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| (1529251) | |
MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Nov 6 11:30:13 2019  The Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA) Fiscal and Management Control Board this week voted to electrify its commuter-rail fleet and increase service frequency. The board adopted a resolution that instructs MBTA officials to prepare immediately to launch electrified pilot programs on the Providence/Stoughton Line, the Fairmount Line, and a section of the Newburyport/Rockport Line connecting Boston to Lynn, Revere, Chelsea and Everett, local media reported yesterday. MBTA General Manager Steve Poftak said it could take two to four years to acquire electric trains for the programs, according to the report. The electrification plan is expected to cost billions, with some alternatives costing $10.6 billion and $28.9 billion, according to the report. The board also adopted resolutions calling for the implementation of 15-minute headways between key rail stations. Progressive Railroading ROAR |
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Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Wed Nov 6 13:17:34 2019, in response to MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Nov 6 11:30:13 2019. There must be a typo, the dateline should read 1919 not 2019 in this article. |
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Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Nov 6 14:12:49 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Wed Nov 6 13:17:34 2019. What are you talking about? |
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Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by nasadowsk on Wed Nov 6 14:24:56 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Nov 6 14:12:49 2019. They should have fucking wired it up a century ago.METRA's the other one that should be all electric already... |
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Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Nov 6 14:44:18 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by nasadowsk on Wed Nov 6 14:24:56 2019. better late than never. Other than the mini services like Nashville, they all should go electric. Certainly VRE on the RF&P as the wires should go at least to Richmond for NEC services. Once that happens, MARC on CSX, andVRE on NS sould follow. |
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Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Nov 6 17:41:33 2019, in response to MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Nov 6 11:30:13 2019. It sounds from the article that the MBTA is planning the order some sort of EMUs to replace the locomotive hauled trains rather than electric locos to pull what are nw diesel hauled trains. Now I just wonder what sort of cars they might be. If the lines are all high platform then something along the lines of the M8s would be lilely. Otherwise they could be more along the lines of the Silverliner Vs. |
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| (1529283) | |
Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Nov 6 19:01:05 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by randyo on Wed Nov 6 17:41:33 2019. If they are smart (good luck) an add on order to whatever is in production when they actually are ready to buy should be the idea.IINM Rotem (SLVs) has exited the market. However, given that Denver has clones, maybe the two agencies can get better pricing on a joint order. The Denver cars serve high platforms--at least what I saw at Denver Union from the adjacent Amtrak platform in September. |
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| (1529289) | |
Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Nov 6 20:35:17 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Nov 6 19:01:05 2019. They might go in on NJT's MultiLevel EMU order - they want to go all bilevel. There is a limitation in their signal system on several lines that keeps headways from getting shorter than 8 minutes. Or, since they have an extra foot of height to work with, a custom design similar to what they have in Sydney (those are in 4 car sets).Denver does indeed have all high level platforms for commuter rail, so they did not follow SEPTA in having long doors. If MBTA wants to go single level, they, RTD, and Metro-North can all share a car. There's also another large-scale electrification underway for Toronto which could have something interesting. In the interim they can buy some ACS-64s, with only 6 Kawasaki/Rotem bilevels there would be a notable acceleration improvement even without going EMU. |
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| (1529307) | |
Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Nov 7 07:03:33 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Nov 6 20:35:17 2019. There's also Euro-style bi-level EMUs to go into service on Caltran. |
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| (1529333) | |
Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Nov 7 15:16:55 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Nov 6 20:35:17 2019. *In the interim they can buy some ACS-64s, with only 6 Kawasaki/Rotem bilevels there would be a notable acceleration improvement even without going EMU*I wish I had the link for this, but from what somebody wrote some time ago about electrification, for the money that one spends on the entire process, it actually doesn't make that much sense to electrify and go with locomotive hauled units because while the acceleration gains are there, they're almost depressing compared to what a *good* multiple unit can deliver. *if MBTA wants to go single level, they, RTD, and Metro-North can all share a car.* I suspect they'd be better off paying Stadler to come up with a high floor version of the Flirt design from Europe. They've already made a high floor version for the UK, but their loading gauge is a bit narrow compared to us. Thankfully, Stadler's core designs are rather flexible, and they have a US plant in Utah. :-) |
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Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Nov 7 18:03:29 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Nov 7 15:16:55 2019. Well, they're blowing eighteen times more than what would be spent on a new high-speed rail line (per mile), so on that score there's no excuse to not include EMUs and the associated upgrades of service facilities, blah blah blah . . . but if costs were within reason, then converting push-pull trains to electric from diesel would make lots of sense, including the fact that they'd out-accelerate the equivalent push-pull diesel train. |
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Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by K. Trout on Sat Nov 9 12:55:46 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Nov 6 14:12:49 2019. Had the New Haven not built the NYW&B, they likely would have had the cash to electrify the mainline from New Haven to Boston. |
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Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Nov 9 19:28:42 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by K. Trout on Sat Nov 9 12:55:46 2019. That's a stretch to presume.And there's no guarantee that even if they wanted to electrify into Boston, they'd do it to the Shore Line. |
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Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Nov 9 19:29:47 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by randyo on Wed Nov 6 17:41:33 2019. If the lines are all high platformWhy would they do that for EMUs if they haven't done it for diesel lines? Why indeed did they build any high platforms? |
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Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 11 01:05:24 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Nov 9 19:28:42 2019. The NH (now Amtrak) mainline is already electrified to Boston. |
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Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 11 01:06:49 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Nov 9 19:29:47 2019. I’m not saying they would, I’m just opining what type of rolling stock could be used depending on the existence or non existence of high platforms. |
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Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 11 05:05:39 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by randyo on Mon Nov 11 01:05:24 2019. Not on all tracks. The T is obliged to use diesel to stop at all Providence Line stations. |
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| (1529721) | |
Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 11 05:12:27 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by randyo on Mon Nov 11 01:06:49 2019. Why would that dictate anything at all?LIRR has all high platforms now no matter whether electric or diesel. SEPTA keeps their low platforms and is all electric. No way to call. |
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Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Nov 11 07:35:53 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 11 05:12:27 2019. SEPTA keeps their low platforms and is all electric.Septa has low and high platforms. |
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| (1529728) | |
Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 11 08:46:42 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 11 05:05:39 2019. More like they don't want to pay Amtrak's electric rates. Neither does MARC. |
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Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 11 10:41:48 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 11 08:46:42 2019. MARC doesn't want to run a decent service on the Penn Line either. |
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| (1529735) | |
Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 11 10:43:25 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 11 08:46:42 2019. PS. The NEC within Massachusetts borders is not owned by Amtrak, but by the commonwealth. |
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| (1529736) | |
Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 11 10:44:36 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Nov 11 07:35:53 2019. Right. They are in no rush to go with all high platforms. |
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| (1529756) | |
Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 11 12:03:55 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 11 10:43:25 2019. Who owns the electricity ? DO you think MBTA is selling it to Amtrak ? I don't think so. |
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| (1529757) | |
Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Nov 11 12:58:10 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 11 10:44:36 2019. Malvern station on the Paoli-Thorndale line was reconstructed with ADA ramps, but kept as a low platform. The Paoli station has been changed to a complete ADA station with elevators leading to high a platform, (they had to tear out the 2 center tracks to do this). Exton is almost finished with ADA ramps and high platforms. Wayne has been a high platform for a long time.I'm only familiar in part for the Paoli-Thorndaleline I ride it at least twice year, it I have a suitcase , and I have to park at Malvern , Paoli is too crowded , and No service past Malvern on Sunday, I need help getting the suitcase on and off the train.That includes putting it up in the luggage rack and getting it down at my stop. I ride Septa to get to 30th St. Amtrak,(all high platforms,Septa and Amtrak)to ride to NC to see my family. Amtrak checks your bag for free. I would much rather just use all high platforms, just getting on and off the train, I have to very careful with low platforms. |
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Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 11 13:25:27 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 11 12:03:55 2019. Whoever owns the infrastructure would be the ones dealing with electricity providers; the switch to 25kW 60Hz was to facilitate buying from outside commercial electricity suppliers. If Amtrak owns the wires and Massachusetts the railroad, there is some arrangement there; it's not the same as the former PRR where Amtrak even generates the power and owns everything. |
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Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 11 13:29:40 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Nov 11 12:58:10 2019. They destroyed Paoli; it's useless as a through station now. (And that's also Amtrak's RR.)High platforms require straight stretches of track to minimize gaps, which people can and do fall into. Would have been better to build newer trains for low platforms. |
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Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 11 17:32:45 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Nov 6 20:35:17 2019. Denver does indeed have all high level platforms for commuter rail, so they did not follow SEPTA in having long doorsThey also now have segregated platforms at Union Station as a result; less flexibility. There's also another large-scale electrification underway for Toronto which could have something interesting If the graphic below is representative of GO Transit RER, then it's looking like a low-platform bilevel EMU.  |
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Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 11 18:55:02 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 11 13:29:40 2019. Amtrak has never in 48 years bypassed Paoli, even when their Broadway Ltd was in its glory. |
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Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 11 19:03:34 2019, in response to Re: MBTA board calls for commuter-rail electrification, posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 11 18:55:02 2019. Says more about Amtrak than the potential of service through Paoli that they stymied. |
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