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| Why square bases to Elevated? (1636133) | |
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| (1636133) | |
Why square bases to Elevated? |
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Posted by geoffc on Thu Sep 26 09:55:21 2024 I was driving under the Macdonald Ave Elevated (F line) and I see they redid the base posts for each of the support columns. Now they are cubish squares with sharp edges.My first thought was, why a flat face for a collision which seems like would do more damage to car, and to support column. So I said to mysefl, why not rotate that square 45 degress, so the sharp point is into traffic, so most hits would hit a slanted slope directing the energy away from the post. But then I said, maybe round that sharp edge so it is not a damaging item in a collision and I realized i talked myself into asking, why squares and not circular bases of concrete? So why did they make the support columns squares and not round? |
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| (1636134) | |
Re: Why square bases to Elevated? |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Sep 26 10:13:00 2024, in response to Why square bases to Elevated?, posted by geoffc on Thu Sep 26 09:55:21 2024. Does it really make that much of a difference whether the base is square or round? Regardless of its shape, you hit an El pillar at speed you are going to do serious damage to your car and quite possibly to yourself. |
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| (1636135) | |
Re: Why square bases to Elevated? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Thu Sep 26 10:16:52 2024, in response to Re: Why square bases to Elevated?, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Sep 26 10:13:00 2024. I would suspect that the shape of the base has an effect on how the energy produced in a vehicle-column collision is disbursed. |
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| (1636136) | |
Re: Why square bases to Elevated? |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Sep 26 10:55:06 2024, in response to Why square bases to Elevated?, posted by geoffc on Thu Sep 26 09:55:21 2024. If there was fear of damage to the pillar I would think they would put a bollard in front of it. Or at least in the 1st and 2nd world they do that. |
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| (1636138) | |
Re: Why square bases to Elevated? |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Thu Sep 26 13:23:09 2024, in response to Re: Why square bases to Elevated?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Sep 26 10:55:06 2024. The concrete base IS a bollard. |
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| (1636139) | |
Re: Why square bases to Elevated? |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Sep 26 16:58:38 2024, in response to Why square bases to Elevated?, posted by geoffc on Thu Sep 26 09:55:21 2024. A flat face spreads out the damage wider. Less chance of the pillar penetrating the car and killing the occupant. Instead, the car just gets demolished but the occupant is safer. |
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| (1636140) | |
Re: Why square bases to Elevated? |
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Posted by HANDBRAKE on Thu Sep 26 20:14:02 2024, in response to Why square bases to Elevated?, posted by geoffc on Thu Sep 26 09:55:21 2024. I all instances, the vertical column of a bend will almos always win against a passenger vehicle. |
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| (1636141) | |
Re: Why square bases to Elevated? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 26 20:28:39 2024, in response to Re: Why square bases to Elevated?, posted by HANDBRAKE on Thu Sep 26 20:14:02 2024. Does anyone have the pic of the column knocked down on the Fulton El on Pitkin? |
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| (1636145) | |
Re: Why square bases to Elevated? |
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Posted by geoffc on Fri Sep 27 08:41:42 2024, in response to Re: Why square bases to Elevated?, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Sep 26 10:13:00 2024. Hitting a flat surface head on, which seems likely with these designs would be different than hitting a slanted surface both for the car and the column itself I would think. |
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| (1636146) | |
Re: Why square bases to Elevated? |
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Posted by geoffc on Fri Sep 27 08:42:36 2024, in response to Re: Why square bases to Elevated?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Sep 26 10:55:06 2024. I suppose that is a different question? How vulnerable to cars crashing into a column are the elevated structures? |
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| (1636147) | |
Re: Why square bases to Elevated? |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Sep 27 09:09:57 2024, in response to Re: Why square bases to Elevated?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Sep 26 10:55:06 2024. Car v/s El pillar?? 9 times out of 10 the El pillar wins bollard or no bollard. What comes to mind is the El Pillars on the Astoria Line at the Astoria Blvd Sta. From time to time a car would be coming off the Triboro Bridge at a high rate of speed and smack into one of those pillars near the traffic lanes with tragic results. AFAIK, none of those pillars sustained serious damage. |
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| (1636154) | |
Re: Why square bases to Elevated? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Sep 27 14:20:30 2024, in response to Re: Why square bases to Elevated?, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 26 20:28:39 2024. Found it: Source Accident, January 23, 1953 |
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| (1636155) | |
Re: Why square bases to Elevated? |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Sep 27 14:29:51 2024, in response to Re: Why square bases to Elevated?, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Sep 27 14:20:30 2024. Good find. Notice how "skinny" those support pillars were compared to the contract 2 El pillars that support the current elevated lines. |
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| (1636156) | |
Re: Why square bases to Elevated? |
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Posted by geoffc on Fri Sep 27 14:39:25 2024, in response to Re: Why square bases to Elevated?, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Sep 27 09:09:57 2024. Good to hear. Driving under them, I have a fear of some idiot driver hitting one hard and taking down the elevated. Irrational fear I suppose. |
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| (1636157) | |
Re: Why square bases to Elevated? |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Sep 27 15:04:09 2024, in response to Re: Why square bases to Elevated?, posted by geoffc on Fri Sep 27 14:39:25 2024. Irrational is a little harsh. Just keep in mind that they are built to support many thousands of pounds and those pillars when hit don't move. |
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| (1636167) | |
Re: Why square bases to Elevated? |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Sep 28 03:40:34 2024, in response to Re: Why square bases to Elevated?, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Sep 27 14:20:30 2024. That incident didn’t happen on Pitkin. It happened on Liberty Ave since prior to the extension to Lefferts, the original Fulton St structure curved off Pitkin to the Crescent St and Grant Ave stations which were on Liberty. |
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| (1636172) | |
Re: Why square bases to Elevated? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Sep 28 08:28:18 2024, in response to Re: Why square bases to Elevated?, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Sep 27 14:29:51 2024. Not to mention the latticework instead of plate girders. |
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| (1636183) | |
Re: Why square bases to Elevated? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Sep 28 12:44:22 2024, in response to Re: Why square bases to Elevated?, posted by HANDBRAKE on Thu Sep 26 20:14:02 2024. Yes, The Pre Dual Contract flimsy elevated structures didn't stand a chance against heavy vehicles such as trucks.This was pretty evident with the 1953 incident on the Pitkin El, and the Myrtle Ave El in downtown Brooklyn. Neither fell into the streets, but immediate repairs were required to ensure the safety of the structures and the area. Today, street pillars are protected by concrete bunker type covering. The force of the impact is absorbed and transferred to the ground, not the structure above. However, some years ago, the Broadway Brooklyn El was damaged slightly at street level, and a very noticeable "dip" was seen on the Manhattan bound track. You can still see the Dip between Gates Avenue and Halsey st. |
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| (1636254) | |
Re: Why square bases to Elevated? |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Mon Sep 30 14:11:05 2024, in response to Re: Why square bases to Elevated?, posted by Edwards! on Sat Sep 28 12:44:22 2024. That dip wasn't due to a fire nearby?--Mark |
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