between the F line and the old BMT. The 4th Ave/9th St. arrangement sucks and often forces you to ride ahead and backtrack. (like someone having to get from 18th Ave/Culver to 36th St/4th Av). Daily ridership may have decreased to 1,000 on the old shuttle at the end, but a restored structure featuring thru service to Manhattan and headways shorter than a 1 track shuttle allow would have definatley increased patronage. Alas, we'll never know. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 14:06:55 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 13:47:49 2006. During the day Seaside actually is a good booth to work in.It's not too dead or too busy. At meal time there are a few stores outside to stretch your legs getting something to eat. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 14:11:47 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by trains61 on Mon Mar 20 13:51:10 2006. What a load of garbage. Since when is insisting on remaining awake on the job "draconian"? I never said that there were reasons one could fall asleep on the job. But that doesn't excuse it. If unions exist to protect employees who sleep while being paid, as you insist, then it's time to phase all unions out. The civil service mentality is unbelievable at times. It's employees are totally out of touch with reality. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by BMT Standard on Mon Mar 20 14:11:57 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 13:59:48 2006. Through service from Ditmas Ave. was a waste starting in Oct., 1954 (when the D train started running through to Coney Island). Demoting the line to a shuttle was somewhat less wasteful (the extra service down the West End line served many more passengers).However, as I said before, the smart thing for the TA to have done would have been to just close the section between 9th and Ditmas back in 1954 rather than have it linger on for another two decades. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 14:12:37 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 14:02:39 2006. Please stop making sense. You'll get ostracized in here for doing so. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 14:13:10 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Mar 20 14:02:58 2006. Authorized radios only.Which means scanners belonging to TA. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 14:16:44 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by BMT Standard on Mon Mar 20 14:11:57 2006. Through service from Ditmas Ave. was a waste starting in Oct., 1954 Why was it any less of a waste than before the IND connection opened? The people at 13th and Fort Hamilton still needed to get to work. IIRC, the West End kept TWO rush hour services well into the 1960's (Broadway T, Nassau St. TT). The City did it's best to make this remaining element of the BMT Culver line as undesirable as possible. Once the City got it's IND route to Coney Island, riders using these 2 stations were basically told to go to hell, slowly, over a period of 2 decades. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 14:20:44 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Mar 20 14:02:58 2006. Must not be enforced all that well. I would concede that these items should be allowed under certain circumstances. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 14:22:15 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 14:20:44 2006. As long as they don't interfere with the performance of work. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 14:24:18 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 14:06:55 2006. That used to actually be one of my favorite stations. That's the station my father always used that station when he used to go to Rockaway with is mother, aunts, and cousins as a kid. They used it by the LIRR though. They would take the Jamaica el to the LIRR Brooklyn Manor station, and then would take the LIRR to Seaside.The first time my father took me and my friends to the beach there as a kid, we took the subway there, and got off at Seaside, stay the day there, then walk to Playland to ride the coaster, etc, and then go home from the Playland stop. As a teenager, the Seaside ritual stuck, and I always used the Beach 105th St-Seaside station when i would take the subway to the beach with my friends in the summer. Those were the days. Here's a photo I took there once. This was my LAST ride on an R30. If I had know that the day I took this photo, I probably wouldn't have gotten off. But back then there was no SubTalk or anything, so I had NO idea, the R30's were on their way out. heck, when the R16's turned up missing, I just thought they were out getting their green paint scheme like the R10's got.... 
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 14:25:58 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 14:22:15 2006. Right. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 14:28:10 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 14:12:37 2006. Yeah, it's the most insabe thing I have heard. "The union protecting workers so they can fall asleep on the job"? And this makes sense. I can't believe people actually think that falls within their rights as workers. |
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Station staffing (was Re: Culver shuttle question) |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Mar 20 14:41:47 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 14:02:39 2006. No one is getting paid to sleep on the job. I acknowledged the fact that it has to be enough to go stir crazy working a low use station like Van Alst in the middle of the night. However, you STILL have absolutely no excuse to sleep on the job.The real issue is the fact that NYCT (with the union's agreement, of course) insists on keeping low-use stations staffed in the overnight hours. As much as I loathe the LIRR, at least they don't keep every station staffed at all times. My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by jimmymc25 on Mon Mar 20 15:02:07 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 13:36:10 2006. Exactly!!!Jimmymc25 |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 15:07:40 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 13:36:10 2006. It's not acceptable. In the real world, it's grounds for immediate termination. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 15:12:26 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 13:36:10 2006. And most jobs you would be fired for falling asleep on the job. Many people work the midnight shift, at all sorts of jobs, and I guarantee that if the boss caught you doing that, you would be fired. They may give you a chance once or twice, but anything more than that is usually grounds for immediate termination. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by trains61 on Mon Mar 20 15:16:58 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 14:02:39 2006. Okay let me clarify, the only thing I was trying to do was to introduce a human element into the equation. You can certainly understand how it may happen at 21 St Van Alst at 2:00am. Each case should be judged on a case by case basis. Don`t make blanket judgements that if you nod off on mids you get fired no questions asked. Scenario; 18 year employee perfect work record, has a rough day and nods off, You guys expect the Union to uphold his termination? I don`t think so!I also maintain that those of you that make these judgements would not last 1 month on midnight shift. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by trains61 on Mon Mar 20 15:20:38 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 14:02:14 2006. Yes, we had a Manager with that same mentalily. They couldn`t understand why none of his Aircraft were available in the morning, new Manager comes in with a more human attitude and his Aircraft are up and ready at the gate for the next morning. Amazing how that works. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by trains61 on Mon Mar 20 15:24:53 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 14:11:47 2006. Reread the post maybe then you will understand what I wrote.To err is human. Depending on your beliefs there is only one perfect person that walked the face of this earth. Maybe you are the second coming?! |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by trains61 on Mon Mar 20 15:30:24 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 15:12:26 2006. But that`s not what Chris16 was advocating. He saying immediate termination no matter what the circumstances. Thank-you for being human. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 15:33:52 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by trains61 on Mon Mar 20 15:30:24 2006. No I didn't really mean "one time". That can really happen to anyone. Everyone has a bad day now and again. But in most jobs, you get caught more than once or twice, it will usually lead to termination. Most jobs do allow for an "f" up every so often...but usually it's tow or three strikes and you are out. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 15:52:50 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by trains61 on Mon Mar 20 15:30:24 2006. I'm not necessarily advocating it, I'm stating how a typical private sector employer would react, particularly if they began using your "excuses" to defend themselves. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 15:53:16 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by trains61 on Mon Mar 20 15:30:24 2006. I'm not necessarily advocating it, I'm stating how a typical private sector employer would react, particularly if the offender began using your "excuses" to defend themselves. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 15:55:16 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 15:33:52 2006. The problem is that the civil service mentality does allow for offending employees to be "contrite". If they screw up, we hear excuses, we hear threats, we hear anything but "I'm sorry". |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 15:57:58 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by trains61 on Mon Mar 20 15:16:58 2006. All of your arguments mean nothing in the real world. You sleep on the job, you pay a price. If you're lucky, you get a second chance. That's it. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 16:01:27 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by trains61 on Mon Mar 20 15:24:53 2006. You're not listening. I'm not taking issue with falling asleep. I've been there. What I take issue with is the excuses being used. There ARE no excuses for falling asleep on the job, outside the civil service. If you're caught sleeping, you should be disciplined as the employer sees fit. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by trains61 on Mon Mar 20 16:09:47 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 15:55:16 2006. That still a broad brush you`re painting with. I agree that a bad apple is a bad apple but the 18 year employee with an exemplary record deserves some consideration. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by J trainloco on Mon Mar 20 16:13:54 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 15:12:26 2006. The job I had working the midnight shift practically had sleeping as one of your duties. The craziest part of this (when I first showed up, I could not believe this happened) was that not only the boss, but the tennants of the building were aware of this, and it was not a problem. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by trains61 on Mon Mar 20 16:21:12 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 15:57:58 2006. I said it before and I`ll say it again, "I`d love to be around when you make a mistake." ie: 36mph in a 35mph zone.These arguments mean a great deal in the real world, it gets deserving employees back to work, when they have made a mistake. Good Shop Stewards and Business Agents make these arguements before management all the time. While you hold all Unions in disdain, good representation is invaluable, especially when you are on the receiving end of a disciplinary action. |
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Re: Station staffing (was Re: Culver shuttle question) |
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Posted by J trainloco on Mon Mar 20 16:33:38 2006, in response to Station staffing (was Re: Culver shuttle question), posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Mar 20 14:41:47 2006. The real issue is the fact that NYCT (with the union's agreement, of course) insists on keeping low-use stations staffed in the overnight hours.It's a safety issue. |
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Re: Station Agent Booth Choices Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Mar 20 18:38:12 2006, in response to Station Agent Booth Choices Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 11:33:24 2006. "Are you even allowed to take a book or something?"Yes. NYCT provides a Rule Book which you may read to your heart's content. |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Mar 20 18:44:29 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by trains61 on Mon Mar 20 15:20:38 2006. I had a boss whou thought it reflected will on him if he wrote people up. He did not keep that job very long.ROAR™ |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 18:47:43 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 15:07:40 2006. Usually when someone is caught sleeping, they get a verbal warning, then a suspension. After that, no one has gotten into that much trouble. Yet |
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Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 18:57:08 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 16:01:27 2006. Fortunately the few times I've dozed off at work,I had the speaker on high so that I'd hear someone walking near by. Usually I also had some bulletins in front of me so that a casual observer would think I'm reading something and not paying attention to someone walking around. Also helps that I'm usually a light sleeper. |
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