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Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually? |
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Posted by heypaul on Tue Oct 17 20:45:17 2023, in response to Third rail power loss - What happens usually?, posted by JRR4 on Tue Oct 17 18:30:57 2023. "Do the trains just coast thru the powerless area? Can they even do that? "Yeah, that's what I'm wondering. Was the loss of power just on the tracks in the station? |
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| (1626351) | |
Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually? |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Oct 17 20:59:35 2023, in response to Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually?, posted by heypaul on Tue Oct 17 20:45:17 2023. Hmm...I wonder where the longest 3rd rail gap in the system is? I will say either the swutch trackage just west of the West End 9th Avenue Station going to the vnorthernmost yard lead track up the ramp OR the interlocking tracks just west outside of the Brooklyn IRT at Atlantic Avenue. But, I could be wrong! |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1626365) | |
Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually? |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 18 01:53:04 2023, in response to Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually?, posted by heypaul on Tue Oct 17 20:45:17 2023. It may not have been 3rd rail power that was lost but power to the station lighting which is why trains skipped the station. Sometimes the news media don't get the info straight and often the MTA’s own website isn’t much better. |
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| (1626370) | |
Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually? |
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Posted by heypaul on Wed Oct 18 05:40:27 2023, in response to Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually?, posted by randyo on Wed Oct 18 01:53:04 2023. "It may not have been 3rd rail power that was lost but power to the station lighting which is why trains skipped the station. Sometimes the news media don't get the info straight and often the MTA’s own website isn’t much better." I found this report from Spectrum News NY 1 that sheds more light on the outage: MTA officials said a signal problem at Nassau Avenue led to a complete suspension of G train service between Court Square and Bedford-Nostrand Avenues in both directions just after 8 a.m. By Monday afternoon, the MTA said G train service had resumed between the two stations. Some southbound F trains were temporarily rerouted to the G line from Queens Plaza to Bergen Street to provide limited southbound G train service. |
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| (1626376) | |
Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Oct 18 07:56:02 2023, in response to Third rail power loss - What happens usually?, posted by JRR4 on Tue Oct 17 18:30:57 2023. Trains will never be knowingly sent into a track segment with no 3rd rail power.There are a myriad of reasons for this. The first is for safety. Should a train enter an area with an unpowered 3rd rail, it will bridge power from an active 3rd rail. If there is a short, it will cause more damage. If people are working in the area, they can be electrocuted. The report sounds like the info is wrong. |
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| (1626384) | |
Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually? |
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Posted by Railman718 on Wed Oct 18 09:40:52 2023, in response to Third rail power loss - What happens usually?, posted by JRR4 on Tue Oct 17 18:30:57 2023. First it was third rail power trains was holding then that got cleared up then it was AC power, which controls the signals.Trains was Keying by... |
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| (1626395) | |
Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually? |
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Posted by The Silence on Wed Oct 18 19:25:01 2023, in response to Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually?, posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Oct 17 20:59:35 2023. Really does depend on definitions.One could argue the entirety of Linden Yard counts, especially from the junction with the New Lots Line. Or, say, the two tracks at 38th street yard that run parallel to the mainline. They have connections to 3rd rail trackage at both ends but they themselves are unpowered. |
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| (1626403) | |
Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually? |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Oct 18 22:24:09 2023, in response to Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually?, posted by The Silence on Wed Oct 18 19:25:01 2023. I'm not talking about those tracks. I mean tracks that electric trains traverse without diesel power. |
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| (1626405) | |
Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Thu Oct 19 03:50:35 2023, in response to Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually?, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Oct 18 22:24:09 2023. Less than 1 car length. Over switches. NYCT uses apron or kicker rails to keep juic flowing. However, in penn station, JO interlocking has some major gaps in the 3rd rail that are longer than a DE/DM loco. Hence any Diesel electric LIRR train must be double ended to prevent gapping. |
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| (1626406) | |
Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Oct 19 06:50:11 2023, in response to Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually?, posted by Train Dude on Thu Oct 19 03:50:35 2023. What happens when a 12 car set of LIRR Bi-level cars is made up?Are the (2) Cab Cars removed and replaced by NON-cab cars?   |
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| (1626410) | |
Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually? |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Oct 19 10:36:15 2023, in response to Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually?, posted by Train Dude on Thu Oct 19 03:50:35 2023. Thanks, for the explanation |
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| (1626419) | |
Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Train Dude on Thu Oct 19 17:52:07 2023, in response to Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Avid Reader on Thu Oct 19 06:50:11 2023. DE/DM consist would typically be 6 cars or less with one loco. Amtrak, which owns the trackage in penn station woll not allow a Lirr diesel traon in penn station with a cab car on one end. There musr be a power unit at each end. |
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| (1626425) | |
Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Oct 19 18:56:41 2023, in response to Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Train Dude on Thu Oct 19 17:52:07 2023. I guess I wasn't clear enough. Forgive me.Whether DE or DM on each end of a consist with 12 multilevel C-3 cars, are any of the passenger cars the "Cab" type cars, say cars #6 and #7? Or are all C-3 cars NON-CAB UNITS. |
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| (1626426) | |
Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by pragmatist on Thu Oct 19 19:28:53 2023, in response to Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Avid Reader on Thu Oct 19 18:56:41 2023. there were 23 cab cars in the original order, the other cars were split between with/without toilet. Going into Penn it's a DM at each end, as was previously explained. |
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| (1626427) | |
Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Joe on Thu Oct 19 19:33:58 2023, in response to Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Avid Reader on Thu Oct 19 18:56:41 2023. That is a good question. I have observed the long 12-car trains often, and I think (not positive) that I never saw a cab car in such a train. One reason is the shortage of cab cars. The LIRR bought only 23 cab cars. Sometimes I have seen scoots bracketed by locomotives. |
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| (1626430) | |
Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by pragmatist on Thu Oct 19 21:40:27 2023, in response to Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Joe on Thu Oct 19 19:33:58 2023. The cab cars can't be used on the trains going into Penn Station, which limits the number they really can use. |
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| (1626433) | |
Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Oct 20 05:43:40 2023, in response to Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Avid Reader on Thu Oct 19 18:56:41 2023. Mechanically, there is no reason why a cab car could not be used in the middle of a consist of C3 cars. The reason its not likely to occur has already been cited. |
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| (1626436) | |
Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Fri Oct 20 07:13:28 2023, in response to Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by pragmatist on Thu Oct 19 19:28:53 2023. Going into Penn it's a DM at each end, as was previously explained.I understand this. The question is "Are the there any Cab Cars? |
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| (1626437) | |
[PHOTOS] Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Oct 20 07:13:55 2023, in response to Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Avid Reader on Thu Oct 19 06:50:11 2023. The DE-30 was silent and not usually rumbling.  
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| (1626438) | |
Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Fri Oct 20 07:17:36 2023, in response to Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by pragmatist on Thu Oct 19 21:40:27 2023. The cab cars can't be used on the trains going into Penn Station,Not if they are used for train control. What about if they are used in the middle of a consist? |
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| (1626439) | |
Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Fri Oct 20 07:18:53 2023, in response to Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Train Dude on Fri Oct 20 05:43:40 2023. At last a sane answer. |
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| (1626440) | |
Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Fri Oct 20 07:53:54 2023, in response to Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Avid Reader on Fri Oct 20 07:18:53 2023. DE was used here. June 2018, seems like yesterday.  Did LIRR do subsequent testing with MARC CAB CARS at one end? |
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| (1626441) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Fri Oct 20 07:59:39 2023, in response to [PHOTOS] Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Oct 20 07:13:55 2023. I thought the passenger cars M-7 and C-3 bilevel had different type couplers. |
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| (1626442) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Oct 20 08:02:27 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Avid Reader on Fri Oct 20 07:59:39 2023. I thought the passenger cars M-7 and C-3 bilevel had different type couplers.Apparently not. Bill M. |
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| (1626443) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Fri Oct 20 08:28:10 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Oct 20 08:02:27 2023. They look different to me. Maybe an adapter was used?
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| (1626444) | |
Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Fri Oct 20 10:37:53 2023, in response to Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Avid Reader on Thu Oct 19 18:56:41 2023. I have seen cab cars in the middle of larger consists. On the YouTube of the retired horn lover, he has had summer trains of C3's where it involves a cab car in the middle. The most likely trains to have them are the Friday only summer specials as they usually just plug a set from another train onto an existing consist so you will see a cab car as a middle unit (though not necessarily in car 6 or 7). |
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| (1626446) | |
Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Oct 20 11:13:32 2023, in response to Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Avid Reader on Fri Oct 20 07:53:54 2023. I believe LIRR leased only trailer cars, no cab cars, so no. |
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| (1626448) | |
Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Oct 20 11:20:21 2023, in response to Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Avid Reader on Fri Oct 20 07:13:28 2023. There could be a cab car or 2 somewhere in the consist which would not have no bearing on the operation of the train.For example, two 6 car trains added up with cab cars being the sixth and seventh cars on the Cannonball. |
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| (1626449) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Oct 20 11:22:17 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Avid Reader on Fri Oct 20 08:28:10 2023. Yes, an adapter coupler would be used. |
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| (1626451) | |
Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by pragmatist on Fri Oct 20 12:32:15 2023, in response to Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Oct 20 11:20:21 2023. One advantage of including the cab cars is the fact that they have toilets while 2/3 of the trailers don't. |
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| (1626455) | |
Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Oct 20 15:07:18 2023, in response to Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by mtk52983 on Fri Oct 20 10:37:53 2023. I saw an interesting consist last week although it was not running in service.CAB CAR-C3-C3-C3-DE-C3 Obviously C3s were never supposed to be trailing cars so it had no red marker lights. |
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| (1626456) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Oct 20 15:09:31 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Oct 20 08:02:27 2023. They absolutely do |
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| (1626460) | |
Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Fri Oct 20 17:05:55 2023, in response to Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by pragmatist on Fri Oct 20 12:32:15 2023. One advantage of including the cab cars is the fact that they have toilets while 2/3 of the trailers don't.An added option I did not think about. |
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| (1626461) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Fri Oct 20 17:09:15 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Oct 20 11:22:17 2023. I tried to find a photo of an adapter, but had no luck.I know they're on the Rescue Diesel parked near Hunter point. |
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| (1626462) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Fri Oct 20 17:15:53 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Train Dude on Fri Oct 20 15:09:31 2023. This 12-car chat was a pleasant diversion in these turbulent times, thanks to the participants.Avid |
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| (1626464) | |
Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by pragmatist on Fri Oct 20 18:03:51 2023, in response to Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Avid Reader on Fri Oct 20 17:05:55 2023. Those 12 car consists are sent all the way to Montauk from the city in the summer season. That would be a lot of passengers on a very long run it really helps. |
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| (1626466) | |
Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually? |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Oct 20 18:44:16 2023, in response to Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually?, posted by Train Dude on Wed Oct 18 07:56:02 2023. Current NYCT cars which are decedents of the Lo-Vs will not bridge 3rd trail gaps. Only the IRT Hi-Vs did that. |
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| (1626467) | |
Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Fri Oct 20 18:46:21 2023, in response to Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by pragmatist on Fri Oct 20 18:03:51 2023. NO SHIT! |
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| (1626468) | |
Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually? |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Oct 20 18:48:02 2023, in response to Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually?, posted by Railman718 on Wed Oct 18 09:40:52 2023. If AC power was out, keying by wouldn’t have been possible. The T/Os would have to go to the roadbed and manually hook down the stop arms. |
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| (1626470) | |
Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Oct 20 19:25:25 2023, in response to Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually?, posted by randyo on Fri Oct 20 18:44:16 2023. On the contrary - all 4 shoes are on a common trolley. Only one.line goes to the ribbon fuse |
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| (1626471) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Oct 20 19:31:34 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Train Dude on Fri Oct 20 15:09:31 2023. They absolutely doThank you, I stand corrected. What fooled me was how close the M-7 and C-2 were. I believe the C-1's had M-1,3,7 type couplers. Bill M |
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| (1626472) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Oct 20 19:34:58 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Avid Reader on Fri Oct 20 17:09:15 2023. I know they're on the Rescue Diesel parked near Hunter point.The compromise coupler could be stored inside or on the underside of the diesel. The nickname for the this compromise coupler is called the "dutchman". As told to me by a LIRR engineer instructor many years ago. Bill M |
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| (1626474) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Fri Oct 20 20:53:20 2023, in response to [PHOTOS] Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Oct 20 07:13:55 2023. Wow, what a catch! First time ever seeing a commuter railroad MU tow a diesel train. I always thought they would send MP15's for this tow job. |
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| (1626475) | |
Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by pragmatist on Fri Oct 20 21:02:44 2023, in response to Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Avid Reader on Fri Oct 20 18:46:21 2023. if that were the case, we might get away with less toilets, lol |
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| (1626476) | |
Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually? |
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Posted by Railman718 on Sat Oct 21 00:09:04 2023, in response to Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually?, posted by randyo on Fri Oct 20 18:48:02 2023. That is correct Mistype hey it happens..No wonder OCC said "No you cant" to the George who asked permission |
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| (1626477) | |
Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually? |
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Posted by Railman718 on Sat Oct 21 00:10:09 2023, in response to Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually?, posted by Train Dude on Fri Oct 20 19:25:25 2023. If one shoe is energized all shoes are...Learned that in Schoolcar third rail Jumper training |
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Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Oct 21 00:39:48 2023, in response to Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by Joe on Thu Oct 19 19:33:58 2023. Exactly. Honestly, you'd be more likely to see two locomotives double-heading a two-car scoot consist than see a cab car sandwiched in the middle of a consist. Unlike Metro-North, every cab car counts for the LIRR. |
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| (1626479) | |
Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Oct 21 03:46:08 2023, in response to Re: Third rail power loss - What happens usually?, posted by Railman718 on Sat Oct 21 00:10:09 2023. Precisely correct |
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| (1626480) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sat Oct 21 06:21:11 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: What happens when a 12 car consist is made, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Fri Oct 20 20:53:20 2023. Wow, what a catch! First time ever seeing a commuter railroad MU tow a diesel train. I always thought they would send MP15's for this tow job.There probably were no MP-15's in Ronkonkoma yard, so they improvised. Bill M. |
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