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| Culver shuttle question (229408) | |
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| (229413) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 18 15:22:22 2006, in response to Culver shuttle question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 18 15:02:55 2006. This photo is obviously taken westbound, already around the corner from McDonald Avenue. Was not the Culver (this part of it) a three track line. If so, then the north track could be gone, but the center track still present? That is what this photo looks like.ROAR™ |
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| (229416) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Sat Mar 18 15:29:04 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 18 15:22:22 2006. No, that track's too far over to be the middle track. |
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| (229419) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 18 15:35:00 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 18 15:22:22 2006. The switch leads directly to the Manhattan-bound track and was probably installed in 1954 to allow the thru-service which lasted until 1959. I'm sure the middle track here was ripped up to accomodate this switch. What I want to know was when all this was removed. Here's a photo on the final day of service (5/10/75) showing all the unused trackage removed:  |
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| (229426) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Mar 18 15:54:00 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 18 15:35:00 2006. It was removed before 1967. I'm dating it by the because IIRC it became disused before I was drafted.Even when the line became a full-time shuttle, they still used that switch so they could operate two trains on the line. There was a snowstorm in which the Manhattan-bound track was "temporarily" suspended. When the snow was cleared the Manhattan-bound never came back. |
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| (229448) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Bzuck on Sat Mar 18 17:41:03 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by SLRT on Sat Mar 18 15:54:00 2006. I remember seeing work crews removing the Manhattan bound track, and platforms shortly after the Christe Street changes. I would say around 1968. |
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| (229450) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Mar 18 17:56:45 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Bzuck on Sat Mar 18 17:41:03 2006. I recall it took them a little while to get around to actually pull the track up. First they stop using the Manhattan-bound, then they spiked the switches, then removed them, then finally took up the entire track.At some point after they single-tracked, they removed the signals, except (IIRC) entering 9th Avenue and Ditmas, and operated the line as an absolute block. A couple of other tidbits: most of the third rail was never covered, even though they switched to subway (BMT) section third rail, and the station platforms were wood to the end. The single-track Culver was also the only NYC subway line I knew where the conductor would buzz the motorman to stop even after starting to leave if there was a passenger running for train. Real Toonerville Trolley stuff. |
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| (229485) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 18 19:30:02 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Sat Mar 18 15:29:04 2006. Yeah, too much space between the two tracks for it to be the center track. |
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| (229499) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 18 19:55:02 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 18 19:30:02 2006. The middle track became useless when the IND connection was made. |
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| (229505) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 18 20:10:51 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 18 19:55:02 2006. Yes, useless. just about as useless as the M line express track between Myrtle-Broadway and Wyckoff was once the L line was to be built underground as opposed to on an el... |
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| (229724) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Bzuck on Sun Mar 19 10:35:25 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by SLRT on Sat Mar 18 17:56:45 2006. Yes - One trainset at a time in an absolute block. They changed the train every few weeks. That train was in service 24/7 till it was changed.On the approach to 9th avenue the trak shifted over so it became the middle in the 9th avenue lower station. |
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| (229725) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 19 10:37:03 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Bzuck on Sun Mar 19 10:35:25 2006. In the later years, did they only use the center track at Lower 9th? |
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| (229731) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Bzuck on Sun Mar 19 11:07:00 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 19 10:37:03 2006. Yes - They only used the center track at 9th avenue lower. |
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| (229771) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by BMT Standard on Sun Mar 19 12:32:31 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Bzuck on Sun Mar 19 11:07:00 2006. The north (formerly Manhattan bound local) track at 9th Ave. was connected to the street level trackage under the Culver El and was used by the South Brooklyn Railroad. |
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| (229785) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Mar 19 13:02:33 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by BMT Standard on Sun Mar 19 12:32:31 2006. What about the south (formerly Stillwell bound local) track? |
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| (229801) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Bzuck on Sun Mar 19 13:50:22 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by daDouce Man on Sun Mar 19 13:02:33 2006. That track did not continue south from 9th Avenue lower. |
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| (229839) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Mar 19 16:06:45 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by daDouce Man on Sun Mar 19 13:02:33 2006. Actually, they made the change at 9th Avenue in stages. IIRC First the Manhattan-bound was connected to the center track (C3/4) at 9th Avenue and C2 was connected to the South Brooklyn. Trains still relayed south of 9th Avenue to depart to Ditmas via C1. Then, when they made single track permanent, C1 was disconnected from the Culver and all revenue moves were made from C2/3, which had been connected to C1 south of the station. |
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| (229871) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Bzuck on Sun Mar 19 17:04:14 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by SLRT on Sun Mar 19 16:06:45 2006. That makes sense to me, although by the time I was aware of it C1 had been disconnected, and all revenue trains ran from the middle track at 9th avenue.I do clearly remember the spiked switch exiting Ditmas as the picture that started this thread shows. Although it was absolute block without signals, I do think there were a few timers on the way into 9th avenue and also Ditmas. Does anyone remember how fare collection was handeled at night at Ft Hamilton and 13th avenue? Were the fares collected on the train? |
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| (229881) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Mar 19 17:22:16 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Bzuck on Sun Mar 19 17:04:14 2006. ["Does anyone remember how fare collection was handeled at night at Ft Hamilton and 13th avenue? Were the fares collected on the train?"]While I used to use at night to go from the West End to the "F", from 9th to Ditmas, I never remembered any on train fare collections on the train between stops so I'd have to say the answer is no. When I rode it they used Standards and the conductor stayed at the center door door controls. |
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| (229895) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Bzuck on Sun Mar 19 17:37:17 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Mar 19 17:22:16 2006. I remember it using a 2 car Standard consist until they were retired. After that it became a 4 car R27/30 set. |
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| (229897) | |
Re: Switch Machine is missing! |
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Posted by H.S.Relay on Sun Mar 19 17:38:16 2006, in response to Culver shuttle question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 18 15:02:55 2006. Switch has been clamped in place, as there is no machine to throw it with! |
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| (229931) | |
Re: Switch Machine is missing! |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 19 18:26:45 2006, in response to Re: Switch Machine is missing!, posted by H.S.Relay on Sun Mar 19 17:38:16 2006. What was the point of doing all this? 1-track operation didn't necessitate removing signals, switches and tracks. |
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| (229946) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Mar 19 19:12:55 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Bzuck on Sun Mar 19 17:37:17 2006. I rode it often at 2 am on my way back from work during 1965-66 when I lived in Ocean Parkway. At that time it was a 3-car B set and I never recall anyone paying on the train. OTOH, I don't recall anyone getting on at 13th or Ft.Ham. But I would have remembered (I think) if the conductor had a coin changer, like they had on the Q-types in the last years of Myrtle.So I'm pretty sure the fare booths at 13th and F.H. remained open at lesat through that period and probably to the end. BTW, R1/9s also covered the route in shuttle days. |
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| (229980) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Mar 19 20:18:13 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Mar 19 17:22:16 2006. When did TA close the booths at Ft Hamilton and 13th avenue stations so that fares were collected on the train? |
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| (230006) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Mar 19 21:23:19 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by daDouce Man on Sun Mar 19 20:18:13 2006. I'm not sure fares were ever collected on the train on the Culver shuttle.The only lines I recall fares collected on the train were Dyre Avenue Line and Lower Myrtle. |
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| (230035) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Bzuck on Sun Mar 19 22:06:54 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by SLRT on Sun Mar 19 21:23:19 2006. It must have been a long night for the station agents at at Ft Hamilton and 13th avenue stations. |
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| (230038) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Mar 19 22:09:00 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Bzuck on Sun Mar 19 22:06:54 2006. Chances are the night tour at both stations were held by agents with very high seniority. |
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| (230129) | |
Re: Switch Machine is missing! |
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Posted by Mark W. on Mon Mar 20 01:48:19 2006, in response to Re: Switch Machine is missing!, posted by H.S.Relay on Sun Mar 19 17:38:16 2006. In addition. The third rail was extended through the area as well. |
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| (230196) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 09:14:06 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by daDouce Man on Sun Mar 19 22:09:00 2006. Why, so they could be more bored than the newbies? A station like that has almost be more torture than an busy station! Being busy helps pass the time! Too much time to think at "13th Avenue"!!! |
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| (230200) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 09:20:52 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 09:14:06 2006. A newbie would likely get bored working 13th Avenue.But a senior agent would know better how to deal with the booth. |
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| (230211) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 10:08:43 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 09:20:52 2006. Perhaps, but even if I had seniority, I think it would be torture to have to sit in a booth like 13th Ave (or let's take a current low use station like Beach 105th St-Seaside, or Atlantic Ave), and just sit there all day. I rather be busy, as it would make the time go faster. |
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| (230217) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Steve on Mon Mar 20 10:25:03 2006, in response to Culver shuttle question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 18 15:02:55 2006. I found this site that has lots of Culver Shuttle photos:http://www.culvershuttle.com |
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| (230231) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 11:06:44 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 10:08:43 2006. Some senior agents love those dead booths and pick them over and over.They bring things to pass the time. I'm also a senior agent. I could handle a booth like that for a day or 2. But not 5 days a week for up to 6 months at a time. Boring! And I'd rather work Seaside or Atlantic over 13th Avenue. Closer to home. |
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| (230243) | |
Station Agent Booth Choices Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 11:33:24 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 11:06:44 2006. Yeah, I guess it's a matter of preference. I know a station agent that usually tries to take stations near his home. They are relatively low to medium use stations, but he picks them because of the proximity to his house.Are you even allowed to take a book or something? I can see how it may help pass the time at low use stations, but I don't know if the MTA would allow something like that (I can understand if they don't). I remember once in the middle of the afternoon, back in the late 80's, I went up to my home station, and needed to buy tokens. The station agent was asleep in the booth. (Wow, he must have been really bored to death). That was back in the days of the slam gates, so if I was dishonest, I could have just walked in the gates if I wanted to (but I would have felt bad all day). Anyway, I knocked on the glass, and he didn't wake up. Then I pounded on the glass, and he finally woke up, and bought my "10 pack" as you used to do back then. I could tell from his reaction when I woke him up that he was quite embarrased. |
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| (230247) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 11:45:01 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by daDouce Man on Sun Mar 19 22:09:00 2006. You sure? Back then, the booths weren't as secure and self contained as they are today. I'd have been scared to work both of them in the 1970's, even if it was only Boro Park. |
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| (230249) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 11:49:03 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 10:08:43 2006. As we've seen recently, some S/A's like to sleep on the job. |
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| (230253) | |
Re: Station Agent Booth choices Re:Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 11:52:03 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 11:45:01 2006. I remember when they first started to put in the current style booths in either the late 70's or early 80's. I remember Forest Ave on the M still had the old wooden one. I wouldn't be surprised if 13th Ave or Fort Hamilton Pkwy on Culver never got the new style.And yes, in the 70's, most of the system was probably like taking your life in your hands working most token booths. I used to have a neighbor downstairs from me that was a token clerk. He was retired when I knew him, but he worked back in the 40's, 50's, and 60's, and 70's. He was so happy he was able to retire by the late 70's, as he said he would have been scared to work. Thankfully the system is so much better now. |
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| (230256) | |
Re: Station Agent Booth choices Re:Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 11:56:38 2006, in response to Re: Station Agent Booth choices Re:Culver shuttle question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 11:52:03 2006. I recall the old booths at 168th and 160th, which they kept to the end. Ditto for Fulton St before the stations were rebuilt. Queend Blvd and Metro got new booths, even though the stations closed in 1985. I suspect most of the J line got them sometime after 1976. I wouldn't want to work those old booths today. They offered little protection from gunshots and fire. |
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| (230264) | |
Re: Station Agent Booth choices Re:Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 12:07:58 2006, in response to Re: Station Agent Booth choices Re:Culver shuttle question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 11:56:38 2006. I think the M line stations got them when the el and stations were last painted in the 70's. The el and stations were painted around 1977 or 1978 (and wasn't painted again until 1990 BTW). Anyway, that's when I think I remember the new boot coming in. That's also around the time they abandoned south mezzanine at Forest Ave. I used the abandoned mezzanine when I was a kid, but it was closed soon after, probably around 1978.One day, when I was in high school, the old abandoned mezzaine was unlocked and open from the platform, and I went down the stairway and into the old mezzaine. It was like walking into the Twilight Zone. It was just like they closed the doors and forgot about it. It was dusty and dirty, a few random grafitti tags (but nothing like the complete graffiti coverage the rest of the in use parts of the station had in the 80's), and the old wooden token booth was still there. Even old billboards were on the wall. I can't recall if the turnstiles were still there, I think they were gone. Speaking of old turnstiles, I remember when Myrtle-Wyckoff still had the old wooden spinning style ones. They lasted I believe into the early 90's! |
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| (230268) | |
Re: Station Agent Booth choices Re:Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 12:18:13 2006, in response to Re: Station Agent Booth choices Re:Culver shuttle question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 12:07:58 2006. Metropolitan and Queens Blvd kept those old wooden turnstyles until the end as well. I bet they were the only type those stations ever saw. |
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| (230271) | |
Re: Station Agent Booth choices Re:Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 12:24:53 2006, in response to Re: Station Agent Booth choices Re:Culver shuttle question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 11:52:03 2006. I think the current style of booth were installed from the late 1970's on. I started in late 1979 and there weren't that many old booths still standing. And the old booths were easy targets for robbery or fire. |
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| (230282) | |
Re: Station Agent Booth choices Re:Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Mar 20 12:34:59 2006, in response to Re: Station Agent Booth choices Re:Culver shuttle question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 12:07:58 2006. Some IND stations had those old wooden turnstiles well into the 80s. Roosevelt Ave. comes to mind. Some on the Concourse line still said, "Deposit coins here." Not tokens, but coins. Sure harps back to an earlier time, doesn't it? |
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| (230283) | |
Re: Station Agent Booth choices Re:Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 12:35:59 2006, in response to Re: Station Agent Booth choices Re:Culver shuttle question, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 12:24:53 2006. If they did start the current booths in 1979, then the M line stations got them pretty early on. It had to be a "normal" current booth by 1980. |
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| (230286) | |
Re: Station Agent Booth choices Re:Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 12:40:47 2006, in response to Re: Station Agent Booth choices Re:Culver shuttle question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 11:56:38 2006. When I was in training, they showed us a video of a police sharpshooter shooting at different parts on a "new" booth.None of the shots actually entered the booth wall. At best just a lump inside from a .357 bullet imbedded in the glass. Someone years ago had a homemade rifle or hand cannon and was able to make an Eisenhower Dollar sized hole in the glass at Smith/9. It didn't look so big on TV. But I actually went down there to look at it. It is said a sledgehammer hitting the glass in the right spot will take out the entire window. I haven't actually seen that. But I have seen holes made by iron rods and pic axes. |
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| (230290) | |
Re: Station Agent Booth choices Re:Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 12:46:57 2006, in response to Re: Station Agent Booth choices Re:Culver shuttle question, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Mar 20 12:34:59 2006. I have this sign, that says in marker on the top "DeKalb Mezz". I don't know if it's from DeKalb on the L, or the other DeKalb though.Believe it or not, I found this sign in the garbage. One day, when I was on my way to the subway to go to class (college), it was garbage day. I was walking along to the station, and on top of a pile of garbage bags in front of a house was this sign. Needless to say, I was late for class that day, as I grabbed it, and had to go back home with it, before setting out. The garbage truck was just beginning on the block. If I was a few minutes later, this would have wound up in the truck: 
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| (230293) | |
Re: Station Agent Booth choices Re:Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 12:51:01 2006, in response to Re: Station Agent Booth choices Re:Culver shuttle question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 20 12:35:59 2006. I didn't work on the M line until years after I started.I have no idea what it was like along there. |
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| (230295) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 12:54:01 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 11:49:03 2006. Sometimes they have no choice.It's dead as a door nail during rush hour and alot worse at night. |
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| (230297) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 12:56:45 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 12:54:01 2006. There's no excuse for sleeping on the job, no matter how slow it is. Use No-Doz if you must. |
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| (230299) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 20 13:04:01 2006, in response to Re: Culver shuttle question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 20 12:56:45 2006. I know. But sometimes you help nodding off. |
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| (230301) | |
Re: Culver shuttle question |
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Posted by subfan on Mon Mar 20 13:08:27 2006, in response to Culver shuttle question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 18 15:02:55 2006. Another Culver question - does anyone know how long it took form when the Culver stopped running until the tracks became physically unusable, either because they were disconnected or simply due to deterioration?subfan |
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