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| WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life (1571592) | |
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WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Mon Mar 22 08:25:57 2021 DC’s upcoming Metro Bar lets you drink inside old Metro trainJason Fraley WTOP FM 103.5 03 22 2021 0335 John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Mar 22 11:23:33 2021, in response to WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Sand Box John on Mon Mar 22 08:25:57 2021. We were able to buy these cars from Metro for something that was reasonable.Cars as in plural ? I see one car in the drawing, are more cars scheduled for more locations ? Bill Newkirk |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Mar 22 14:27:35 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Mar 22 11:23:33 2021. I am wondering the same thing. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 22 14:29:49 2021, in response to WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Sand Box John on Mon Mar 22 08:25:57 2021. What was so horrible about the 5K's that they had to scrap them ? |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Mar 22 15:30:07 2021, in response to WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Sand Box John on Mon Mar 22 08:25:57 2021. Love this story!!! Even better than the Golden's Deli car, as this one will be situated next to an active station.I wish them all the best. And I hope the Golden's Car finds a good home! |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Mar 22 15:32:38 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 22 14:29:49 2021. I just looked 'em up- they came on in 2001, and the 6000s in 2006. That's some seriously short service life... |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Mar 22 15:43:24 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Mar 22 15:30:07 2021. I wish them all the best. And I hope the Golden's Car finds a good home!It did find a home. A private party purchased it and had it trucked to his home somewhere in upstate NY. It was reported here a while back. Bill Newkirk |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Mar 22 15:44:48 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 22 14:29:49 2021. What was so horrible about the 5K's that they had to scrap them ?Sand Box John may provide your answer. Something tells me poor MDBF. Bill Newkirk |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by R46 5636 on Mon Mar 22 17:39:55 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Mar 22 15:44:48 2021. Had something to do with plans to mid-life overhaul the 5000 series however extending the new 7000 series order at the time to replace them instead was cheaper. |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Mon Mar 22 21:25:36 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 22 14:29:49 2021. What was so horrible about the 5K's that they had to scrap them ?The scrapping of the 4 and 5k cars had to do with the cost of upgrading their crash worthiness. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Mar 22 23:36:51 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Mar 22 11:23:33 2021. The bar owner has the other car in this pair as well IINM. |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Mar 23 06:45:54 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Sand Box John on Mon Mar 22 21:25:36 2021. What will become of the 6K's ? |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by R46 5636 on Tue Mar 23 07:57:08 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Joe V on Tue Mar 23 06:45:54 2021. There's an option to extend the 8k order into replacing the 6k series although recent major issues with the 6k fleet such as decoupling have been corrected apparently. (Decoupling was due to an incorrect part used within the linking mechanism) |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Mar 23 08:01:16 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by R46 5636 on Tue Mar 23 07:57:08 2021. Would the 6K's have the same structural deficiencies of the prior classes ?I think a WMATA-like car would have been nicer for SIR than R211's, though they would require a mostly differing spare parts stream. |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Tue Mar 23 09:07:07 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Joe V on Tue Mar 23 08:01:16 2021. What are the ages of the 5K's and 6K's compared to the SIR R46 and R47's?Considering that the R211 Sir cars will be last to be produced, why knot give the 5K's and 6K's a test on The Isle of Staten? Maybe the 5K and/or 6K's could temporarily fill in the GAP? The prematurely PATH cars would have served well on S.I. I'm ready for the assaults'! |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Mar 23 09:17:47 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Avid Reader on Tue Mar 23 09:07:07 2021. Need to modify for a railway type signal system. Floor height may be too low, but I don't know. Anti-climbers should be same height as R44's in case of a collision.The PA4's would have been too skinny, of IRT width. A few could have been good self-propelled work cars though. The 5K's were around from 2001-04 to 2018. Almost all were scrapped, save 6 cars. The 6K's came along in 2006. |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Tue Mar 23 09:30:23 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Joe V on Tue Mar 23 09:17:47 2021. As seen here PATH WAMTA 
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Tue Mar 23 09:51:41 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Joe V on Tue Mar 23 08:01:16 2021. Would the 6K's have the same structural deficiencies of the prior classes ?All car series are / were more crash worthy then the proceeding car series. The 6k cars are closer to 5k cars in crash worthiness then are to the 7k cars. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by R46 5636 on Tue Mar 23 10:25:34 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Avid Reader on Tue Mar 23 09:07:07 2021. Since 2011 I've always argued the PA-4 fleet should have been simply sent to the Staten Island Railway for service to push out those poor 44s. A whole decade later and somehow those things still manage to run. Then again, nothing compares to a fleet in horrid condition like Boston's Orange Line Hawkers with literal rust holes duct taped over and some pairs completely mechanically dead and worn out. (Doesn't help the fact their replacement fleet has been taken OOS again too).I heard somewhere there was talk about the PA-4s being sent to SIR however there were specific issues such as train / platform height inconsistenties and other incompatiblies that were insensible or over costly to make happen, while also Port Authority intending to use the fleet for work service. The closest they got was the A/C units (or parts of) from some PA-4s were sent to or purchased by NYCT or SIR. There was an official MTA document on this which now I'll have to look for (or hopefully someone else knows more about this oddity). |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Mar 23 10:54:38 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by R46 5636 on Tue Mar 23 10:25:34 2021. 10 years ago, I would have retained 26 more R32's, modified 20 R46's or R68's for Staten Island, and they could have covered all off-peak service with a train set to spare. Remaining R44's could have all slept except rush hours.PATH also hated their Hawker PA3's structurally, wanted them gone before the old St Louis cars. Any PATH car would have had gapping issue on SIR, like an IRT car on the B Division. |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Mar 23 11:18:21 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Joe V on Tue Mar 23 09:17:47 2021. A few could have been good self-propelled work cars though.That's exactly what at least a few of them have been used for. |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Mar 23 11:30:58 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by 3-9 on Tue Mar 23 11:18:21 2021. But not on SIR |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Mar 23 11:31:50 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Joe V on Tue Mar 23 10:54:38 2021. Any PATH car would have had gapping issue on SIR, like an IRT car on the B Division.That could have been be easily dealt with by extending the plates in front of the doors. |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Mar 23 11:34:12 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Joe V on Tue Mar 23 11:30:58 2021. No, only within the PATH system. If you want to see them, you can hang out at Hoboken at around 11PM to 12 midnight when the work trains are being staged. |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by R46 5636 on Tue Mar 23 11:47:04 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Joe V on Tue Mar 23 10:54:38 2021. That's very interesting to learn about the PA-3's, again considering the Boston Orange Line has basically the same exact trains but a longer car length.I'm honestly curious to know just how compromised those Boston Hawkers are structurally and mechanically, especially considering PATH wanting their PA-3s gone first. Boston's former Blue Line cars were actually built from the PA-3 contract and are technically PA-3s; same dimensions and everything. In 2009 they were replaced because of structural issues. I can't imagine how deteriorated the Orange Hawkers have gotten to at this point. |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Mar 23 11:59:52 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by 3-9 on Tue Mar 23 11:34:12 2021. They are laying all around Journal Square |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Mar 23 12:01:46 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by 3-9 on Tue Mar 23 11:31:50 2021. That leads to otehr dangers of those riding outside on threshold plates, and gapping on a crowded platform. They would have needed skirts for the entire car length like the Lo-V's and Type C's got. |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Mar 23 12:02:51 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by R46 5636 on Tue Mar 23 11:47:04 2021. Thwe rumors I heard is that if they coupled a PA3 too hard, they would have trouble getting a door indication. |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Mar 23 12:08:29 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Avid Reader on Tue Mar 23 09:30:23 2021. Where was the location of the top photo ? I see cars with red stripes in the background.Bill Newkirk |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Mar 23 18:04:26 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Joe V on Tue Mar 23 12:01:46 2021. That would have been doable. |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Mar 23 21:26:33 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Joe V on Tue Mar 23 09:17:47 2021. Wow. I said it before, and I'll say it again....Those 5K and 6K cars sure had some short lives... |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Mar 23 21:29:33 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Joe V on Tue Mar 23 11:30:58 2021. In my memory, SIR has never used electric work trains of any kind. They had the ALCO locomotives, then they borrowed one from NYCT, and now they have the Brookviles.They also have an X-R21/22 rider car. |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 24 06:49:16 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Mar 23 21:26:33 2021. Story is not over for the WMATA 6K's (yet).TTC H-6 cars were also put to a pre-mature death. I think they are 4" too fat for any use here, and they are not standard gauge. |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Wed Mar 24 07:55:18 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Mar 23 21:26:33 2021. Wow. I said it before, and I'll say it again....Those 5K and 6K cars sure had some short lives... The suits on WMATA's staff advised the Board of Directors that the cost of upgrading the crash worthiness of the 4 and 5k cars as part of their mid life rehabilitation would be roughly the same as replaceing them with new. The mid life rehabilitated cars would last another 20 years. The new cars that replaced them will last 40 years. Original 7k procurement schema. 64 cars Phase I Silver line (4 cars prototype development and testing). 64 cars Phase II Silver line. 100 4k cars mid life rehabilitation (Rehabilitation to make 4k cars compatible with 7k cars). 300 cars to replace 1k cars. 220 cars fleet growth. Total 648 7k cars, 100 rehabilitated 4k cars, Total 748 cars. Total fleet growth 220 cars. Modified 7k procurement schema. 64 cars Phase I Silver line (4 cars prototype development and testing). 64 cars Phase II Silver line. 300 cars to replace 1k cars. 100 cars to replace 4k cars. 192 cars to replace 5k cars. 28 cars fleet growth. Total 748 7k cars. Total fleet growth 28 cars. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 24 08:01:35 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Sand Box John on Wed Mar 24 07:55:18 2021. That's a classical capital budgeting exercise any Finance student would encounter, determine capital expense through equalizing lives of assets. The 7K's won. It maye have been a waste of money to rebuild some of the IRT Redbirds, like R26-R29. For the money they spent on them, only to last another 15 years, they could have bought more R62's from Budd to last 45 years, even if the initial cost is double the cost of rebuilding, new car life would be triple of the rebuilt car. |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Wed Mar 24 12:29:17 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by 3-9 on Tue Mar 23 11:31:50 2021. I'm in agreement with this post, but do the length of the platform. |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Wed Mar 24 12:38:19 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 24 06:49:16 2021. Too fat by 4"? How wide are they?Not Standard gauge? Really? What is it, if you know? |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Wed Mar 24 13:06:17 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Mar 23 12:08:29 2021. Give me some time, and I'll try to see what i can find. |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Wed Mar 24 13:08:58 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Avid Reader on Wed Mar 24 13:06:17 2021. I didn't have a location, but, and I'm guessing here, with the lack of a car number, I'm thinking it was near the point of manufacture. |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 24 13:30:56 2021, in response to Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Avid Reader on Wed Mar 24 12:38:19 2021. The subway and most trolley lines are 4 ft 10 7⁄8"The subway cars are 10 ft 3 5⁄8 in" wide |
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Re: WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Mar 25 21:02:27 2021, in response to WMATA 5k Car Get's A Second Life, posted by Sand Box John on Mon Mar 22 08:25:57 2021. Maybe they should have spent the full 40 years in service... |
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