New Haven trains to Penn station

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New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by Baltimorerail on Thu Apr 18 18:26:48 2024 Why no Metro North New Havens trails run to Penn station?
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by Olog-hai* on Thu Apr 18 18:58:28 2024, in response to New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by Baltimorerail on Thu Apr 18 18:26:48 2024.* Dunno about trails, but: There's no room in NYP, even with LIRR East Side Access; Presuming room gets built if Gateway ever happens, the east side (New Haven) MUs either need transformers that can switch overhead wire frequency from 25Hz to 60Hz and vice versa or third-rail contact shoes that can flip from under-running to over-running third rail to use LIRR third rail; West side would be a no go what with the west side connection unelectrified and push-pull with third rail not allowed in NYP. Besides, why would you want that? GCT still has over double the platforms of NYP and NYP is only eight blocks further south and one big block further west.
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by Andrew Saucci* on Thu Apr 18 19:27:56 2024, in response to Re: New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 18 18:58:28 2024.* It's starting to look as though those who disparaged the idea of Metro North to Penn Station New York may be right-- at least for now. First, now that ESA is running, the original four LIRR/Amtrak tunnels underneath the East River need to be closed one at a time for repairs related to Hurricane Sandy, before they crumble apart. That reduces capacity and will take years. More important, ESA hasn't proven to be nearly as popular or useful as was touted, which has forced the LIRR to reroute GCT trains back to Penn Station. That in turns reduces the number of slots potentially available for Metro North trains at Penn Station. Unless ESA becomes more popular somehow, it may be a while before we see any significant number of Metro North trains to Penn Station.
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by AlM* on Thu Apr 18 20:16:41 2024, in response to Re: New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Apr 18 19:27:56 2024.* East Bronx service requires far fewer trains than GCT Madison has removed from Penn, so their sending some trains back to Penn makes no real difference. 4 East Bronx trains per hour in the rush hour would be sufficient.
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by Olog-hai* on Thu Apr 18 20:18:34 2024, in response to Re: New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Apr 18 19:27:56 2024.* I could see from the time the costs started climbing and the opening dates being pushed years and then decades back that ESA was a white elephant. More than enough money was spent to build two tunnels south and into Brooklyn to connect the Atlantic Avenue line to their little six-track terminal deep underground. In fact, more than enough money was blown to have built "Alternative G" of the former Access to the Region's Core project aka GCT lower level to NJ and possible alternate NEC route bypassing Hell Gate . . . (forget about politicians thinking practically)
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by Jackson Park B Train* on Fri Apr 19 00:03:39 2024, in response to Re: New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 18 18:58:28 2024.* Madison to 7th is either 2 1/2 or 3 depending on how you count and the 5th to 7th blocks are equalto six N-S blocks.,so 15-16 N-Sblock equivalent--i e 3/4 of a mile. Certainly more pleasantthan the same exercise at a gym. Yes it is walkable, and the subway conection is adequate.
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by New Flyer #857* on Fri Apr 19 07:50:56 2024, in response to Re: New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Apr 19 00:03:39 2024.* Google Maps puts 34th/Madison to 34th/7th as a half mile, or 10 minute walk. 5th to 6th is 0.2 miles, or 4 minutes. It's definitely longer than a regular avenue in Brooklyn (0.15 miles or 3 minutes), but not as endless as people make it out to be. If I'm doing quick mental calculations for walking distances, I usually think of Madison as "4 and a half" avenue. Park is definitely 4th. Lexington is "3 and a half." Of course the whole avenues are still long ones, whether they are "cut" or not. Hence Google Maps puts 3rd to 7th in Manhattan as a 17 minute walk (instead of the shorter walk that 3rd to 7th in Park Slope is given as -- 12 minutes downhill, 15 minutes uphill).
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by Jackson Park B Train* on Fri Apr 19 14:43:39 2024, in response to Re: New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Apr 19 07:50:56 2024.* s half a mile, and theNadison trek is 8 NS block, then we are talking 3/4 give or take. I have made that trek several times albeit 5x years ago. As I said, doable. Ultimately, we are cursed by the enmity between the NY Vanderbilts, and the out of towner PRR. Why do you think the two picked different standards for third rails? When steel coaches were new, NY Central dis "single window" style, PRR did "paired". PRR claimed they were the "Standard Railroad of the World", For fun, go look up the testimony of an ex NYC guy in Congressional hearings on the PC bankruptcy. Catholics v Protestants nonsense as if religious beliefs drove railway business rocedures.
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by Italianstallion* on Fri Apr 19 16:23:28 2024, in response to Re: New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Apr 18 19:27:56 2024.* GCT LIRR usage has stabilized and no more changes are expected. Penn Station access from the East Bronx is fully on track, with new trackage and stations being built. It will happen on schedule.
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by Italianstallion* on Fri Apr 19 16:24:11 2024, in response to New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by Baltimorerail on Thu Apr 18 18:26:48 2024.* They are planned to start doing so in a few years.
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by AlM* on Fri Apr 19 18:40:02 2024, in response to Re: New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Apr 19 07:50:56 2024.* Google Maps puts 34th/Madison to 34th/7th as a half mile, or 10 minute walk. 5th to 6th is 0.2 miles, or 4 minutes. Put much more simply, the distance between two numbered avenues, from 3rd to 12th, is about the same as 4 short blocks, or 4/20 of a mile. There are only minor variations in those distances. From Avenue D to 3rd Ave, the avenues are about the same distance apart as 3 short blocks.
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Fri Apr 19 22:57:48 2024, in response to Re: New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Apr 19 00:03:39 2024.* Disagree. It is more pleasant on many days, but bad weather makes it less pleasant than a gym. I agree about the subway.
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by 3-9* on Sat Apr 20 07:20:48 2024, in response to Re: New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by AlM on Thu Apr 18 20:16:41 2024.* Aren't they still planning on moving trains from Atlantic Ave to Penn Station? That could use up the slots freed up by GCT Madison.
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by AlM* on Sat Apr 20 10:52:39 2024, in response to Re: New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by 3-9 on Sat Apr 20 07:20:48 2024.* Wouldn't they have done that by now if they were going to do it? What would they be waiting for? And again, 4 tph is a drop in the bucket. It has a minimal effect on total Penn traffic and a huge effect on East Bronx transportation services.
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by Andrew Saucci* on Sat Apr 20 11:37:49 2024, in response to Re: New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by 3-9 on Sat Apr 20 07:20:48 2024.* What they wanted to do was to make Atlantic Ave into a shuttle-- that was the purpose of the new southernmost platform in Jamaica. Another way they backed off their original plan was to send more trains directly to Atlantic Terminal. Those trains probably would be moved from Grand Central rather than Penn Station, though.
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by New Flyer #857* on Sat Apr 20 14:46:22 2024, in response to Re: New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Apr 20 11:37:49 2024.* Most of the time ESA was under construction I just thought they were going to move the trains then going to Brooklyn over to Grand Central and take maybe one other branch line away from Penn to also go to GCT. I wasn't expecting the sort of "everything goes everywhere" they settled on.
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Apr 20 15:46:05 2024, in response to Re: New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by AlM on Sat Apr 20 10:52:39 2024.

It has a minimal effect on total Penn traffic and a huge effect on East Bronx transportation services.

The effect on East Bronx transportation is equally minimal.

Here's what it looks like, within walking distance of the 4 proposed stations.

line	item	Current 2020	New 2020	Current 2010	New 2010	Current 2000	New 2000
1	Study Area: Penn Station Access: Co-Op City Penn Station Access: Hunts Point Penn Station Access: Morris Park Penn Station Access: Parkchester-Van Nest
2	- Population
3	-- Total Population	113,542		105,699		104,810
4	-- Total Population Average Distance To Subway	0.367	0.244	0.367	0.243	0.370	0.249
5	-- Total Population Median Distance To Subway	0.340	0.239	0.345	0.239	0.345	0.239
6	-- Population %-Tile Distances To Subway
7	-- 5%-Tile	0.087	0.079	0.087	0.076	0.089	0.087
8	-- 10%-Tile	0.110	0.100	0.110	0.100	0.113	0.099
9	-- 15%-Tile	0.126	0.119	0.127	0.119	0.136	0.116
10	-- 20%-Tile	0.157	0.133	0.157	0.133	0.175	0.136
11	-- 25%-Tile	0.187	0.152	0.187	0.139	0.197	0.165
12	-- 30%-Tile	0.216	0.175	0.212	0.157	0.223	0.188
13	-- 35%-Tile	0.246	0.189	0.246	0.185	0.228	0.208
14	-- 40%-Tile	0.280	0.202	0.284	0.198	0.289	0.224
15	-- 45%-Tile	0.313	0.218	0.313	0.214	0.331	0.225
16	-- 50%-Tile	0.340	0.239	0.345	0.239	0.345	0.239
17	-- 55%-Tile	0.376	0.260	0.376	0.262	0.392	0.260
18	-- 60%-Tile	0.398	0.280	0.404	0.279	0.392	0.284
19	-- 65%-Tile	0.429	0.292	0.429	0.295	0.424	0.284
20	-- 70%-Tile	0.462	0.305	0.465	0.308	0.440	0.301
21	-- 75%-Tile	0.478	0.331	0.473	0.331	0.506	0.327
22	-- 80%-Tile	0.531	0.340	0.531	0.341	0.563	0.345
23	-- 85%-Tile	0.580	0.371	0.570	0.364	0.573	0.367
24	-- 90%-Tile	0.683	0.401	0.670	0.395	0.670	0.385
25	-- 95%-Tile	0.847	0.434	0.829	0.437	0.841	0.439
26	-- 100%-Tile	0.957	0.497	0.993	0.497	0.895	0.499
27	-- Total Within Walk To Subway Distance	87,451	113,542	80,744	105,699	78,166	104,810
28	--- Difference		26,644		26,644		26,644
29	-- % of Total Population Within Walk To Subway Distance	77.02%	100.00%	76.39%	100.00%	74.58%	100.00%
30	-- Total Beyond Walk To Subway Distance	26,091	0	24,955	0	26,644	0
31	--- Difference		-26,644		-26,644		-26,644
32	-- % of Total Population Beyond Walk To Subway Distance	22.98%	0.00%	23.61%	0.00%	25.42%	0.00%
33	-- Beyond Walking Distance to Subway Population: Average Distance	0.687	nan	0.678	nan	0.668	nan
34	-- Beyond Walking Distance to Subway Population: Median Distance	0.664	nan	0.652	nan	0.654	nan

Of the 114K people who live within 1/2 mile walking distance of one of the 4 proposed stations, 77% already live within walking distance of an existing subway station. This leaves only 27K people who will gain walk to rail access. It's also important to discover how much the walk to rail distance will be reduced for the 27K. That's shown in the percentile figures for non-walkers. There isn't much gain because the longest distance is less than a mile.

Here's a station-by-station breakdown of the "huge effect".

line	item	Current 2020	New 2020	Current 2010	New 2010	Current 2000	New 2000
1	Study Area: Penn Station Access: Co-Op City
2	- Population
3	-- Total Population	12,310		11,700		11,410
4	-- Total Population Average Distance To Subway	0.749	0.282	0.745	0.290	0.727	0.271
5	-- Total Population Median Distance To Subway	0.789	0.292	0.828	0.322	0.841	0.284
6	-- Total Beyond Walk To Subway Distance	11,107	0	10,670	0	10,298	0
7	--- Difference		-10,298		-10,298		-10,298
8	-- % of Total Population Beyond Walk To Subway Distance	90.23%	0.00%	91.20%	0.00%	90.25%	0.00%
9	-- Beyond Walking Distance to Subway Population: Average Distance	0.812	nan	0.800	nan	0.787	nan
10	-- Beyond Walking Distance to Subway Population: Median Distance	0.847	nan	0.828	nan	0.841	nan

11	Study Area: Penn Station Access: Hunts Point
13	- Population
14	-- Total Population	36,341		35,448		33,921
15	-- Total Population Average Distance To Subway	0.189	0.169	0.192	0.170	0.193	0.172
16	-- Total Population Median Distance To Subway	0.155	0.133	0.155	0.133	0.157	0.136
17	-- Total Beyond Walk To Subway Distance	1,081	0	1,064	0	1,056	0
18	--- Difference		-1,056		-1,056		-1,056
19	-- % of Total Population Beyond Walk To Subway Distance	2.97%	0.00%	3.00%	0.00%	3.11%	0.00%
20	-- Beyond Walking Distance to Subway Population: Average Distance	0.535	nan	0.533	nan	0.534	nan
21	-- Beyond Walking Distance to Subway Population: Median Distance	0.549	nan	0.508	nan	0.518	nan

22	Study Area: Penn Station Access: Morris Park
24	- Population
25	-- Total Population	9,073		8,275		10,079
26	-- Total Population Average Distance To Subway	0.544	0.340	0.536	0.340	0.538	0.330
27	-- Total Population Median Distance To Subway	0.601	0.343	0.573	0.332	0.573	0.316
28	-- Total Beyond Walk To Subway Distance	6,262	0	5,705	0	7,078	0
29	--- Difference		-7,078		-7,078		-7,078
30	-- % of Total Population Beyond Walk To Subway Distance	69.02%	0.00%	68.94%	0.00%	70.23%	0.00%
31	-- Beyond Walking Distance to Subway Population: Average Distance	0.637	nan	0.625	nan	0.619	nan
32	-- Beyond Walking Distance to Subway Population: Median Distance	0.636	nan	0.614	nan	0.573	nan

33	Study Area: Penn Station Access: Parkchester-Van Nest
35	- Population
36	-- Total Population	55,818		50,276		49,400
37	-- Total Population Average Distance To Subway	0.370	0.268	0.374	0.266	0.375	0.279
38	-- Total Population Median Distance To Subway	0.371	0.278	0.376	0.278	0.390	0.258
39	-- Total Beyond Walk To Subway Distance	7,641	0	7,516	0	8,212	0
40	--- Difference		-8,212		-8,212		-8,212
41	-- % of Total Population Beyond Walk To Subway Distance	13.69%	0.00%	14.95%	0.00%	16.62%	0.00%
42	-- Beyond Walking Distance to Subway Population: Average Distance	0.568	nan	0.564	nan	0.577	nan
43	-- Beyond Walking Distance to Subway Population: Median Distance	0.559	nan	0.540	nan	0.563	nan

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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by AlM* on Sat Apr 20 16:20:06 2024, in response to Re: New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Apr 20 15:46:05 2024.* You're ignoring the reverse commute. Hordes of people commute from Fordham to Westchester and Stamford. The East Bronx will benefit now too.
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by irtredbirdr33* on Sat Apr 20 16:32:46 2024, in response to Re: New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by AlM on Sat Apr 20 16:20:06 2024.* Hordes of people commute from Fordham to Westchester and Stamford. This is very true. There are a lot of hoarders in The Bronx. Larry, RedbirdR33
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by jailhousedoc* on Sun Apr 21 13:36:51 2024, in response to Re: New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by irtredbirdr33 on Sat Apr 20 16:32:46 2024.* Was there a time in the past when New Haven trains did go to Penn Station ? I am thinking about the time before the EP-5 locomotives. Correct me if I am wrong.
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by Fisk Ave Jim* on Sun Apr 21 13:43:44 2024, in response to Re: New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by jailhousedoc on Sun Apr 21 13:36:51 2024.* If you are referring to commuter trains, As far as I know No. Only long distance trains that went over the Hellgate to upper New England went to and from Penn Sta.
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by Jackson Park B Train* on Sun Apr 21 16:36:17 2024, in response to Re: New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Apr 21 13:43:44 2024.* In my first daylight trip over that route decades ago there were remnants of station platforms at at least two locations along with evidence offour tracks rather than the two of today. I would think consulting an Official Guide from the 1920s would provide clear evidence. For comparison, pictures of the route now being considered for TriBoroRX show platforms for passenger trainsand tunnels indicating a fopur track main.
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by AlM* on Sun Apr 21 16:52:11 2024, in response to Re: New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 21 16:36:17 2024.* Random Google Aerial View shot, showing 2 tracks, an abandoned 3rd track, and an obvious space where there used to be a 4th track.
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by Stephen Bauman* on Sun Apr 21 17:44:44 2024, in response to Re: New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by AlM on Sun Apr 21 16:52:11 2024.* The ROW used to contain 6 tracks an one time. 4 tracks for the New Haven and 2 tracks for the Port Chester Branch of the NY, Westchester & Boston RR.
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by AlM* on Sun Apr 21 17:59:52 2024, in response to Re: New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 21 17:44:44 2024.* I believe the discussion was about the portion between New Rochelle and Hell Gate. See the title of the thread.
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by 3-9* on Mon Apr 22 09:36:21 2024, in response to Re: New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 21 16:36:17 2024.* Inserting more tracks today will be interesting. When I perused the ROW using Google Maps a while back, it was obvious that Amtrak took advantage of some of the extra space to smooth out curves.
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station
Posted by Jackson Park B Train* on Mon Apr 22 12:56:33 2024, in response to Re: New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by 3-9 on Mon Apr 22 09:36:21 2024.* Yes, I could see that when riding.
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Re: New Haven trains to Penn station

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Apr 22 22:29:06 2024, in response to Re: New Haven trains to Penn station, posted by AlM on Sat Apr 20 16:20:06 2024.

You're ignoring the reverse commute.

All 554 of them? Here's what the reverse commute would look like for those who live within 1/2 mile from a Bronx station and work within 1/2 mile of a New Haven RR stop east of Coop City.

line	item	2020	2010	2000
1	From: Penn Station Access: Co-Op City Penn Station Access: Hunts Point Penn Station Access: Morris Park Penn Station Access: Parkchester-Van Nest
2	To: Bridgeport Cos Cob Darien East Norwalk Fairfield Fairfield Metro Green's Farms Greenwich Harrison Larchmont Mamaroneck Milford New Haven New Haven-State St New Rochelle Noroton Heights Old Greenwich Port Chester Riverside Rowayton Rye South Norwalk Southport Stamford Stratford West Haven Westport
3	Population in From Area	113,542	105,699	104,810
4	Workers In From Area	47,257	38,461	33,965
5	Workers As % of Population In From Area	41.62%	36.39%	32.41%
6	All Commuters Living In From Area	42,576	34,546	30,259
7	Living (From) Area Commuters As % of Workers	90.09%	89.82%	89.09%
8	Commuters Traveling From -> To Areas	554	531	485
9	From->To Area Commutes As % of From Area Commutes	1.30%	1.54%	1.60%

Where do the people who live within 1/2 mile of a proposed station work?

line	item	2020	2010	2000
1	From: Penn Station Access: Co-Op City Penn Station Access: Hunts Point Penn Station Access: Morris Park Penn Station Access: Parkchester-Van Nest
2	To: Connecticut: Fairfield County
3	Population in From Area	113,542	105,699	104,810
4	Workers In From Area	47,257	38,461	33,965
5	Workers As % of Population In From Area	41.62%	36.39%	32.41%
6	All Commuters Living In From Area	42,576	34,546	30,259
7	Living (From) Area Commuters As % of Workers	90.09%	89.82%	89.09%
8	Commuters Traveling From -> To Areas	157	161	200
9	From->To Area Commutes As % of From Area Commutes	0.37%	0.47%	0.66%

10	From: Penn Station Access: Co-Op City Penn Station Access: Hunts Point Penn Station Access: Morris Park Penn Station Access: Parkchester-Van Nest
12	To: Connecticut: New Haven County
13	Population in From Area	113,542	105,699	104,810
14	Workers In From Area	47,257	38,461	33,965
15	Workers As % of Population In From Area	41.62%	36.39%	32.41%
16	All Commuters Living In From Area	42,576	34,546	30,259
17	Living (From) Area Commuters As % of Workers	90.09%	89.82%	89.09%
18	Commuters Traveling From -> To Areas	51	32	29
19	From->To Area Commutes As % of From Area Commutes	0.12%	0.09%	0.10%

20	From: Penn Station Access: Co-Op City Penn Station Access: Hunts Point Penn Station Access: Morris Park Penn Station Access: Parkchester-Van Nest
22	To: New York: Bronx County
23	Population in From Area	113,542	105,699	104,810
24	Workers In From Area	47,257	38,461	33,965
25	Workers As % of Population In From Area	41.62%	36.39%	32.41%
26	All Commuters Living In From Area	42,576	34,546	30,259
27	Living (From) Area Commuters As % of Workers	90.09%	89.82%	89.09%
28	Commuters Traveling From -> To Areas	11,675	9,374	8,421
29	From->To Area Commutes As % of From Area Commutes	27.42%	27.13%	27.83%

30	From: Penn Station Access: Co-Op City Penn Station Access: Hunts Point Penn Station Access: Morris Park Penn Station Access: Parkchester-Van Nest
32	To: New York: Kings County
33	Population in From Area	113,542	105,699	104,810
34	Workers In From Area	47,257	38,461	33,965
35	Workers As % of Population In From Area	41.62%	36.39%	32.41%
36	All Commuters Living In From Area	42,576	34,546	30,259
37	Living (From) Area Commuters As % of Workers	90.09%	89.82%	89.09%
38	Commuters Traveling From -> To Areas	4,391	4,158	2,773
39	From->To Area Commutes As % of From Area Commutes	10.31%	12.04%	9.16%

40	From: Penn Station Access: Co-Op City Penn Station Access: Hunts Point Penn Station Access: Morris Park Penn Station Access: Parkchester-Van Nest
42	To: New York: New York County
43	Population in From Area	113,542	105,699	104,810
44	Workers In From Area	47,257	38,461	33,965
45	Workers As % of Population In From Area	41.62%	36.39%	32.41%
46	All Commuters Living In From Area	42,576	34,546	30,259
47	Living (From) Area Commuters As % of Workers	90.09%	89.82%	89.09%
48	Commuters Traveling From -> To Areas	18,269	15,507	14,006
49	From->To Area Commutes As % of From Area Commutes	42.91%	44.89%	46.29%

50	From: Penn Station Access: Co-Op City Penn Station Access: Hunts Point Penn Station Access: Morris Park Penn Station Access: Parkchester-Van Nest
52	To: New York: Queens County
53	Population in From Area	113,542	105,699	104,810
54	Workers In From Area	47,257	38,461	33,965
55	Workers As % of Population In From Area	41.62%	36.39%	32.41%
56	All Commuters Living In From Area	42,576	34,546	30,259
57	Living (From) Area Commuters As % of Workers	90.09%	89.82%	89.09%
58	Commuters Traveling From -> To Areas	5,105	2,854	2,418
59	From->To Area Commutes As % of From Area Commutes	11.99%	8.26%	7.99%

60	From: Penn Station Access: Co-Op City Penn Station Access: Hunts Point Penn Station Access: Morris Park Penn Station Access: Parkchester-Van Nest
62	To: New York: Richmond County
63	Population in From Area	113,542	105,699	104,810
64	Workers In From Area	47,257	38,461	33,965
65	Workers As % of Population In From Area	41.62%	36.39%	32.41%
66	All Commuters Living In From Area	42,576	34,546	30,259
67	Living (From) Area Commuters As % of Workers	90.09%	89.82%	89.09%
68	Commuters Traveling From -> To Areas	307	157	135
69	From->To Area Commutes As % of From Area Commutes	0.72%	0.45%	0.45%

70	From: Penn Station Access: Co-Op City Penn Station Access: Hunts Point Penn Station Access: Morris Park Penn Station Access: Parkchester-Van Nest
72	To: New York: Westchester County
73	Population in From Area	113,542	105,699	104,810
74	Workers In From Area	47,257	38,461	33,965
75	Workers As % of Population In From Area	41.62%	36.39%	32.41%
76	All Commuters Living In From Area	42,576	34,546	30,259
77	Living (From) Area Commuters As % of Workers	90.09%	89.82%	89.09%
78	Commuters Traveling From -> To Areas	2,620	2,303	2,277
79	From->To Area Commutes As % of From Area Commutes	6.15%	6.67%	7.53%

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