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| Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 (1627805) | |
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| (1628071) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Nov 26 09:54:35 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Avid Reader on Sun Nov 26 07:34:24 2023. LOL |
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| (1628072) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Nov 26 09:55:25 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Sun Nov 26 07:55:01 2023. The BMT standards and Triplexes were originally painted dark brown. |
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| (1628073) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Nov 26 09:59:11 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Sun Nov 26 08:02:10 2023. The BMT standards were damn near indestructible. What else can you say about a subway car that split a switch, plowed into a station sideways, taking out everything in its path, and winding up with nothing more that scrapes abd bruises? Or one that got T-boned by a semi tractor on the Manhattan Bridge and walked away with hardly a scratch? |
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| (1628080) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Nov 26 14:05:53 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Avid Reader on Sun Nov 26 07:34:24 2023. BOWEL MOVEMENTS. |
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| (1628085) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Nov 26 14:52:14 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Nov 26 09:50:43 2023. Yep. I thought the same thing. As a kid Growing up in Woodside I'd always see a Flushing Line R12/14/15 in service with front end routing and destinations.As was the case when at 65th St I'd see a R1-9 GG pull in with all that info up front. But when I'd see a Standard come in with no front end routing or destination, I wondered how the pax would know where the train went If Standards were ever in service to Smith-9th St. I guess the folks would have enough time before Queens Plaza to figure out what train they were on. |
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| (1628086) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by zac on Sun Nov 26 15:35:33 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by randyo on Sun Nov 26 01:41:10 2023. Those were even worse.I also remember some red seats with springs in place of the rattan seats. |
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| (1628088) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by zac on Sun Nov 26 15:43:47 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by randyo on Sun Nov 26 01:30:49 2023. The R1s were already being scrapped by then. The R40s started coming in. If you look on NYCSubway.org by year there are only 3 R1s in photos in 1970, and mostly car 100 at that. If you switch to R4 there are lots of them still. |
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| (1628089) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by zac on Sun Nov 26 15:47:49 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by randyo on Fri Nov 24 03:03:05 2023. Probably any R1, R4 and low numbered R6 were sent to Concourse. The R7s and R9s were probably sent to Queens. I distinctly remember that the higher numbered cars all ran in Queens, and the B had the lowest numbered cars that looked to be on their last legs.They may have all had the same design and components, but the higher numbered cars were definitely in better shape and some were 10 years newer. |
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| (1628098) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Nov 26 18:46:56 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Nov 26 14:52:14 2023. The riding public became famliar with the marker lights, so they knew what color combination to look for. If you were at Pacific St. and a BMT standard consist with a red-white marker light combination pulled in, you knew it was a Sea Beach Express. Green-white was a West End Express (correct me if I'm wrong). Plus they had annunciators at BMT stations that gave route information and whether it was operating via bridge or tunnel.Some BMT standards had GG LOCAL added to their side route sign curtains in anticipation of being asigned there, but that didn't happen. |
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| (1628099) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Nov 26 18:49:30 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by zac on Sun Nov 26 15:43:47 2023. IIRC the R-1s began to be phased out with the arrival of the R-42s. The late Wayne aka Mr. slant R-40 rode on all-R-1 B train in '68 or '69 that howled ass along 4th Ave. despite being in horrible condition. |
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| (1628100) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Nov 26 18:50:57 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by zac on Sun Nov 26 15:47:49 2023. Some R-6s went oner to Queens, too. F trains were often R-6/7 mixes. |
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| (1628101) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Nov 26 19:03:49 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Nov 26 18:50:57 2023. What I never understood was why didnt the TA keep the R9s in Jamaica where they were newer and subject to heavy demands instead of sending them to ENY where the demands and crowding were easier. I would have sent the R6-7s to ENY instead |
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| (1628103) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Nov 26 20:11:24 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Nov 26 19:03:49 2023. They should have just left the R-16s at ENY. They would have lived a far easier life. Just as the R-10s were tailor-made for express runs and were perfectly suited for the A, the R-16s were tailor-made for the lighter traffic demands, at the time, on the Three Stooges Division. |
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| (1628112) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Nov 26 23:13:50 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Nov 26 09:55:25 2023. One of the people I know attached to the Transit Museum described the original color as “UPS Brown.” At some point the BMT went with a lighter shade of brown more like a khaki which is what the Museum BMT cars are painted now. I don’t know when it was changed but I recall seeing a Multi in CIYD that looked almost like the gold colored R-16s and I assume it was the original color of the Multis when new. Unfortunately, I haven’t seen any color photos (if they even exist) of the Multis when new so I can’t say for sure. The Multis do look rather dark from the B & W photos I have seen of them, however. |
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| (1628115) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Nov 26 23:33:04 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by zac on Sun Nov 26 15:43:47 2023. The R-1s were being scrapped but a few were still in service. I had a few of them the week I worked the CC in late 1969. |
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| (1628118) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Nov 27 07:02:34 2023, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by irtredbirdr33 on Wed Nov 22 09:15:02 2023. Thank you, as always.Two thoughts- 1950 was a terrible year for the LIRR. Two accidents, each with a lot of fatalities and the Rockaway trestle fire. And Thanksgiving weekend 1967 must've been fascinating for subway fans- new trackage and routes and a new station opening- a major service expansion. Perhaps some mourned or still mourn the end of the Nassau St connection to the Manhattan Bridge. In any event, I have an original NYCTA map from when Chrystie opened. My Mom let me have it around 1978, when she would have otherwise thrown it out, but she knew how much I liked transit stuff. |
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| (1628120) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Mon Nov 27 07:26:03 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Nov 26 14:05:53 2023. BOWEL MOVEMENTS.Well yeah, sometimes! And you? |
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| (1628121) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Mon Nov 27 07:32:17 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by randyo on Sun Nov 26 23:13:50 2023. At some point the BMT went with a lighter shade of brown morelike a khaki which is what the Museum BMT cars are painted now. Weren't they painted like that to impersonate "Boston subway cars" for a movie? 
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| (1628122) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Mon Nov 27 08:10:05 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Avid Reader on Mon Nov 27 07:26:03 2023. all the times. |
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| (1628123) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Mon Nov 27 08:11:33 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by zac on Sun Nov 26 15:35:33 2023. I also remember some red seats with springs in place of the rattan seats. Right Zac! You are remembering the original seats of the R/15 and R/16's. Those seats sometimes found their way into R/10, R/12 and R/14's. |
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| (1628127) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by zac on Mon Nov 27 08:38:32 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Nov 26 19:03:49 2023. I'm pretty sure it was because the R6-7s were going to be retired pretty soon from Queens anyway, the R9s were sent to their final destination and would run there for a few years longer. |
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| (1628139) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by irtredbirdr33 on Mon Nov 27 10:16:27 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Nov 27 07:02:34 2023. 1967 also was the year for the implementation of the Aldene Plan which drastically altered the New Jersey railroad scene. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1628142) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Mon Nov 27 10:39:59 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Nov 27 07:02:34 2023. I remember getting that 1967 map. Got it at the token booth at Prospect Park. I was fascinated by all the colors, before that, the map was black for all IRT lines, red for all IND lines and green for all BMT lines. Recently, I brought a box out of storage which apparently was some of my grandmother's belongings that my mother and I packed up after she died and had been untouched for 47 years, and inside was a 1968 map. It is now hanging on the wall behind my computer desk. |
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| (1628143) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Mon Nov 27 10:42:17 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by zac on Mon Nov 27 08:38:32 2023. Also, in the late 60s/early 70s, most of the new cars went to Jamaica. Most of the R-38s, all of the R-40s (Slant and Modified), most of the R-44s and all of the R-46. So the Arnines became surplus there. |
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| (1628156) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Nov 27 14:03:27 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by irtredbirdr33 on Mon Nov 27 10:16:27 2023. Yep. |
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| (1628171) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Nov 28 02:38:00 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by randyo on Sun Nov 26 02:21:42 2023. I would love to see those BMT prototypes up close, let alone running. It's pity that none of them, not even the production Multis or old 998, were saved for posterity. |
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| (1628173) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Nov 28 03:05:51 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Mon Nov 27 10:39:59 2023. The TA’s map from circa 1960 changed a lot of things. It was more schematic that the older Hagstrom maps and it also changed tot traditional division colors. On the Hagstrom maps, the IRT was blue, the BMT was yellow and the IND was red. |
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| (1628174) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Nov 28 03:06:27 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Avid Reader on Mon Nov 27 07:32:17 2023. Sounds like the brief scene in "Malcolm X". |
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| (1628175) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Nov 28 03:09:07 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Avid Reader on Mon Nov 27 08:11:33 2023. The original seats in the R-15s were sort of a tannish orange color not red. The R-17 were the first IRT cars to have red seats like the BMT’s R-16s. |
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| (1628184) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Tue Nov 28 07:05:35 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by randyo on Tue Nov 28 03:09:07 2023. You may be correct. I found this.... At Court St. R/15 Maybe correct covering not available. My color vision is not reliable. |
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| (1628192) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 28 10:39:36 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by randyo on Tue Nov 28 03:05:51 2023. I have a Hagstrom map from the mid-60s with BMT routes shown in green. Only Southern Division routes had letter markings; Three Stooges Division routes had no markings. Wish I hadn't marked it up so much... |
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| (1628193) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 28 10:41:41 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Mon Nov 27 10:39:59 2023. My mother picked up a copy of that "New Subway Routes" brochure in October of '67. She gave it to me then, but over the years it disappeared. I found another one on ebay and acquired it. I still have my original brochure of the Phase 2 and Phase 3 changes. |
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| (1628195) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 28 10:47:57 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Mon Nov 27 10:42:17 2023. Some trainsets were retained in Queens until 1976, although by then they were probably only used during rush hours. |
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| (1628215) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Nov 29 02:51:17 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 28 10:39:36 2023. There was a variation of the Hagstrom map that did show the BMT routes in green but most of them showed the BMT in yellow. |
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| (1628216) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Nov 29 02:53:15 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Avid Reader on Tue Nov 28 07:05:35 2023. The R-15s were a bit of an oddball, and certain of their features were not repeated on later contracts. |
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| (1628257) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 29 18:52:59 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by randyo on Wed Nov 29 02:53:15 2023. But even though they had interior door controls, they were still discriminated against when they made it over to the mainlines. |
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| (1628258) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 29 18:53:42 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by randyo on Wed Nov 29 02:51:17 2023. This pasticular map that I have even has, "World's Fair" by the Flushing area. |
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| (1628263) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by HANDBRAKE on Wed Nov 29 20:33:44 2023, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by irtredbirdr33 on Wed Nov 22 09:15:02 2023. After the tracks on the north side of the Manhattan bridge were cut into the Chrystie Street subway, and before IND revenue service began, IND R1 equipment was sent over the bridge, turning at Pacific Street station to polish the rails between Broadway Lafayette and Pacific station.Flat wheeled IND equipment could be heard at DeKalb as R1's passed through the station on F by-pass Tracks. Returning from a Sweet 16 birthday party on 23rd Avenue in Astoria late Saturday night. I recall R32's running on the QB. When I reached 34th Street from Ditmars, I went into the IND 34th Street station where an F train of R1/9's was charging up ready to depart for Jamaica, when a southbound R38 rolled into the station signed for CONEY ISLAND. I rode the what must have been the first Coney Island bound F south the 4th Street where I got off. A few minutes later a D train with an an R4 as the south motor pulled. in. I got on that train, and took it to DeKalb Avenue station where I got off. Most likely both the F and the D were the first post Christie Street southbound services at the time of the merge. At DeKalb Avenue station, I saw NYCT crews placing new Black on White "B" division route marker and destination signage along the edge of the platform. On the station platform, it was pure pandemonium with customers totally bewildered to see this foreign IND equipment signed as a Coney Island D. The Monday morning rush hours was even more chaotic for the typical transit creature of habit. The best thing going was, new R32's on the D ripping up and down the west side and Grand Concourse on my commute to High School, with a few R1/4's thrown in for contrast. On the day of the BMT/IND merge, the majority of the Southern BMT became IND territory. The 1945/1948 BoT unified transit plan was finally, almost, complete. |
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| (1628266) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by HANDBRAKE on Wed Nov 29 20:54:56 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Nov 26 18:46:56 2023. BRT/BMT A/B Standards ran on the 4th Avenue line, into Continental Avenue Queens mixed with GG R1/9 equipment. The 600V Third Rail beginning at the 11th Street cut into the IND Queens Blvd line gave the A/B's a nice kick compared to the 550V used on BMT at the time.I recall catching the last southbound BMT at Steinway Street at 6:48PM, an A/B, as it was making the wide turn into the Steinway Street station at speed, only lumber through the 60th Street river tunnel into Lex. The sight of a BRT Standard doors open across an incandescent lit platform from an R9 at Queens Plaza was a sight to behold. A transit version of an underground Acropolis, and transit smell cologne sampler included. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by HANDBRAKE on Wed Nov 29 21:05:14 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Nov 24 11:29:58 2023. Before the merge, there were a few R32's that ran on the D during the rush hour via the Culver route to CI. The number of R32's that ran on the pre-merge D were small, three to five trains.I never saw any with the exception during one weekend in the fall of 1966 where a I saw out of service R32 train sets run on the D to, what I have been advised, record running schedules. |
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| (1628271) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Nov 30 04:43:14 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 29 18:52:59 2023. Not right away. The banning of R-12s and 14s from C/R positions started when the first radio antennas were installed because C/Rs were getting injured from therm being in the way of the steps. For some reason, the R-15s were included in the ban even though they had inside door controls. Subsequently, smaller IND/BMT style antennas were installed on all the 12s, 14, and 15s, but with the exception of the 3rd Ave el, the IRT supt refused to lift the ban. |
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| (1628274) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Nov 30 04:57:17 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by HANDBRAKE on Wed Nov 29 20:33:44 2023. You wouldn’t have seen and R-32 QB Saturday night since by then all Brighton lcls were QTs. |
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| (1628284) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Nov 30 09:00:09 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by HANDBRAKE on Wed Nov 29 20:33:44 2023. Wasn't there a fantrip that made it into Grand St before it even opened? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Nov 30 09:37:27 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 28 10:47:57 2023. I did a "ride all the lines" fantrip in August 1976, shortly before I moved to L. A. I'm pretty sure the GG I rode was a consist of Arnines (though possibly could have been R-16s). The K and LL that I rode were definitely Arnines. That marked the last time I rode Arnines, as they were gone the next time I was in NYC (August 1978) |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by HANDBRAKE on Thu Nov 30 19:33:07 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by randyo on Thu Nov 30 04:57:17 2023. When I mounted the Ditmars Blvd Station at 2300 hours, R32's were running on the QB the Saturday night before the midnight cutover. |
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| (1628302) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Nov 30 19:35:35 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Nov 30 09:00:09 2023. Yes, the R-11s did the honors on November 18. |
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| (1628303) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Nov 30 19:36:12 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by HANDBRAKE on Wed Nov 29 20:33:44 2023. Those R-32s zoomed effortlessly up CPW on the express tracks. They made that dash look easy. |
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| (1628306) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Nov 30 19:41:03 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Nov 30 09:37:27 2023. Possibly. Not sure if the R-16s were used on the GG then, although ten years earlier, 32 of them were loaned to Jamaica Yard when R-1.9s began dropping like flies. Those R-16s had new GG signs splied into their roller curtains, then by February 1967 they returned to the BMT. |
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| (1628309) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Nov 30 19:42:47 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by randyo on Thu Nov 30 04:43:14 2023. You have to wonder if he was even aware the R-15s had faucet handles and not trigger boxes. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Nov 30 23:25:57 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by HANDBRAKE on Wed Nov 29 20:33:44 2023. Cool.Today, the BMT holds the Brighton line under it's thumb,as the 6th Avenue service has been reduced to 'part-time" status. |
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