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| VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line (1547907) | |
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VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 19 11:52:51 2020 |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by italianguyinsi on Tue May 19 12:13:04 2020, in response to VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 19 11:52:51 2020. Excellent - any reason for the 7 car MU las hup as opposed to a 4, 6 or 8? |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 19 12:38:53 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by italianguyinsi on Tue May 19 12:13:04 2020. SIngle units, and 7 60' footers probably closely matched the length of a typical 6 car set of BMT A/B's. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue May 19 13:07:49 2020, in response to VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 19 11:52:51 2020. How come they only built 10 of these cars? |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue May 19 13:31:26 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by Elkeeper on Tue May 19 13:07:49 2020. Experimental.Just like 1 train each of R110A & R110B. |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by randyo on Tue May 19 14:02:08 2020, in response to VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 19 11:52:51 2020. At the time the video was made, the cars weren't exactly brand new since they had already been retrofitted with the porthole storm door window. As delivered, the cars had a rectangular R-10 style window. |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by randyo on Tue May 19 14:04:35 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by randyo on Tue May 19 14:02:08 2020. Interesting note. The cars did have signs for 14 St/Fulton but I have always wondered whether they would have been light enough to actually operate on the old portion of the Fulton St el in that service. |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 19 14:07:57 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by randyo on Tue May 19 14:04:35 2020. Did that section of the Fulton El use subway or elevated style third rail? |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Tue May 19 14:21:09 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by Elkeeper on Tue May 19 13:07:49 2020. The "million dollar train" as it was called were prototypes for the Second Avenue Subway.--Mark |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue May 19 14:44:25 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Tue May 19 14:21:09 2020. I knew that. Just wondered why they did not build more of them. They looked a lot better than those shitty R-16's. |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by italianguyinsi on Tue May 19 15:26:50 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 19 12:38:53 2020. Makes sense, Thanks. |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue May 19 15:29:08 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by Elkeeper on Tue May 19 14:44:25 2020. good question. some ignorant guy didn't get that stainless steel was a better material. |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue May 19 15:29:49 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 19 12:38:53 2020. Weren't the other three R-11 cars used on the Franklin Shuttle? |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by randyo on Tue May 19 16:28:59 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 19 14:07:57 2020. Elevated, but even so, the Multis with subway 3rd rail were able to run there. |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by randyo on Tue May 19 16:29:49 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by randyo on Tue May 19 16:28:59 2020. That should subway 3rd rail shoes. |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue May 19 18:21:20 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by Elkeeper on Tue May 19 14:44:25 2020. Mike: The R-11's were built as prototypes of a fleet or 200 or 400 cars to run on the Second Avenue subway. One the subway fell through they decided not to proceed with ordering the rest of the cars. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue May 19 18:29:47 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue May 19 18:21:20 2020. Then they went with R16's.Perhaps has the 2nd Avenue subway been built in the 1050's, the R16 order would have been for 500 cars. God help us. |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Tue May 19 18:39:04 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue May 19 18:21:20 2020. Why did the SAS plans fall through in the 1950's? I know about the Beame Shuffle in the 1970's, was it a similar form of money skimming? |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue May 19 18:46:07 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue May 19 18:39:04 2020. The money was diverted to other projects. These included buying new cars, the Rockaway Branch, the DeKalb Ave rehab, lengthening platforms. |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue May 19 18:58:52 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by Elkeeper on Tue May 19 15:29:49 2020. Weren't the other three R-11 cars used on the Franklin Shuttle?That film was sometime in the 1950's. The R-11's didn't show on the Franklin Shuttle till about 1965. Bill Newkirk |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue May 19 19:25:18 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by italianguyinsi on Tue May 19 15:26:50 2020. I rode on 7-car R-7/9 trains on that line on Saturdays in 1969-70. |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue May 19 19:26:52 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue May 19 18:46:07 2020. Not to mention shoring up the rest of the system. |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue May 19 20:10:26 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue May 19 18:39:04 2020. supposedly massive deferred maintenance AND retaining a cheap fare. Which is to say that as with every other transit system post WWII there was a shortage of money for necessities let alone promised upgrades. |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue May 19 20:29:45 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue May 19 18:21:20 2020. 400 car order.500 Million dollars went pretty far, but not far enough to build the line how the TA wanted to. Didn't look like they lobbied all that hard. If you can start to build a route under a important row... like Madison Ave...then just drop the project out of the blue.. Start a Utica AV subway across Atlantic,then pull out.. The City did a lot of these projects,then quit. The remaining funds went to other use. In fact, it Should have been the starter fund for the SaS Water st branch, which included the Christie street cut. Yeah,it was a little over 112 million, but still. |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed May 20 07:23:29 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by Joe V on Tue May 19 18:29:47 2020. Then they went with R16's. At the time the R-16's arrived American Car and Foundry had built the majority of cars on the subway system. They were a good car builder with a proving record. The ACF cars that followed the R-16's were the IRT's R-26 and R-28 which gave good service for many years and eventually became "adopted" Redbirds. One is left to wonder what was wrong with the r-16's. They certainly did not like cold weather. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by zac on Wed May 20 10:06:30 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed May 20 07:23:29 2020. The R16s had the fate of being used on mostly outdoor lines, unlike the R17/21/22/26/28. Maybe if they'd been used on the 14th/Canarsie they'd have worked out better. But we only think about the first 12 or so years of use. After Chrystie they went all over and still were pretty poor.I remember when they showed up on the QJ and I couldn't believe that these cars were so bad compared to the R27/30s that mostly ran there. It also seemed like getting the R1s on the D was pretty bad too. The Brighton line was all R27/30/32 before Chrystie. |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Wed May 20 13:25:38 2020, in response to VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 19 11:52:51 2020. AWESOME!!!!!! |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by randyo on Wed May 20 16:32:27 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by zac on Wed May 20 10:06:30 2020. Well, electrically and mechanically, the closest IRT cars to the R-16s were the R-15s which were also ACF and had door equipment by the same manufacturer as the R-16s, National Pneumatic (even though the doors were all electric) I hadn’t heard any unfavorable reports about their performance even though for the first 15 years or so of their service life they were on a mostly outdoor line. |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed May 20 18:32:44 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by randyo on Wed May 20 16:32:27 2020. I read somewhere that the door pockets on the R-16s were cork-lined, and this cork would swell up when wet. |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed May 20 23:02:23 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue May 19 18:39:04 2020. The deferred maintenance went back to WWII. The ten cent fare in 1948 did little to help finances. Luckily, the IND to Euclid Ave was able to be finished the same year, and new subway cars were ordered. But that was about it. Demolitions were even staggered to save money. Bergen cutoff in 1949-50, 3rd Ave South Ferry spur in 1951, and the Lexington el, but only from Broadway to Greene/Grand Ave, instead of all the way to Grand/Myrtle. The City could not even afford to relocate the power cables underground on Grand Ave until Jan, 1953. So, the 2nd Ave bonding monies were hijacked to finish the post-war projects like the Culver and Rockaway connections. |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by randyo on Wed May 20 23:13:05 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed May 20 18:32:44 2020. That's another story I heard but if that were the case, then why wasn’t the cork lining simply removed? |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Express Rider on Thu May 21 00:23:57 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by Elkeeper on Wed May 20 23:02:23 2020. The annual report IIRC, or rather the TA's ten year annual report 1953-1963 - the one with the dark green almost blue covers, details many of the projects completed or in progress at the time: new cars ordered, florescent light installation, platform lengthening, etc. plus the Dekalb Ave. area reconstruction, and IIRC, the renovation/ widening of the 72nd St. station on Broadway. |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Express Rider on Thu May 21 00:24:33 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by Express Rider on Thu May 21 00:23:57 2020. Or was it the 96th & Bway. express station (?), or maybe both stations. |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by gbs on Thu May 21 02:20:29 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by randyo on Tue May 19 14:04:35 2020. Why were the route signs on the bulkheads blank? The destination signs were set correctly and the side signs had the correct settings. Did the route scrolls in the bulkheads not have the Canarsie number? |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu May 21 06:44:17 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed May 20 18:32:44 2020. I read somewhere that the door pockets on the R-16s were cork-lined, and this cork would swell up when wet.Insulation, instead of asbestos ? Bill Newkirk |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by zac on Thu May 21 07:59:30 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by Express Rider on Thu May 21 00:24:33 2020. 72nd wasn't modified until much more recently and I believe only a new entrance was built so that crowds could exit the platforms. |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu May 21 10:26:48 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue May 19 18:21:20 2020. Given the BMT car shortage a 200 car order would have made sense even without the SAS. |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu May 21 10:31:55 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by randyo on Wed May 20 16:32:27 2020. Perhaps ENY was just negligent in their care. |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu May 21 10:33:34 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue May 19 18:39:04 2020. After WWII the system was in desperate need of rehab and the money was shifted to existing lines. |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by Express Rider on Thu May 21 17:37:12 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by zac on Thu May 21 07:59:30 2020. Thanks for the memory jog - the new entrance IIRC was built at the north end of the station. |
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Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line |
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Posted by qveensboro_plaza on Thu May 21 19:05:05 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by zac on Thu May 21 07:59:30 2020. The renovation was more than just the headhouse. The original platform design had narrow ends, and with just the narrow original exit stairs, crowding had become a problem.The uptown local track was realigned in order to extend and straighten that platform. The downtown platform was also extended, and although it still has a narrow front end, local and express trains have different stopping positions which helps to alleviate crowding at the front end. |
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72 St headhouses |
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Posted by gbs on Sat May 23 22:11:27 2020, in response to Re: VIDEO: New R11's in service on Canarsie line, posted by zac on Thu May 21 07:59:30 2020. As constructed in 1904, the only entrances and exits were through the original headhouse on the south side of 72 St (with what have to be the narrowest staircases between the street and platforms in the entire system). Then in 2002 the much larger new headhouse was opened north of 72 St, with wider stairs and elevators. The original 1904 headhouse (still in use):  Looking north through the original headhouse to the new one across the street:  The new headhouse: 
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Re: 72 St headhouses |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun May 24 07:35:34 2020, in response to 72 St headhouses, posted by gbs on Sat May 23 22:11:27 2020. One of the few four-track express stations situated directly below the street surface. |
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Re: 72 St headhouses |
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Posted by qveensboro_plaza on Sun May 24 09:07:53 2020, in response to Re: 72 St headhouses, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun May 24 07:35:34 2020. One of the few four-track express stations situated directly below the street surface.Apparently there is an extensive bed of Manhattan schist located around the intersection of 72nd Street and Broadway, and it would have required massive blasting to remove it, Since by the early 1900s the area had already been developed, it was decided to minimize the risk of dynamiting and route tunnel closer to the surface. You can still see today that 71st between Broadway and West End has a noticeable rise and drop, while the adjacent blocks of 70th and 72nd streets are level. |
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Re: 72 St headhouses |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sun May 24 10:01:48 2020, in response to Re: 72 St headhouses, posted by qveensboro_plaza on Sun May 24 09:07:53 2020. But most stations on the original subway, including all underground stations north of Times Square to 145 St. on both Broadway and Lenox Ave., were built just one level down from the street. 116 St./Broadway now has a small mezzanine for fare control, but it didn't always. (I think the original configuration of Times Square should be included too, as well as 157 St./Broadway.) 96th St./Broadway, another express station on the line, also lacks a mezzanine between street level and platform level, and always did. |
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Re: 72 St headhouses |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun May 24 12:58:49 2020, in response to Re: 72 St headhouses, posted by Dyre Dan on Sun May 24 10:01:48 2020. Local stops on the BMT Broadway line were built that way, too. |
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