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"Why The PATH Train Never Grew" |
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Posted by Think twice on Mon Feb 20 10:34:06 2023 Interesting blog post on the proposed Manhattan and Jersey extensions of the PATH system (formerly H&M RR)"Why The PATH Train Never Grew" https://liamoconnell.com/2022/07/08/why-the-path-train-never-grew/ 
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Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'' |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Mon Feb 20 11:15:46 2023, in response to "Why The PATH Train Never Grew", posted by Think twice on Mon Feb 20 10:34:06 2023. Whatever happend to the PA-4 cars?Could no other transit system utilize them? |
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Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'' |
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Posted by irtredbirdr33 on Mon Feb 20 13:14:27 2023, in response to Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'', posted by Avid Reader on Mon Feb 20 11:15:46 2023. Many of them are used by PATH in work service. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'' |
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Posted by Asgard on Mon Feb 20 13:21:13 2023, in response to Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'', posted by Avid Reader on Mon Feb 20 11:15:46 2023. They were probably too big for Chicago, and too small for everyplace else in North America. |
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Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'' |
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Posted by Asgard on Mon Feb 20 13:44:49 2023, in response to Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'', posted by Asgard on Mon Feb 20 13:21:13 2023. >They were probably too big for Chicago, and too small for everyplace else in North America.Sorry, I forgot about the Boston Blue Line. They might fit there. |
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Re: “Why The PATH Train Never Grew”? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Feb 20 14:43:28 2023, in response to "Why The PATH Train Never Grew", posted by Think twice on Mon Feb 20 10:34:06 2023. Running it to Plainfield would have been absurd, in retrospect. No other trains would have run on the former CNJ after that; no service to Bound Brook, Somerville or Raritan would exist. |
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Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'' |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Feb 20 14:45:57 2023, in response to Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'', posted by Avid Reader on Mon Feb 20 11:15:46 2023. Couldn't they run on IRT lines? |
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Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'' |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Feb 20 15:20:40 2023, in response to Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'', posted by Asgard on Mon Feb 20 13:44:49 2023. If they fiot the Blue, then could fit Orange as well. |
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Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'' |
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Posted by Asgard on Mon Feb 20 16:13:06 2023, in response to Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'', posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Feb 20 14:45:57 2023. As I recall, the truck centers are too different. The overhang is too much at either the middle or end of the cars |
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Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'' |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Feb 20 17:21:48 2023, in response to "Why The PATH Train Never Grew", posted by Think twice on Mon Feb 20 10:34:06 2023. While getting the tunnel; over toGCT is unlikely, I have fort years thought building the branch prepared for under 9th with a station offering transfers to both BMT at B'way and IRT at Astor thencontinuing east to Tompkins Sq Pk. would be a huge improvement. There is enough room under TSP to have layup tracks and a station. Connecting the East Villager directly to both the existing N-S trunks and if ever built SAS wopuld be beneficial. |
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Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'' |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Feb 20 17:34:50 2023, in response to Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'', posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Feb 20 17:21:48 2023. It's now only 4 short blocks from the northeast corner of the park to the L. |
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Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'' |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Feb 20 19:16:40 2023, in response to Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'', posted by AlM on Mon Feb 20 17:34:50 2023. "PATH cars can run on the IRT but are shorter--48 feet vs 51 feet. IRT cars can NOT run on PATH due to different profiles and would get stuck in the tunnels. We need a specific Sperry Car number because that car number is the only car that will fit. "From a friend who attended meetings with PATH including their control center at Journal Square and their repair shop in Harrison |
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Re: “Why The PATH Train Never Grew”? |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Feb 20 19:57:52 2023, in response to Re: “Why The PATH Train Never Grew”?, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Feb 20 14:43:28 2023. West of Elizabeth, the Port Authority would take over two of the CNJ’s four tracks, and electrify them using the third rail already used on the rest of PATH.So the other two tracks would remain available, no? |
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Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'' |
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Posted by VictorM on Mon Feb 20 20:26:10 2023, in response to Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'', posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Feb 20 19:16:40 2023. Your friend got it wrong. PATH cars are exactly the same length as IRT cars-51 feet, but the truck centers on PATH are 33 feet apart, versus 36 feet on the IRT. Also PATH cars are approx 5 inches wider at the belt line and approx 3 inches lower. |
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Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'' |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Feb 20 21:10:55 2023, in response to Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'', posted by AlM on Mon Feb 20 17:34:50 2023. One. northWest corner, Two. FWIW, my perspective is from 7th & A because I lived East of A on 7th. It was an interesting though annoying game of choosing which direction to walk--1st Ave entrance to the IND at Houston, Astor for East Side destinations, Broadway at 8th St to connect to the West Side IRT to access the Thalia for example, or take my chances at 1sr & 14th for the (what seemed like longer headwas on the LL, if I wanted an 8th Ave train.The other reason to exrend PATH to TSP is New Jersey access to the East Village. Tompkins Square is the ideal location for a terminal because one copuld excavate as necessary and then replace whatever had been removed. I luved the swings--especially late at night after music (and grass) |
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Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'' |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Tue Feb 21 07:45:59 2023, in response to Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'', posted by irtredbirdr33 on Mon Feb 20 13:14:27 2023. Any guesstimate number of "work service cars and scrapped cars.Some thoughts go to Staten Island. Night shuttle service. |
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Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'' |
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Posted by Allan on Tue Feb 21 14:00:29 2023, in response to Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'', posted by Asgard on Mon Feb 20 16:13:06 2023. You are correct, Sir. |
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Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'' |
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Posted by Allan on Tue Feb 21 14:11:57 2023, in response to Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'', posted by VictorM on Mon Feb 20 20:26:10 2023. Victor,I think his friend got something right. According to Kawasaki, a PA5 car is 15 meters long. Using a simple conversion found on the internet 15 meters equals 49.2126 feet which is definitely shorter than an IRT car (and previous PA cars) https://global.kawasaki.com/en/corp/newsroom/news/detail/?f=20180730_6487 |
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Re: “Why The PATH Train Never Grew” |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 21 18:31:19 2023, in response to Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'', posted by Avid Reader on Tue Feb 21 07:45:59 2023. Eh?PATH cars are nine inches too narrow for the SIR. |
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Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'' |
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Posted by VictorM on Tue Feb 21 22:11:33 2023, in response to Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'', posted by Allan on Tue Feb 21 14:11:57 2023. That 48 foot length could be referring to internal length, not end-to-end length. Why should a design that's worked for nearly sixty years be replaced with a smaller one? Almost all the sources I've found such as this one refer to a 51 foot length. |
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Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'' |
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Posted by Asgard on Wed Feb 22 00:40:47 2023, in response to Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'', posted by VictorM on Tue Feb 21 22:11:33 2023. The earliest black cars from around 1908 were 48 feet. I'm not sure when they switched, but the last few orders of black cars were 51. |
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Re: “Why The PATH Train Never Grew” |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Feb 22 04:50:24 2023, in response to Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'', posted by VictorM on Tue Feb 21 22:11:33 2023. Oh yes, the old map showing the unbuilt branch to the CRRNJ Terminal. |
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Re: “Why The PATH Train Never Grew”? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Feb 22 04:51:21 2023, in response to Re: “Why The PATH Train Never Grew”?, posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Feb 20 19:57:52 2023. What are you talking about? |
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Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'' |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Feb 22 22:57:40 2023, in response to Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'', posted by VictorM on Tue Feb 21 22:11:33 2023. Exactly.The old World Trade Center PATH station had a painting of a PA 1 mural opposite the escalator bank. The painting was 53ft long, about as long as the real thing. |
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Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'' |
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Posted by nh153 on Fri Feb 24 21:21:28 2023, in response to "Why The PATH Train Never Grew", posted by Think twice on Mon Feb 20 10:34:06 2023. I guess the original plan was to connect North Jersey's three biggest communities with Manhattan: Newark, Jersey City and Hoboken. But extending the PATH or Hudson Tubes to Plainfield didn't make a lot of sense. Plainfield, Scotch Plains, Cranford, Roselle Park, they aren't such urbanized communities that need frequent rapid transit.Today, it would have made sense to extend PATH up into Hudson County: Union City, West New York, etc. But I guess we're lucky we have what we have. |
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Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'' |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 24 21:46:09 2023, in response to Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'', posted by nh153 on Fri Feb 24 21:21:28 2023. The idea was to turn PATH into the equivalent of BART or WMATA. |
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Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'' |
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Posted by Think twice on Sat Feb 25 12:08:44 2023, in response to Re: ''Why The PATH Train Never Grew'', posted by nh153 on Fri Feb 24 21:21:28 2023. But I guess we're lucky we have what we haveI concur entirely. I imagine some parallel universe where the PATH never got built, and ended up just a pipe dream like some other subway/metro plans throughout history. |
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